Thread About Ex Player

[EanieMeany]

"Defensive full-backs" are shan by definition because for decades now full-backs have been expected to cross the halfway line.

 

Agreed. Says a lot about our status in the world when people are pining for the likes of Michael bloody Doyle.

[irnbru]

Agreed. Says a lot about our status in the world when people are pining for the likes of Michael bloody Doyle.

He's a decent, but limited, player at this level. If players didn't have limitations then they would be at a higher level.

 

Doyle's limitations going forward were offset by his definesive ability and workrate whereas others in the same position are more even in what they offer.

[vikingTON]

He's a decent, but limited, player at this level. If players didn't have limitations then they would be at a higher level.

 

Thanks for that revelation, Captain Obvious. But Doyle is isn't anywhere near the best in his position of all the limited players at this level; which makes him a useless first team option for any club with serious aspirations of winning promotion. 

 

Which is why he's now at Queen of the South instead. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by vikingTON

[TRVMP]

People were making this excuse for Kevin Finlayson at the time, and I say this with confidence because I was one of those people. Unless you're trying to Alloa your way to 9th, the inability to play a final ball will cripple any fullback at this level. I don't think any full-time footballer should be unable to cross a ball.

[irnbru]

People were making this excuse for Kevin Finlayson at the time, and I say this with confidence because I was one of those people. Unless you're trying to Alloa your way to 9th, the inability to play a final ball will cripple any fullback at this level. I don't think any full-time footballer should be unable to cross a ball.

My point was really that he is better than average in some parts and below in others. The full backs now are probably jusy average at everything if we're being honest.

 

It's down to a manager how they structure their team and what they prefer so writing off Doyle completely at this level is wrong.

[EanieMeany]

People were making this excuse for Kevin Finlayson at the time, and I say this with confidence because I was one of those people. Unless you're trying to Alloa your way to 9th, the inability to play a final ball will cripple any fullback at this level. I don't think any full-time footballer should be unable to cross a ball.

 

Yep. If you want a defender at full-back there'll be somebody better and if you want a full-back who can actually cross the half-way line and make a positive contribution then there's somebody better. It's also pretty questionable whether or not you can be a good defender if you keep giving the ball away all the time with spaces in behind you - it's 2018 and pretty much everybody wants full-backs who can get up and down the line.

 

A passable player for a mediocre Duffy team Doyle may be, but if Morton have any genuine aspirations of progress then guys like Doyle are not good enough not matter how nice they are.

[TRVMP]

My point was really that he is better than average in some parts and below in others. The full backs now are probably jusy average at everything if we're being honest.

It's down to a manager how they structure their team and what they prefer so writing off Doyle completely at this level is wrong.

With the exception of a team that's going to play ten behind the ball for 90 minutes, nobody would *willingly* choose a full-back who can't dribble or play the ball forward. Such a player's deficiencies can be mitigated by either an exceptional right-sided player just ahead of him (who can drop back and take the ball to feet, preferably) or some other out-ball, like a deep-lying midfielder with pace. These players are also very hard to come by at this level, as these are exceptional abilities even at the top of the game. So I can well understand why guys like Doyle get full-time gigs.

 

To be clear, I'm honestly not knocking him. Even people who've played to an alright amateur level sorely underestimate how hard the pro game is, in my opinion, because at the pro level you don't have time to plan anything. Your man on is always bearing down on you. So not only do you need to have the natural ability and swiftness and intelligence to deal with that, but you also have to be fit, to have stuck at training for a decade or more, to have maybe spurned other opportunities in the hope of grinding out 300 quid a week getting screamed at by jakes.

 

My point, rather, is that full-time teams will 99 times out of 100 take the full package when it's available, rather than a 'limited' player. It's for the exact same reason that the 'utility man' - a squad position known well into the late 90s - has all but died out. The great paradox of modern football is that positions are simultaneously more specialized while also demanding more flexibility. Even the no-nonsense center-back is going to be a thing of the past at the elite level soon because the pace of the game is rising ever upward, so if your only recourse to man-on pressure is Row Z then you're on your way down the pyramid.

