Squad for next Season

[vikingTON]

55 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

I'm slowly coming to the opinion that DOT is a very clever troll 

Your opinion is not supported by any evidence then. 

[DreamOakTree]

4 hours ago, Toby said:

Didn’t have much time to do anything other than pepper DreamOakTree with red dots for his nonsense yesterday, but it looks like everyone else has covered any questions I may have had doubts over.

There are a few things that just don’t add up. Imrie stated himself in July as he gave Brandon Diau a trial that, given his own career path, he’s prepared to give anyone who shows a willingness a chance, and if they’re not good enough, then that’s unfortunate and they move on. That just doesn’t align with the persona that DreamOakTree’s painting of him before his supposed change in policy.

There’s also the confidentiality issue. If I were released from employment in any industry, I’d expect a meeting to be held in confidence and if details were to be shared by anyone it would be myself. Surely that’s standard practice? We, as fans may have an interest in why player X has been released, but ultimately it’s between him and the club, or at most shared with his parents and agent.

In Reece Lyon’s case, he still had a year of his contract remaining. In what parallel universe do you release someone from a contract, agree compensation and arrange alternative temporary and then permanent employment without explaining the reasons to move them on? It just doesn’t happen.

Contrary to what I see are DOT’s complaints (I could be wrong, there’s a lot of shite to delve through), the club’s policy on confidentiality regarding released players is entirely correct- it’s none of our business, and if a player wishes to complain to the press about it, that’s their choice, but being a product of the youth system gives nobody a divine right to play for Morton for any extended period. If they don’t progress as everyone had hoped, that’s a shame, but football’s a cut throat industry.

Finally, while Imrie’s the first team manager, he’s got his own bosses. I don’t imagine Morton want to be seen as anything other than responsible employers who look after their staff, in all departments. If Imrie had treated young players in a way that is being implied, surely he would have questions to answer? The guy’s not untouchable, as was emphasised a few weeks ago when some (DOT in particular) were absolutely out of order in their treatment of the manager.

I’m sure he’ll skirt round the subject like he did with the introduction of Davidson and Keay, but eating a bit of humble pie and accepting he’s been in the wrong from day one here would be a far better course of action than continuing to dig.

I think you’ve made a total of 6 points there Toby which I’ll try to address:

1. Imrie is prepared to give everyone who shows willingness a chance, e.g. Brandon Diau.

Response: I don’t believe I ever said that Dougie is/was not prepared to give players a chance. 
My original gripe which culminated in an admittedly disgraceful rant,was based purely on my belief that Dougie had something against our academy graduates, but that every other facet of his management policy was spot on.

2. Confidentiality issue.

Response: I have never said that Dougie should share his conversations with young players or their parents with the fan base. 

3. Dougie explaining to academy graduates why they’re not part of his plans, e.g. Reece Lyon.

Response: This was the trigger for my gripe. Both Lyon and Strapp stated in interviews that Dougie told them a considerable time before releasing them, that they had no future at the club and were given no explanation. Lewis McGregor indicated something similar but I didn’t see his interview.

4. No player has a divine right to a career with Morton, academy graduate or otherwise. If they’re not good enough they’ll need to move on.

Response: Agree 100%.

5. Dougie having questions to answer on his approach to academy graduates.

Response: I believe he did have questions to answer as this affected the club’s development programme, which is an essential part of the club structure. It is evident that he has quite recently started giving those answers with the utmost clarity, the exact opposite of his approach prior to those questions being asked. In the case of Michael Garrity he has possibly taken this further than asked or expected.

6. Davidson and Keay.

Response: I asked you previously to clarify how much game time both players have been given, as this was during the time I’d switched myself off from any news about Morton due to my dismay at what was happening. Could you please answer this now so I can give a proper response?

In conclusion I am happy with the current situation in that Dougie has clarified his approach to youth players and has backed this up with his actions. Based on what you tell me about Davidson and Keay, those players may be included in those actions.

 

[MarTon80]

Watching the celebrations last week and again yesterday, this doesn't feel like a team who don't love playing for the gaffer. The players are straight over to the bench which I'm guessing wouldn't happen if any of your fuckin drivel was even remotely true.

