Championship 23/24

[Jamie_M]

2 hours ago, Stevie Aitken's Love Child said:

A 30 year old journeyman centre back who was with Flint Town in the Welsh league last season. Don't call us we'll call you*

* we won't call

From his Instagram:

East Kilbride will be teasing him signing before the day is out.

[Toby]

1 hour ago, vikingTON said:

In what way is it an anomaly?

It is in fact statistically likely that if ten clubs were randomly allocated their final game home/away, then one of those clubs would get four in a row away from home. It is only an 'anomaly' if you don't understand how a statistical set works - or are trying to fabricate an utterly cringeworthy and groundless grievance.

Friday night fixtures are now more common each season than Tuesday or any other non-Saturday fixture. That's the way it is and has been for several years. Your citing of Partick Thistle Family Club as a noble fighter against that cause only undermines your point further. 

 

I’m sure you’ll be able to provide similar examples of clubs being given such a run of fixtures at the arse end of nowhere on the final day so many years in a row then, given that you don’t see it as an anomaly?

The only comparable example I can think of is Rangers continually playing away on the first day, which can be explained by the tradition of Celtic lifting the flag on day one. Their away game on day one this season is the arduous track to Kilmarnock.

My citing of Partick as a noble fighter against the cause is another belter. You said no other clubs complain about away fixtures at awkward times and I gave you an example. That it’s a shit club is neither here nor there- unless of course, you not liking them can be used to as another flailing point as you try to drag yourself out of a hole. Poor stuff, I expected better than that.

1 hour ago, vikingTON said:

The vast majority of people do not finish work in Greenock at 5pm to attend games though, because it's not the 1957 any more. 

Two minutes ago you were claiming that they were elected to represent the fans rather than be detached decision-makers - I'll regard that as a climbdown. 

If GMFC presented its own organisational objection (or indeed Dougie's objection from a first team view) of the schedule then they'd be fully justified in responding to the Tele. By doing so on behalf of the fans, the club should have actually consulted the fanbase as a whole. As the club has in fact already consulted the fanbase on potential changes to the fixture schedule, it is no way more or less relevant an issue. 

More importantly, a genuine consultation would have provided GMFC with some factual evidence to support its arguments, instead of just vaguely gesturing at the loudest handful of voices on social media. Which would have avoided such a pitiful excuse of a statement which will achieve absolutely nothing other than minor ridicule.

You regard it as whatever you wish- but the board are indirectly voted for by the fans, and as such are appointed decision makers. If they wish to speak on the fans’ behalf, the vast majority (i.e. just about everyone but you) will have no issue with it.

 

47 minutes ago, Greacen2000 said:

The statement just mentioned that it was a lot to ask of the fans - it didn't imply that the club had consulted with fans or received feedback from them or anything like that.  It goes without saying that you are entitled to disagree with Toby & with the views expressed by the club, but I do think you are overreacting a little bit.

Wait a minute- the article’s behind a paywall, so they didn’t actually say anything on the fans’ behalf, but merely pointed out how they felt it was unfair on them???

And he’s actually greeting about that???

Given some of the stuff we’ve given Morton boards grief for down the years, expressing disappointment and sympathy for the fans is one I never thought I’d see them getting hammered for. A new low for this once proud fanbase. Or, for vikingTON, more specifically.

[DreamOakTree]

There’s surely quite a big difference between the Board first consulting with the fans on the conference league proposals, before voting on an issue that we had an influence on before it took place, and a fixture list that has already been pre-determined. The second one seems like just expressing concern that our fans have been inconvenienced in the same way four seasons running.

[Greacen2000]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

I’m sure you’ll be able to provide similar examples of clubs being given such a run of fixtures at the arse end of nowhere on the final day so many years in a row then, given that you don’t see it as an anomaly?

The only comparable example I can think of is Rangers continually playing away on the first day, which can be explained by the tradition of Celtic lifting the flag on day one. Their away game on day one this season is the arduous track to Kilmarnock.

My citing of Partick as a noble fighter against the cause is another belter. You said no other clubs complain about away fixtures at awkward times and I gave you an example. That it’s a shit club is neither here nor there- unless of course, you not liking them can be used to as another flailing point as you try to drag yourself out of a hole. Poor stuff, I expected better than that.

You regard it as whatever you wish- but the board are indirectly voted for by the fans, and as such are appointed decision makers. If they wish to speak on the fans’ behalf, the vast majority (i.e. just about everyone but you) will have no issue with it.