 

I'm rambling a bit here but basically Doyle is shan.

[irnbru]

With the exception of a team that's going to play ten behind the ball for 90 minutes, nobody would *willingly* choose a full-back who can't dribble or play the ball forward. Such a player's deficiencies can be mitigated by either an exceptional right-sided player just ahead of him (who can drop back and take the ball to feet, preferably) or some other out-ball, like a deep-lying midfielder with pace. These players are also very hard to come by at this level, as these are exceptional abilities even at the top of the game. So I can well understand why guys like Doyle get full-time gigs.

 

To be clear, I'm honestly not knocking him. Even people who've played to an alright amateur level sorely underestimate how hard the pro game is, in my opinion, because at the pro level you don't have time to plan anything. Your man on is always bearing down on you. So not only do you need to have the natural ability and swiftness and intelligence to deal with that, but you also have to be fit, to have stuck at training for a decade or more, to have maybe spurned other opportunities in the hope of grinding out 300 quid a week getting screamed at by jakes.

 

My point, rather, is that full-time teams will 99 times out of 100 take the full package when it's available, rather than a 'limited' player. It's for the exact same reason that the 'utility man' - a squad position known well into the late 90s - has all but died out. The great paradox of modern football is that positions are simultaneously more specialized while also demanding more flexibility. Even the no-nonsense center-back is going to be a thing of the past at the elite level soon because the pace of the game is rising ever upward, so if your only recourse to man-on pressure is Row Z then you're on your way down the pyramid.

 

I'm rambling a bit here but basically Doyle is shan.

Nah I don't agree. He had energy to get up and down the park both with and without the ball and doing that meant the opposite full back didn't get a chance to push as high as they might.

 

He isn't a great player but a decent mid table championship one.

[irnbru]

BTW I'm not suggesting we should have kept him, just that he had his qualities and isn't a terrible player. He'll get a few more years as a full time player before dropping down the leagues.

[BishopBrennan]

Given how badly Kilday has regressed since his recovery from injury, I'd much rather have Doyle covering between right back and centre back ahead of Kilday. Both players who have their strengths and weaknesses but at the moment Doyle is comfortably better. 

[Hej]

Given how badly Kilday has regressed since his recovery from injury, I'd much rather have Doyle covering between right back and centre back ahead of Kilday. Both players who have their strengths and weaknesses but at the moment Doyle is comfortably better. 

 

It's fine, we have Tumilty who is much better than both.

[irnbru]

It's fine, we have Tumilty who is much better than both.

He's been rotten in a few games too.

[Deego]

Kilday looks the same player to me as he was pre-injury. What exactly do people think has changed in him?

[HamCam]

Kilday looks the same player to me as he was pre-injury. What exactly do people think has changed in him?

Has he had a haircut?

[El gofer]

He looks so much more comfortable in a back 3 than he has this season at rulught back or right centre back in a 4.

[El gofer]

Interesting piece in WSC from Bradford City fan perspective.

Either Hopkin did no due diligence on the club he was joining it was desperate for the gig.

Refers to his preferred direct playing style!

[El gofer]

Can't seem to be able to load the article.

Basically the club is a basket case due to German owners who think they know tactics, hence being on their 5th manager in 2 years.

[AyrshireTon]

Can't seem to be able to load the article.

Basically the club is a basket case due to German owners who think they know tactics, hence being on their 5th manager in 2 years.

Was reading that article this morning. I’d be quite worried if I was a Bradford fan.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Hopkin didn’t last the season.

[LargsTON]

It's fine, we have Tumilty who is much better than both.

Surely you jest.

[Toby]

I see Londonderry City have punted Kenny Shiels.

 

Too bad, so sad, never mind.