I'm also hoping that the fact that guys like Muirhead & Oakley clearly love playing for Dougie that might help tying them up for future seasons. I know money talks but I can always hope 

[Scott]

Is MacDonald injured or looking to move on? I’d guess at his age he won’t want to be warming a bench for however long he’s got left in his career. 

[Toby]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:56 PM, DreamOakTree said:

I think you’ve made a total of 6 points there Toby which I’ll try to address:

1. Imrie is prepared to give everyone who shows willingness a chance, e.g. Brandon Diau.

Response: I don’t believe I ever said that Dougie is/was not prepared to give players a chance. 
My original gripe which culminated in an admittedly disgraceful rant,was based purely on my belief that Dougie had something against our academy graduates, but that every other facet of his management policy was spot on.

2. Confidentiality issue.

Response: I have never said that Dougie should share his conversations with young players or their parents with the fan base. 

3. Dougie explaining to academy graduates why they’re not part of his plans, e.g. Reece Lyon.

Response: This was the trigger for my gripe. Both Lyon and Strapp stated in interviews that Dougie told them a considerable time before releasing them, that they had no future at the club and were given no explanation. Lewis McGregor indicated something similar but I didn’t see his interview.

4. No player has a divine right to a career with Morton, academy graduate or otherwise. If they’re not good enough they’ll need to move on.

Response: Agree 100%.

5. Dougie having questions to answer on his approach to academy graduates.

Response: I believe he did have questions to answer as this affected the club’s development programme, which is an essential part of the club structure. It is evident that he has quite recently started giving those answers with the utmost clarity, the exact opposite of his approach prior to those questions being asked. In the case of Michael Garrity he has possibly taken this further than asked or expected.

6. Davidson and Keay.

Response: I asked you previously to clarify how much game time both players have been given, as this was during the time I’d switched myself off from any news about Morton due to my dismay at what was happening. Could you please answer this now so I can give a proper response?

In conclusion I am happy with the current situation in that Dougie has clarified his approach to youth players and has backed this up with his actions. Based on what you tell me about Davidson and Keay, those players may be included in those actions.

 

I suspect you posted this around the time of yesterday's game in the hope that I'd barely notice it and you'd appear to have gotten the last word in, hence "won" this argument, but here we go.

1. I refer you to your post on 7th October on this very thread. You stated;

Quote

 

It’s quite a simple explanation:

Imrie has a phobia about Morton academy players having an affinity with the club and the fan base. He’s hung on to McGrattan through gritted teeth only because he can clearly contribute to the team performance, and to offer a token “look, this proves I have nothing against academy players”. Is anyone going to tell us with a straight face that Boyd, Broadfoot, Wilson and Power are upgrades on Lyon, McGregor, King and Strapp? 

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS!

 

These assertions are quite the opposite of a manager being prepared to give anyone a chance. You've actually gone as far as to suggest he's kept a player on in order to cover for his deliberate attempts to hound other players out of the club.

While we're here, it's great to see you asking if Iain Wilson is an upgrade on Reece Lyon. That's worked out tremendously for you.

2. Yet, as he doesn't share what is said between himself and released players, you have used this to speculate as to how he has treated players as he isn't in the position to disclose those conversations. I didn't say that you said he should be sharing confidential information, but it's irresponsible at best, and vindictive at worst of you to throw allegations of mistreatment of players at him when he doesn't have a right to reply.

3. See my answer to (2). Imrie has to remain professional and can't bite back at unhappy released players. But you know that anyway.

4. Perhaps if you do agree, you'll understand that, having brought in far more quality in the middle of midfield in the form of Crawford, Wilson, Gillespie and Power, while Cammy Blues has kicked on, there is a reason that Reece Lyon, who appears to be the main character other than yourself in this wee soap opera, was deemed surplus to requirements.

5. The questions Imrie had to answer were to his employers, not to you or I. Not because he was neglecting the club's academy products, because it's part of his job role. However, you are intimating that Imrie has only recently started answering these questions. This isn't the case, as he has introduced academy graduates in the form of Davidson and Keay before in the midst this campaign of yours.

6. So, onto Davidson and Keay. Your response to this has really fucked me off. I pointed out that these players have been introduced from the bench and you're asking me to clarify how much gametime they've had because you lost interest for a while?