 

Wait a minute- the article’s behind a paywall, so they didn’t actually say anything on the fans’ behalf, but merely pointed out how they felt it was unfair on them???

And he’s actually greeting about that???

Given some of the stuff we’ve given Morton boards grief for down the years, expressing disappointment and sympathy for the fans is one I never thought I’d see them getting hammered for. A new low for this once proud fanbase. Or, for vikingTON, more specifically.

The statement said

"There's a massive buzz around the club with the launch of the fixtures today, and we can't wait to get started at home to Ayr on August 5.

"However, we were disappointed to see that for the fourth year in a row, we have been handed a lengthy away trip on the final day. We will now have had Arbroath twice, Cove once and Inverness within four years, all away from home on a Friday night.

"While we understand that every team needs to travel to these places at some point, it is disappointing to have had similar journeys on the final day in multiple successive seasons. 

"For our supporters, it is a lot to ask for them to make these trips on a Friday night, and although we know they will do it and back the team with their incredible support, it is a big ask year after year."

Nothing in there that I would call risible or tinpot but yeah, opinions etc.

[TONofmemories]

Fans at the front of their thoughs? Terrible; absolutely terrible behaviour. Get back to hating us..

[TRVMP]

5 hours ago, Stevie Aitken's Love Child said:

A 30 year old journeyman centre back who was with Flint Town in the Welsh league last season. Don't call us we'll call you*

* we won't call

Released by relegated minnows "Flint Town United", to make matters worse.

Here's FTU being relegated on the final day, in the dayglo strips.

Diau and the 'keeper cover themselves in glory at 35 seconds in.

Doesn't look too clever at 1:42 as well - granted he's not directly at fault but you'd expect him to stretch for the ball.

If he can't handle a basic up-and-under then he's got no hope in Scottish football at any level, much less the Championship.

He'll have been laughed out of the park.

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, Toby said:

I’m sure you’ll be able to provide similar examples of clubs being given such a run of fixtures at the arse end of nowhere on the final day so many years in a row then, given that you don’t see it as an anomaly?

What has the arse end of nowhere got to do with anything? 

The statistical chance of GMFC or indeed any other club getting an away fixture four years in a row by random chance is 6.25% It's the same as tossing four coins and getting four heads. 

Given that there are always ten clubs whose final fixture is being decided by random chance, it is really not remarkable at all that one club GMFC experienced this outcome. No anomaly, no injustice, no grand conspiracy at work - it's plain tough luck. 

The rest of your increasingly desperate attempt to get a bite falls down on that straightforward reality. If Inverness or Partick were throwing their toys out of the pram in a club statement then the ludicrous nature of their complaint would be quite rightly highlighted. Well here we are with the same nonsensical line of thought being applauded as some sort of welcome and forthright stand against the SPFL. Who doubtless haven't even bothered to take note of it. 

[Toby]

50 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

What has the arse end of nowhere got to do with anything? 

The statistical chance of GMFC or indeed any other club getting an away fixture four years in a row by random chance is 6.25% It's the same as tossing four coins and getting four heads. 

Given that there are always ten clubs whose final fixture is being decided by random chance, it is really not remarkable at all that one club GMFC experienced this outcome. No anomaly, no injustice, no grand conspiracy at work - it's plain tough luck. 

The rest of your increasingly desperate attempt to get a bite falls down on that straightforward reality. If Inverness or Partick were throwing their toys out of the pram in a club statement then the ludicrous nature of their complaint would be quite rightly highlighted. Well here we are with the same nonsensical line of thought being applauded as some sort of welcome and forthright stand against the SPFL. Who doubtless haven't even bothered to take note of it. 

Quite a hill you’re choosing to die on here, so where exactly are your examples of other teams playing away from home on the final day of a season on so many consecutive occasions? Particularly in the arse end of nowhere, considering these places are, as I helpfully pointed out, harder to reach than more accessible venues such as Kirkcaldy for an evening kick off during the week(wee clue, there aren’t any).

If you actually read any of my posts, you might have noted that I pointed out that there was no grand plan to screw us over, labelling such a suggestion as absurd. Of course though, you’re looking for anything , so I suppose that’ll just have to do and you can hope it’ll stick.

