Club statement- Gambling on football

[Toby]

See the Facebook group is full of the 'shock, horror, disgrace Morton sacking a good Morton man', type posts.

 

The fact he bet on Morton matches (even if it was just selecting us in a selection of draws which is deemed betting against us winning) and betting on who Morton would appoint when we had a managerial vacancy (whether he had insider info or not) probably swayed the decision and had it looked on more harshly.

I’ve not always got on with Andy down the years, but I’ve got to admit it doesn’t sit easy with me. It’s a matter of opinion if the punishment fits the crime, but I can’t help but think it’s excessive and could open a can of worms in the future.

 

It strikes me that he’s stupid rather than malicious in his actions, but to sack a guy after 40-45 years of service seems harsh. Of course we don’t know if he had any other disciplinary record in his time at the club, and the most damning thing is probably that the gambling was over a prolonged period, but it comes across as any excuse for out with the old and in with the new.

 

It suggests the writing’s on the wall for Allyson too, but what would happen if Nicky Cadden had had a wee FGS bet on Saturday? Is it the volume of bets that Andy’s been sacked for, making it okay for a player who’s a bit of an asset to fuck up from time to time?

 

Far better players than anyone in our squad, Joey Barton being the obvious example, have been caught gambling over a similar time period to Andy- if it was discovered one of our saleable assets did similar, would it be the same approach?

 

I see The Goon saying on Twitter about sacking a guy whose talked openly about his troubles with addiction, I suspect that was an attempt by Andy to keep his job, but it still isn’t a good look for Morton. And sacking him by letter, rather than a face-to-face meeting, is dreadful.

 

Out of interest, who started the thread on Facebook? Must be someone I’ve upset that’s blocked me as I can’t see anything.

[El gofer]

After his conduct on Facebook, I think the club have actually dealt with this properly.

How would they have communicated for him to be sacked face to face? By letter, email or text?

Or Facebook messenger?

Plenty of good *insert name of team* people at clubs all over the country who aren't fully paid employees and given testimonials.

His initial improper actions followed up by social media rants have led to this. He also has previous for this, nod nod wink wink, I know stuff sort of stuff. I remember him on the site a few years back

[Toby]

After his conduct on Facebook, I think the club have actually dealt with this properly.

How would they have communicated for him to be sacked face to face? By letter, email or text?

Or Facebook messenger?

Plenty of good *insert name of team* people at clubs all over the country who aren't fully paid employees and given testimonials.

His initial improper actions followed up by social media rants have led to this. He also has previous for this, nod nod wink wink, I know stuff sort of stuff. I remember him on the site a few years back

Pretty straight forward- you invite suspended employee in for an investigation meeting, weigh up the pros and cons and take appropriate action. If the employee doesn’t attend the meeting, you terminate their employment.

 

That may well have been what happened, but it doesn’t appear to be how it was reported. I remember about six months ago seeing my employers sack someone and thinking the way they went about it was despicable. Just because the employee has done wrong, it doesn’t mean the employer should drop their own standards. If anything, relieving an employee in a professional manner shows an organisation up in a good light.

[allyballybee]

Have to say I agree with Toby.

Not exactly the most heinous crime in the world although there is no doubt he has been incredibly stupid.

With the service he has given i think he was entitled to a face to face meeting.

The view that he is just a glorified laundry man so what is all the fuss about doesn’t cut it with me either. We are all human beings with failings and feelings regardless of their role in life.

Most decent employers these days try and support employees through their problems in particular those with addiction issues.

Bah humbug Morton.

[El gofer]

Pretty straight forward- you invite suspended employee in for an investigation meeting, weigh up the pros and cons and take appropriate action. If the employee doesn’t attend the meeting, you terminate their employment.

 

That may well have been what happened, but it doesn’t appear to be how it was reported. I remember about six months ago seeing my employers sack someone and thinking the way they went about it was despicable. Just because the employee has done wrong, it doesn’t mean the employer should drop their own standards. If anything, relieving an employee in a professional manner shows an organisation up in a good light.

Fair point.

Would be interesting to know how the initial suspension was communicated

Thing is, there has been an Sfa ruling on him and the Social Media conduct may also have meant he was in breach of suspension conditions. I wouldn't imagine he would have thought he would have been back anyway.

All supposition from myself, though. All points towards a developing theme of the club not owning the message and allowing for conversations such as this.

Again, I absolutely take your point about doing things the proper way.

[pink_panther]

The vacancy is on website already.Pity they could post the latest scores reports etc so quick

[Jamie_M]

I’ve not always got on with Andy down the years, but I’ve got to admit it doesn’t sit easy with me. It’s a matter of opinion if the punishment fits the crime, but I can’t help but think it’s excessive and could open a can of worms in the future.

 

It strikes me that he’s stupid rather than malicious in his actions, but to sack a guy after 40-45 years of service seems harsh. Of course we don’t know if he had any other disciplinary record in his time at the club, and the most damning thing is probably that the gambling was over a prolonged period, but it comes across as any excuse for out with the old and in with the new.

 

It suggests the writing’s on the wall for Allyson too, but what would happen if Nicky Cadden had had a wee FGS bet on Saturday? Is it the volume of bets that Andy’s been sacked for, making it okay for a player who’s a bit of an asset to fuck up from time to time?

 

Far better players than anyone in our squad, Joey Barton being the obvious example, have been caught gambling over a similar time period to Andy- if it was discovered one of our saleable assets did similar, would it be the same approach?

 

I see The Goon saying on Twitter about sacking a guy whose talked openly about his troubles with addiction, I suspect that was an attempt by Andy to keep his job, but it still isn’t a good look for Morton. And sacking him by letter, rather than a face-to-face meeting, is dreadful.