This is information that is quite readily available, do you think I'm just making things up? Ignorance is not an excuse for you to throw the onus of proof onto myself.

I will, however indulge you against my better judgement. Davidson came on against Elgin on 9th September as an 80th minute substitute. Keay was introduced six minutes later. In the next round against Kelty on October 14th, Keay came on as a 75th minute substitute.

O'Boy came on as a 76th minute substitute against Bo'ness on 25th November, scoring in the 89th minute. He also came on as an 83rd minute substitute against Ayr on Tuesday.

So far as I can see, Davidson has been an unused substitute on five occasions, Keay four times and O'Boy five times, including yesterday. Young goalkeeper Sam Murdoch has made the bench four times. I suspect you'll argue that being an unused substitute doesn't constitute being given an opportunity- I would disagree, and see it as a positive that these young guys are involved in the first team squad.

[TAFKAC]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

I suspect you posted this around the time of yesterday's game in the hope that I'd barely notice it and you'd appear to have gotten the last word in, hence "won" this argument, but here we go.

1. I refer you to your post on 7th October on this very thread. You stated;

These assertions are quite the opposite of a manager being prepared to give anyone a chance. You've actually gone as far as to suggest he's kept a player on in order to cover for his deliberate attempts to hound other players out of the club.

While we're here, it's great to see you asking if Iain Wilson is an upgrade on Reece Lyon. That's worked out tremendously for you.

2. Yet, as he doesn't share what is said between himself and released players, you have used this to speculate as to how he has treated players as he isn't in the position to disclose those conversations. I didn't say that you said he should be sharing confidential information, but it's irresponsible at best, and vindictive at worst of you to throw allegations of mistreatment of players at him when he doesn't have a right to reply.

3. See my answer to (2). Imrie has to remain professional and can't bite back at unhappy released players. But you know that anyway.

4. Perhaps if you do agree, you'll understand that, having brought in far more quality in the middle of midfield in the form of Crawford, Wilson, Gillespie and Power, while Cammy Blues has kicked on, there is a reason that Reece Lyon, who appears to be the main character other than yourself in this wee soap opera, was deemed surplus to requirements.

5. The questions Imrie had to answer were to his employers, not to you or I. Not because he was neglecting the club's academy products, because it's part of his job role. However, you are intimating that Imrie has only recently started answering these questions. This isn't the case, as he has introduced academy graduates in the form of Davidson and Keay before in the midst this campaign of yours.

6. So, onto Davidson and Keay. Your response to this has really fucked me off. I pointed out that these players have been introduced from the bench and you're asking me to clarify how much gametime they've had because you lost interest for a while?

This is information that is quite readily available, do you think I'm just making things up? Ignorance is not an excuse for you to throw the onus of proof onto myself.

I will, however indulge you against my better judgement. Davidson came on against Elgin on 9th September as an 80th minute substitute. Keay was introduced six minutes later. In the next round against Kelty on October 14th, Keay came on as a 75th minute substitute.

O'Boy came on as a 76th minute substitute against Bo'ness on 25th November, scoring in the 89th minute. He also came on as an 83rd minute substitute against Ayr on Tuesday.

So far as I can see, Davidson has been an unused substitute on five occasions, Keay four times and O'Boy five times, including yesterday. Young goalkeeper Sam Murdoch has made the bench four times. I suspect you'll argue that being an unused substitute doesn't constitute being given an opportunity- I would disagree, and see it as a positive that these young guys are involved in the first team squad.

Just want to support the last para. This is key to youth development and is a great opportunity for the player and the manager. For the player it is a chance to show he belongs in the first team squad and cope with the mental element of it. And for the manager to judge their temperament amongst older more experienced players. 
 

Going back to the personal - best thing my lad did was to skip the second year of under 18 county football and go straight to lower level adult football at 17. It got him his move to a senior county side in the second season and then step 5 as he was able to show temperament as well as ability. Loads of better players than him didn’t have the mental strength and a lot have stopped playing completely. 

[DreamOakTree]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

I suspect you posted this around the time of yesterday's game in the hope that I'd barely notice it and you'd appear to have gotten the last word in, hence "won" this argument, but here we go.

1. I refer you to your post on 7th October on this very thread. You stated;

These assertions are quite the opposite of a manager being prepared to give anyone a chance. You've actually gone as far as to suggest he's kept a player on in order to cover for his deliberate attempts to hound other players out of the club.