I see you’re still sticking to the old Partick Thistle: Bad philosophy to drag yourself out of this one (at least you’ve got something right), but you’re fooling nobody, especially in ignoring the point that was raised about the club not actually speaking on your or my behalf.

Keep howling to the moon, champ. Leave the award winning, fact based analysis to the experts.

[capitanus]

4 hours ago, TONofmemories said:

Fans at the front of their thoughs? Terrible; absolutely terrible behaviour. Get back to hating us..

It would be much better if they were at the front of their thoughts, rather than the front of their thoughs.  Just saying. 

[Pedrodelawasp]

“MORTON bosses have hit out at SPFL chiefs” it says at the beginning of the Telegraph’s piece on the fixture list. That’s followed up by a quote that amounts to ‘it’s a bit of a shame the fans will need to travel on the final day again, but we’re sure they will and they’ll be great.’

 

Bit of a stretch. Nothing to see here.

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, TONofmemories said:

Fans at the front of their thoughs? Terrible; absolutely terrible behaviour. Get back to hating us..

But not quite so much at the front of their thoughts as to actually consult the fans, which would add substance to their otherwise empty statement. Nor do these thoughts and prayers actually convert to meaningful pressure on the SPFL to change anything at all. So the emptiest of empty gestures then.

One thing that the old regime did quite well was maintain the professionalism of our official club communications. With the exception of the O'Connor interview in 2014, we don't do airing our dirty linen in public or issuing ludicrous/self-aggandising club statements. McKinnon and plenty of other clowns were allowed to spout nonsense in the press, only for the truth to vindicate the club's stance. The new board has largely maintained our club's dignity and left that sort of nonsense to the Scot Gardiners of this world. 

So when the Tele comes calling on the slowest of slow weeks for the sports desk to ask whether the club had a comment to make on a handful of folk on social media gurning about the injustice of the fixture list, the club should have said 'Nope, not really'. Hopefully this sidetrack into giving meaningless self-aggandising 'club statements' will prove the exception and not the rule. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, Toby said:

Quite a hill you’re choosing to die on here, so where exactly are your examples of other teams playing away from home on the final day of a season on so many consecutive occasions? Particularly in the arse end of nowhere, considering these places are, as I helpfully pointed out, harder to reach than more accessible venues such as Kirkcaldy for an evening kick off during the week(wee clue, there aren’t any).

You clearly don't understand - or are pretending not to understand - statistical probability if you are expecting a second example of a 6.25% shot to occur within a set of 10 outcomes. Try running your own coin toss experiment into this anomaly that the club must stand up to. I'll await your results with interest. 

[AyrshireTon]

Let's say when the fixtures are drawn up, there are 18 possible final day games for us (anyone at home or away).

Sharing a league with Arbroath and ICT means a 2 in 18 chance of playing one of them away (1 in 9).

When Cove were also in the league last season it was 1 in 6. 

The probability of us getting a trip like that on the final day four years in a row is 1/9 x 1/9 x 1/6 x 1/9 which is odds of 1 in 4374 (0.023%).

If anyone classes QoS in the same category for the first of those two seasons (a matter of opinion) then it's a mere 1 in 1944 (0.051%).

No doubt there's several other ways of looking at this, but I'd say we've been more than a little bit unlucky.

[Greacen2000]

1 hour ago, vikingTON said:

But not quite so much at the front of their thoughts as to actually consult the fans, which would add substance to their otherwise empty statement. Nor do these thoughts and prayers actually convert to meaningful pressure on the SPFL to change anything at all. So the emptiest of empty gestures then.

One thing that the old regime did quite well was maintain the professionalism of our official club communications. With the exception of the O'Connor interview in 2014, we don't do airing our dirty linen in public or issuing ludicrous/self-aggandising club statements. McKinnon and plenty of other clowns were allowed to spout nonsense in the press, only for the truth to vindicate the club's stance. The new board has largely maintained our club's dignity and left that sort of nonsense to the Scot Gardiners of this world. 

So when the Tele comes calling on the slowest of slow weeks for the sports desk to ask whether the club had a comment to make on a handful of folk on social media gurning about the injustice of the fixture list, the club should have said 'Nope, not really'. Hopefully this sidetrack into giving meaningless self-aggandising 'club statements' will prove the exception and not the rule. 

There is nothing in the article or the statement itself to suggest that it came about as a result of the Tele asking the club for a reaction to some supposed social media posts, and I wouldn’t really say that there was anything particularly self-aggrandizing about the tone of the statement either.

