Championship 23/24

[Toby]

1 minute ago, SpoonTon said:

I think it's a good example to use, precisely because it doesn't make that kind of sense. Something of the buzz that had been created still existed, so it was easy to attract additional supporters to a match that had a big match feeling (despite failures on the pitch). It hangs off the back of that feeling, rather than anything more rational than that. Motherwell away the following season is another example. We took about as many fans through to Motherwell that day as we had at Cappielow against Hearts a few months ago. The feeling created by the initial investment after Dougie Rae came in, and its accompanying narrative, was a powerful thing. 

I think it's probably accurate to say that the game against Gretna was one of those games which killed a bit of that buzz. As did the Motherwell game and a myriad of other factors (including outside financial factors after 2008, the banality of being back to mid to bottom second tier football, and a lack of investment off the field). 

People want to be involved in the idea of club being taken places. It doesn't matter so much if the destination is as mundane as the bottom half of the Premiership - there's just a feeling of people wanting to be there for the journey. The idea that a club might get promoted during a good season is less powerful than the idea of a club with a bit of money moving upwards. 

Perhaps, but I’d say by that point the journey was already stuttering quite badly, and that three years down the line since the takeover is a considerable period of time to maintain the crowds with little progress. My memory of that season is one of it being a bit of a “lost” campaign, in which we were stuck in a bit of limbo, with an inevitability that it would end in tears, which of course, it did. Maybe the bad memories of how it ended have clouded how I look back on it.

I’d definitely agree that that game helped contribute to killing off any remaining buzz and that the support at the time was probably hanging off the back of previous seasons, but only just, and that game in particular seems a real outlier for me. At least the Motherwell game involved a team in the driving seat towards the title going to a big cup tie after getting nationwide publicity in the previous round.

To be honest, the first (league) game against Gretna that season pretty much killed off any chance of winning the title for me. The game that Alexander sauntered into Cappielow, criticised McInally for picking Templeman ahead of Jason Walker and left with 3 points.

Much as I was never a fan of McInally, Alexander got right under my skin after that, and I’ve never had much sympathy for his misfortune since.

[dunning1874]

I think the point where the buzz was gone was actually from the start of the 06/07 season, despite the fact we ultimately did win the league, had the Kilmarnock and Motherwell games and still saw some irrationally massive crowds such as the Stranraer game when we were getting the trophy but the game was meaningless. You could tell from the first day of the season that the support were just drained of any enthusiasm. The poison of McInally's presence had created an us and them mentality between the fans and club by then, which he went out of his way to heighten, and there was no coming back from it.

[LargsTON]

4 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

one of the mothers shouted "aye, green and white wans"

Cow

[capitanus]

5 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

Even to the extent that just after the training started and they'd ordered strips, one of the coaches commented on how good the kids would look all dressed in their hoops, one of the mothers shouted "aye, green and white wans"

If I was the coach of that kids team I would have dropped her kid from the team indefinitely as a result of her actions.  

 

[SpoonTon]

I think it's fair to say that much of the initial buzz had faded by the time we botched the 04/05 season, and by the 06/07 season the feeling had changed. But I'd also say there were echoes of it at least up to that win at Firhill at the end of the 07/08 season. I feel like there was an even more distinctive change after that point. Even by the time of the 12/13 title challenge, only 4 or 5 years later, there wasn't that feeling of the 07/08 Firhill game. It was very different by then.

[Madton]

When I think back to that period, there were guys going every week with us, boys who we knew to be Celtic and Rangers fans but clearly bought into the good feel good factor around the town at the time. Once that dried up, they fucked off. On top of that, guys who were die hards hardly go anymore and that is why we are down to 1800 odd on  good day.

I'd like to think if we went through a Raith type take over, we'd have similar crowds to them but I'm not convinced the town fancies it any more.

When I think back to the Aberdeen cup semi, our biggest game in a generation, we struggled to about 4500 tickets. We had 5000 for a league 1 game against Gretna as mentioned above 10 years previous.

There's 20 odd primary schools in Inverclyde, there should be players going round them every week, handing out free tickets in bulk. One of the reasons I support Morton was because Stuart Rafferty( I know) came to my class to talk to us.

[Brian Skelton]

The support is out there if we can consistently be in the playoffs fans will start coming back.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Brian Skelton said:

The support is out there if we can consistently be in the playoffs fans will start coming back.

What was the average attendance the last time that Morton won the second tier? 

[Jamie_M]

2 hours ago, Brian Skelton said:

The support is out there if we can consistently be in the playoffs fans will start coming back.

The entirely wrong attitude.

[Toby]

2 hours ago, Brian Skelton said:

The support is out there if we can consistently be in the playoffs fans will start coming back.

Interested in the workings behind this.

Who are these people and what makes you think that if we can’t get them during a prolonged run of form like we had last season, they’ll all of a sudden come out the woodwork and start following the club on a regular enough basis for the increase in crowds to be significantly noticeable?

Is that all we need, a shot at promotion?

Or should the club be more pro-active in attracting fans (like the kids’ supporters group formed this summer)?

Why weren’t they bothering last season, or the season before, when we were in a strong position to make the play-offs at certain points in each season?

How many people are you talking about that are sitting waiting to return as regular supporters?

Has nothing changed since those days that we could command a bigger crowd? Cost of living? Depopulation? Increased influence of foreign leagues? The fallout from the death of Rangers? Increase in alternative leisure options? Changes in working patterns?