While we're here, it's great to see you asking if Iain Wilson is an upgrade on Reece Lyon. That's worked out tremendously for you.

2. Yet, as he doesn't share what is said between himself and released players, you have used this to speculate as to how he has treated players as he isn't in the position to disclose those conversations. I didn't say that you said he should be sharing confidential information, but it's irresponsible at best, and vindictive at worst of you to throw allegations of mistreatment of players at him when he doesn't have a right to reply.

3. See my answer to (2). Imrie has to remain professional and can't bite back at unhappy released players. But you know that anyway.

4. Perhaps if you do agree, you'll understand that, having brought in far more quality in the middle of midfield in the form of Crawford, Wilson, Gillespie and Power, while Cammy Blues has kicked on, there is a reason that Reece Lyon, who appears to be the main character other than yourself in this wee soap opera, was deemed surplus to requirements.

5. The questions Imrie had to answer were to his employers, not to you or I. Not because he was neglecting the club's academy products, because it's part of his job role. However, you are intimating that Imrie has only recently started answering these questions. This isn't the case, as he has introduced academy graduates in the form of Davidson and Keay before in the midst this campaign of yours.

6. So, onto Davidson and Keay. Your response to this has really fucked me off. I pointed out that these players have been introduced from the bench and you're asking me to clarify how much gametime they've had because you lost interest for a while?

This is information that is quite readily available, do you think I'm just making things up? Ignorance is not an excuse for you to throw the onus of proof onto myself.

I will, however indulge you against my better judgement. Davidson came on against Elgin on 9th September as an 80th minute substitute. Keay was introduced six minutes later. In the next round against Kelty on October 14th, Keay came on as a 75th minute substitute.

O'Boy came on as a 76th minute substitute against Bo'ness on 25th November, scoring in the 89th minute. He also came on as an 83rd minute substitute against Ayr on Tuesday.

So far as I can see, Davidson has been an unused substitute on five occasions, Keay four times and O'Boy five times, including yesterday. Young goalkeeper Sam Murdoch has made the bench four times. I suspect you'll argue that being an unused substitute doesn't constitute being given an opportunity- I would disagree, and see it as a positive that these young guys are involved in the first team squad.

I appreciate your measured response Toby, which I realise I probably don’t deserve given my previous rants. Drink fuelled or otherwise I have no excuse for such personal insults. 

I just realised as soon as I replied to you yesterday it was bang on 3pm.
I had started penning my response to you (which you certainly did deserve) much earlier and was so determined to get it right I genuinely didn’t notice the timing of it.
“Winning the argument” on here is something I have no belief I will be able to achieve in the foreseeable future. The best I can do is attempt to make amends for my previous behaviour, in the hope that my posts will simply be received in the same normal fashion as everyone else on here. I.e. with a response to my point excluding derogatory remarks. 

On point 1: My assertion at that time, rightly or wrongly, was that Dougie WOULD give everyone a chance, as long as he wasn’t a Morton Academy Graduate. Since that time Wilson has improved and has indeed turned out to be an upgrade on Lyon as you say.

2. This is quite a complex issue as I agree that the fan base don’t need to know the personal conversations between manager and player. My angst in this case arose from the statements of Strapp and Lyon, who disclosed the content of those conversations. I assumed they were telling the truth and that Dougie would have the right to confirm or deny their version of events.

3. I get that now, and that the players’ versions could be tainted by their disappointment at being released. 

4. I do agree on that now. Although I do prefer a balance between youth and experience. It’s completely Dougie’s prerogative to put the players on the pitch that he feels are best suited to get a result. He’s certainly been proved correct in that respect with recent results.

5. This issue has been compounded by events changing over time since I first got myself into a state about how I felt our academy graduates were being treated. Each event since that point has either reinforced that view or allayed it, with my emotions pretty much latching onto every reported word. For me the situation has moved incrementally from my perceived treatment of those players, to a situation that is how I would see as normal and acceptable.

6. Once I’d calmed down and started to read reports etc. I searched but couldn’t find those details about Davidson and Keay, hence I asked you at the time to give me the details. Again the timeline is quite complex as to what happened when, but I fully accept your details now, to which you’ve kindly added the appearances of Murdoch and O’Boy. In this case yes, I’m happy to accept that Dougie is now addressing the issue of our academy graduates and how they fit into his plans. 
 