There are usually at least a couple of back pages per week in the Tele that are dedicated to Morton, which most would agree is mutually beneficial to both parties.  I’m sure that if we had been announcing a marquee signing on the same day that the headline would likely have been different, so you may well be onto something when you say “slow news day”.  But in lieu of any real Morton news, a story on the back page will still shift a few more copies while keeping the club in the hearts & minds of anyone who picks up a copy.  

I don’t see any problem either with the Tele asking the club for a comment on the day of fixtures being released, or with the content of the statement from the club.

If the club statement had followed a partick-esque victim narrative, or contained some sort of conspiratorial take along the lines of the league giving dundee utd an easy run-in, then it most certainly would qualify as tinpot, embarrassing, risible etc but it doesn’t do any of these things - not even close.

[Toby]

4 hours ago, vikingTON said:

But not quite so much at the front of their thoughts as to actually consult the fans, which would add substance to their otherwise empty statement. Nor do these thoughts and prayers actually convert to meaningful pressure on the SPFL to change anything at all. So the emptiest of empty gestures then.

One thing that the old regime did quite well was maintain the professionalism of our official club communications. With the exception of the O'Connor interview in 2014, we don't do airing our dirty linen in public or issuing ludicrous/self-aggandising club statements. McKinnon and plenty of other clowns were allowed to spout nonsense in the press, only for the truth to vindicate the club's stance. The new board has largely maintained our club's dignity and left that sort of nonsense to the Scot Gardiners of this world. 

So when the Tele comes calling on the slowest of slow weeks for the sports desk to ask whether the club had a comment to make on a handful of folk on social media gurning about the injustice of the fixture list, the club should have said 'Nope, not really'. Hopefully this sidetrack into giving meaningless self-aggandising 'club statements' will prove the exception and not the rule. 

The old regime actively despised the fans. They sent out letters to folk who weren’t even charged, never mind convicted, after Brechin away in 2018 threatening them with sanctions for their behaviour without even investigating what happened.

After that, in 2020 blocked fans on Twitter and released a ludicrous statement about respect when, in actual fact, the tweets were merely criticisms of Hopkin’s team selection that day, rather than anything abusive. This made them Scottish football’s laughing stock for that particular week, and they took it from all angles, before climbing down and wasting time and resources trying to make good of their fuck ups.

In this instance, a member of the board has been asked a question by Chris, admitted that he’s not pleased with the outcome and why, but used it as an opportunity to throw in a wee compliment to the support. And you’re greeting about it.

Christ on a fucking tricycle.

3 hours ago, vikingTON said:

You clearly don't understand - or are pretending not to understand - statistical probability if you are expecting a second example of a 6.25% shot to occur within a set of 10 outcomes. Try running your own coin toss experiment into this anomaly that the club must stand up to. I'll await your results with interest. 

Clearly not. But I’m sure you’ll be along soon enough with examples of clubs down the years being forced to play their final games in the arse end of nowhere four years in a row to show me that this isn’t an anomaly. After all with a 6.25% chance of four consecutive away games anywhere then there must be a number of examples to put me firmly in my box. Oh wait, you’ve failed to provide any, in spite of my promptings.

Now and again, even you are wrong. Boring people into submission doesn’t always work. Best walking away with your tail between your legs, accepting you made a cunt of it and picking your next battle more carefully.

[Chesh]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJXbxQJX/

 

He has made it into the dougies office at the very least

[dunning1874]

49 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

But not quite so much at the front of their thoughts as to actually consult the fans, which would add substance to their otherwise empty statement. Nor do these thoughts and prayers actually convert to meaningful pressure on the SPFL to change anything at all. So the emptiest of empty gestures then.

One thing that the old regime did quite well was maintain the professionalism of our official club communications. With the exception of the O'Connor interview in 2014, we don't do airing our dirty linen in public or issuing ludicrous/self-aggandising club statements. McKinnon and plenty of other clowns were allowed to spout nonsense in the press, only for the truth to vindicate the club's stance. The new board has largely maintained our club's dignity and left that sort of nonsense to the Scot Gardiners of this world. 

So when the Tele comes calling on the slowest of slow weeks for the sports desk to ask whether the club had a comment to make on a handful of folk on social media gurning about the injustice of the fixture list, the club should have said 'Nope, not really'. Hopefully this sidetrack into giving meaningless self-aggandising 'club statements' will prove the exception and not the rule. 