A sweeping statement such as this, with nothing to back it up, doesn’t really stand up to any serious scrutiny.

[vikingTON]

https://www.fitbastats.com/morton/club_records_league_attendance.php

Our attendance last season was easily the highest since COVID and not a kick in the baws away from our 2nd placed finish in 12/13. Given that we had no Saturday game against Dundee United and had no derby to speak of either, the idea that we're failing to draw crowds is utter, utter bullshit by any objective measurement. 

Here's the dirty secret that half the fanbase refuses to accept: Greenock Morton's core support has never been particularly large since the modern league setup was put in place in the 1970s. It was also - until very recently - a largely walk-up and pay culture, which worked well for the customer but explains why season ticket comparisons with other clubs are not relevant.

No gesture of 'ambishun' is necessary here. We need to grow the fanbase over time with initiatives like Team Ton for weans (also stop the moron, guardianship nonsense turning away under 16s on matchday at the gate). We did IMO miss a trick with the final dead rubber game last season to voucher weans and New Scots in the area to stop both slithering towards the ugly sisters. More can be done to grow the fanbase but the focus has to be on that - attracting new customers - rather than indulging the 30 year old myth that if only the team was slightly better then we'd be packing Cappielow out on a regular basis. That bullshit needs to die before we can actually have nice things. 

[vikingTON]

Case study: 25 years ago precisely - the 1988/89 season.

GMFC dropped down from the top flight and the subsequent league campaign proved mediocre by any definition, with a precisely 0 GD. While contriving to finish 5th in the table, we were significantly closer to the relegation zone than promotion. Sounds familiar. 

The average attendance in 88/89 was 2091 - a mere 30 people higher than the season just past. Despite Morton having played in the top tier of Scottish football in 7 of the previous 10 seasons. 

So much then for the fabled floating fanbase just waiting for relative success to back the club in their hordes; but by the same token, arguments like depopulation or economic decline are not supported by the figures either. The picture we see now is fundamentally the same as it has ever been. 

[capitanus]

We need to get that Fat Matt character to shout at people from a passing motor.  That's what Morton have been doing wrong all those years.

[capitanus]

12 hours ago, vikingTON said:

It was also - until very recently - a largely walk-up and pay culture, which worked well for the customer but explains why season ticket comparisons with other clubs are not relevant.

This.  I miss the 'pay at the gate' turnstiles where you could decide at the last minute to go along with a couple of tenners and get in easily.  Now its about going early to join a queue to get a ticket to join another queue where there's inadequate turnstiles, arguments with arsehole stewards etc.   It's all a bit offputting nowadays.

[LargsTON]

Defined ambition is what brings folk out.  Always has and always will.  Also tangible evidence of it ie marquee signings, serious investment.  Basically a meaningful statement of intent.  We were on a mission in the early years of the Rae tenure where he explicity stated our aim was the top league and it clearly wasn't empty words which is why everyone bought into it.   Sadly, under fan ownership this is extremely unlikely to happen again.  It is what it is I suppose.

[Alan_Partridge_Ton]

16 hours ago, capitanus said:

We need to get that Fat Matt character to shout at people from a passing motor.  That's what Morton have been doing wrong all those years.

Sounds like a job for none other than… Lord Volvic!

[TONofmemories]

I believe being able to convince folk there's some sort of resurgence/revolution at a football club goes a long way as well. Mostly now via social media. Raith have played an absolute blinder in that respect; got folk talking, been a bit controversial and largely had a bit of luck with a team pushing the boundaries. 

Folk buy into hype and good content and before you know it, it can carry you somewhere. 

We severely lack in that front.

[dunning1874]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:53 PM, capitanus said:

Inverness Caley Thistle have made an inspired choice of Manager, and this will be the start of great things for them and a great managerial career for Duncan Ferguson.

 

On 9/27/2023 at 9:05 AM, dunning1874 said:

I recall you having similar thoughts about our appointment of Jonatan Johansson, who did of course turn out to be an absolute donkey. It's possible you're just inclined to think someone who had an excellent playing career is always going to be a good manager when that evidently isn't the case.

 

On 9/27/2023 at 8:18 PM, capitanus said:

The difference between Duncan Ferguson and all of the above names is, well, he's Duncan Ferguson.  Whatever is wrong at Inverness he'll sort it out.  Nobody would fuck this guy around. The players will all look up to him and respect him, he's been there/seen it/done it and they'll WANT to give that bit extra for him, and prospective new signings will all WANT to play for him ahead of yet another Ian McCall type, and he'll be able to tap into the English market too.  Players will up sticks and head for the Highlands to play for this guy.  I wouldn't write him off on the basis of a dozen or so games at an over-achieved non-league outfit who are past their peak.  He's got something to prove and has just been given a platform to prove it.

Anyone heard how Duncan Ferguson's Inverness are getting on lately?

[Alibi]

2 hours ago, dunning1874 said:

 

 

Anyone heard how Duncan Ferguson's Inverness are getting on lately?

Bookies have made them favourites for the 25/26 League 2 title...

[Toby]

2 hours ago, dunning1874 said:

 

 

Anyone heard how Duncan Ferguson's Inverness are getting on lately?

There’s an irony in Paul trying to differentiate between “an over-achieved non-league outfit who are past their peak” and fucking Inverness.