 

 

[Toby]

14 minutes ago, DreamOakTree said:

I appreciate your measured response Toby, which I realise I probably don’t deserve given my previous rants. Drink fuelled or otherwise I have no excuse for such personal insults. 

I just realised as soon as I replied to you yesterday it was bang on 3pm.
I had started penning my response to you (which you certainly did deserve) much earlier and was so determined to get it right I genuinely didn’t notice the timing of it.
“Winning the argument” on here is something I have no belief I will be able to achieve in the foreseeable future. The best I can do is attempt to make amends for my previous behaviour, in the hope that my posts will simply be received in the same normal fashion as everyone else on here. I.e. with a response to my point excluding derogatory remarks. 

On point 1: My assertion at that time, rightly or wrongly, was that Dougie WOULD give everyone a chance, as long as he wasn’t a Morton Academy Graduate. Since that time Wilson has improved and has indeed turned out to be an upgrade on Lyon as you say.

2. This is quite a complex issue as I agree that the fan base don’t need to know the personal conversations between manager and player. My angst in this case arose from the statements of Strapp and Lyon, who disclosed the content of those conversations. I assumed they were telling the truth and that Dougie would have the right to confirm or deny their version of events.

3. I get that now, and that the players’ versions could be tainted by their disappointment at being released. 

4. I do agree on that now. Although I do prefer a balance between youth and experience. It’s completely Dougie’s prerogative to put the players on the pitch that he feels are best suited to get a result. He’s certainly been proved correct in that respect with recent results.

5. This issue has been compounded by events changing over time since I first got myself into a state about how I felt our academy graduates were being treated. Each event since that point has either reinforced that view or allayed it, with my emotions pretty much latching onto every reported word. For me the situation has moved incrementally from my perceived treatment of those players, to a situation that is how I would see as normal and acceptable.

6. Once I’d calmed down and started to read reports etc. I searched but couldn’t find those details about Davidson and Keay, hence I asked you at the time to give me the details. Again the timeline is quite complex as to what happened when, but I fully accept your details now, to which you’ve kindly added the appearances of Murdoch and O’Boy. In this case yes, I’m happy to accept that Dougie is now addressing the issue of our academy graduates and how they fit into his plans. 
 

 

 

You just can’t help yourself, can you?

[TRVMP]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:02 AM, thehustler said:

Very poor decision. Release young, talented player and sign a perennially injured player from a lower league club. Some might think Imrie is deliberately ruining our season....see signing of a useless, finished centre back.

Where are we on this?

[Mr.Blue]

Not sure where to put this but Partick have signed Daniel Oreilly following the end of his short term contract at raith. Always thought he was a prick and that confirms it.

[RossMcC1874]

Aye didn't think he was great for Hamilton and now he is playing for that mob long may it continue. 

 

[Scott]

58 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said:

Not sure where to put this but Partick have signed Daniel Oreilly following the end of his short term contract at raith. Always thought he was a prick and that confirms it.

“Skint” Partick handing out 18 month deals. 

[irnbru]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

“Skint” Partick handing out 18 month deals. 

Hopefully we get contract extensions too - other teams in the league are obviously sniffing about players in our league. Not sure we need to do much business in this window but it would be good to tie down some of the players going out of contract. 

[Admin]

I've tidied this thread up a bit. If you want to continue the erm...riveting...conversation this thread descended into, you can find it in General Nonsense. 

[DreamOakTree]

Fair enough Dougie:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenocktelegraph.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2F24035282.dougie-imrie-urges-michael-garrity-step-fitness%2F

[Jamie_M]

You love to see it.

 

[Greacen2000]

Excellent work by the club getting this deal done - he has been outstanding since coming back into the team.  Hopefully a few more to follow

[TRVMP]

That's great news.

[Mr.Blue]

That's a brilliant piece of business by the club. Hopefully the first of many contract extensions.

When is Dougies contract up?

 

[Jamie_M]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said:

That's a brilliant piece of business by the club. Hopefully the first of many contract extensions.

When is Dougies contract up?

 

June then it converts to 1 year rolling.