Not only are you massively overreacting to what was just a throwaway comment to the Tele - that isn't the club going full Partick persecution complex with an army of lawyers, official statements and formal complaints to the SPFL - but this is quite an incredible take. Are you forgetting some of the ridiculous statements the club were firing out in Crawford's time with sagas playing out in public, before even getting into all the times Dougie publicly threatened to walk away or go part-time?

We were widely seen in Scottish football as an unprofessional laughing stock run by clowns for the best part of 20 years, because we were. The suggestion that this is in any way comparable to some of the stuff the Raes came out with is risible.

[so72]

2 hours ago, Chesh said:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJXbxQJX/

 

He has made it into the dougies office at the very least

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJXga2Q1/

 

Now he is coming to training, really hope we get some content about how shite he is

[vikingTON]

8 hours ago, Toby said:

The old regime actively despised the fans. They sent out letters to folk who weren’t even charged, never mind convicted, after Brechin away in 2018 threatening them with sanctions for their behaviour without even investigating what happened.

After that, in 2020 blocked fans on Twitter and released a ludicrous statement about respect when, in actual fact, the tweets were merely criticisms of Hopkin’s team selection that day, rather than anything abusive. This made them Scottish football’s laughing stock for that particular week, and they took it from all angles, before climbing down and wasting time and resources trying to make good of their fuck ups.

 

8 hours ago, dunning1874 said:

Not only are you massively overreacting to what was just a throwaway comment to the Tele - that isn't the club going full Partick persecution complex with an army of lawyers, official statements and formal complaints to the SPFL - but this is quite an incredible take. Are you forgetting some of the ridiculous statements the club were firing out in Crawford's time with sagas playing out in public, before even getting into all the times Dougie publicly threatened to walk away or go part-time?

We were widely seen in Scottish football as an unprofessional laughing stock run by clowns for the best part of 20 years, because we were. The suggestion that this is in any way comparable to some of the stuff the Raes came out with is risible.

I'm not talking about the club's internal conduct towards the fans under the Raes (which was abysmal for large parts of their tenure) and couldn't care less about tweets which did not in fact make GMFC Scottish football's laughing stock this or any other week. You are both vastly overstating the degree to which the rest of Scottish football actually takes notice about the internal politics of our club. 

I'm talking about official statements by GMFC that regulate our relationship with external bodies - such as other clubs, the SPFL and the SFA. Which in response to most of our own clowncar travails, the death of Rangers, the reinstatement saga, the COVID shutdown etc. have been more or less professional in tone and strictly necessary in form - rather than the plethora of pointless, self-aggandising bollocks club statements churned out by certain clubs at this level and the one below. This is an official club statement given to the Tele gurning about the SPFL, err, having a fixture list that sent the team away from home on the last day of the season again. It is indeed risible that someone at GMFC responded to that non-story in an official capacity and I hope that restraint will be restored in the near future. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

8 hours ago, Toby said:

Clearly not. But I’m sure you’ll be along soon enough with examples of clubs down the years being forced to play their final games in the arse end of nowhere four years in a row to show me that this isn’t an anomaly.

After all with a 6.25% chance of four consecutive away games anywhere then there must be a number of examples to put me firmly in my box. Oh wait, you’ve failed to provide any, in spite of my promptings.

The only failure here is with the ability to comprehend statistical chance. 

Given that your principal grounds for complaint is that people will be taking their hard-earned annual leave to make their way to the game rather than on God's given day for football which is a Saturday, the sum total of fixtures in the data set you yourself have defined is 20. That is four seasons of Championship football played on a Friday night x five fixtures on matchday 36 - with an equal chance of being randomly assigned home or away*. 

That a 6.25% chance (four away games from four) shows up once and once only within that set is not in fact an anomaly as you have stated. It is in fact just about the most probable outcome. Just as if you ran a coin-toss experiment with the exact same sample size, the most probable number of outcomes where four heads were produced from four tosses would be 1. The genuine anomaly would be if 3 or 5 outcomes produced all heads - suggesting a bias within the coin being used. 

It's really not my fault that the statistics don't support your claim that an anomaly exists where it does not, in the same way that it's not the SPFL's fault that a randomised fixture generator doesn't plug in an AA route map guide from Greenock into its calculation. 

 

 

 

 

* The calculations above of course simplified to a degree, because in the case of fixtures each outcome is not fully independent of each other.