 

Out of interest, who started the thread on Facebook? Must be someone I’ve upset that’s blocked me as I can’t see anything.

Louise Rodgers

[RealTonKid]

There’s a way of doing things, but invariably Morton seem to choose the wrong approach. Crawford treating Cappielow like his sweat sweetie factory. No wonder there’s a high turnover of staff, if that’s how he conducts his business.

[TRVMP]

Sacking by letter is shitebag behavior. A man deserves a face-to-face meeting or at the absolute minimum a live phone call if he's being sacked.

 

I don't have much of an opinion on the actual sacking itself. The club's hands could have been tied by its own code of conduct, or it could be legal advice, or maybe they just fancied getting rid and bringing in someone cheaper and this was a painless way to do it. But it's not nice to see someone lose their work unless they've done something truly beyond the pale. And if it does happen, they deserve to hear it in person with a look in the eye.

 

On the flip side, I don't think there will be many clubs out there who have done things like give testimonials and double wages for their kit staff, so over the course of his entire employment I think Bryan did very well out of Morton. That doesn't excuse what happened here, though.

[vikingTON]

Have to say I agree with Toby.

Not exactly the most heinous crime in the world although there is no doubt he has been incredibly stupid.

With the service he has given i think he was entitled to a face to face meeting.

The view that he is just a glorified laundry man so what is all the fuss about doesn’t cut it with me either. We are all human beings with failings and feelings regardless of their role in life.

Most decent employers these days try and support employees through their problems in particular those with addiction issues.

Bah humbug Morton.

If an employee disclosed addiction issues while their position is secure then an employer should of course provide appropriate support. If an employee cites addiction only after they’ve been caught dragging their employer into disrepute or any other such sackable offence then there is no such onus, and that’s what we’re dealing with here.

 

You’d think that the club having been embroiled in just the two ‘betting scandal’ furores under the Raes alone would have been sufficient warning as well. Between that and throwing his toys out of the pram all over social media when he was under suspension I have absolutely no sympathy.

[vikingTON]

There’s a way of doing things, but invariably Morton seem to choose the wrong approach. Crawford treating Cappielow like his sweat sweetie factory. No wonder there’s a high turnover of staff, if that’s how he conducts his business.

Why shouldn’t the club be run more like a successful (enough) business, as opposed to the glorified members’ club/giant money sieve that it has resembled in the past two decades? So long as the same logic applies to all staff performances and we’re not simply exchanging one set of protected flunkies for another, more power to that long overdue change in approach.

[capitanus]

Out of interest, who started the thread on Facebook? Must be someone I’ve upset that’s blocked me as I can’t see anything.

Louise Rodgers

What could you have possibly have done to upset her?

[capitanus]

Sacking by letter is shitebag behavior. A man deserves a face-to-face meeting or at the absolute minimum a live phone call if he's being sacked.

 

I don't have much of an opinion on the actual sacking itself. The club's hands could have been tied by its own code of conduct, or it could be legal advice, or maybe they just fancied getting rid and bringing in someone cheaper and this was a painless way to do it. But it's not nice to see someone lose their work unless they've done something truly beyond the pale. And if it does happen, they deserve to hear it in person with a look in the eye.

 

On the flip side, I don't think there will be many clubs out there who have done things like give testimonials and double wages for their kit staff, so over the course of his entire employment I think Bryan did very well out of Morton. That doesn't excuse what happened here, though.

This.

 

Andy Bryan done well out of Morton over the years, and he has probably had something of a charmed life as a result, being in and around the club you love on a daily basis, getting to travel about the country watching football and getting paid for it, becoming a local celebrity as a result - he'd have had many a free pint or invites to functions etc as a result of his involvement at Cappielow; but all good things come to an end someday. Sadly for him, this was that day.

 

He probably knew that himself, but he'll be kicking himself at just exactly how it all came about, for which he only has himself to blame.

 

Andy has been a good servant for Morton too, here's wishing him well for the future - he's a popular person despite any recent shortcomings and he'll have no problem finding work locally - and here's hoping that Morton can get someone like him who will be as passionate about his job for the next 20 odd years.

[capitanus]

Why shouldn’t the club be run more like a successful (enough) business, as opposed to the glorified members’ club/giant money sieve that it has resembled in the past two decades? So long as the same logic applies to all staff performances and we’re not simply exchanging one set of protected flunkies for another, more power to that long overdue change in approach.

Why don't you apply for the job? It would be piss easy for a guy of your intellect, and with it not being taxing on the brain, it would give you plenty of time to think about your fact based analytical contributions to various messageboards, and travelling the country in a farting Charabanc to watch the team. You could also dispense your superior knowledge and wisdom to Hoopy in the dugout.

 

I think it's a no-brainer.

[TheGoon]

I’m uneasy about the full thing. If the guy had shown zero remorse for what he’d done and wasn’t undergoing treatment then fine, but while he is it isn’t a good look at all to be getting rid imo. I’m not sure what he said on Facebook or Twitter about the whole affair, commenting on it to begin with is just stupid, but again I’m not sure he should be getting terminated (by letter) over it.

[TaunTon]

The guy might have got away with a slap on the wrist if he hadn't been such a thick twat on social media. No sympathy.

[TRVMP]

The guy might have got away with a slap on the wrist if he hadn't been such a thick twat on social media. No sympathy.

 

I do see the point in this but at the same time I have some sympathy. Not to put words in the guy's mouth but this went on for a long time, the betting and posting about it, and if nobody at the club said a word about it, and he knew other people in football - including at Morton - put a coupon on every now and again, he probably felt it wasn't a big deal. Then one day it suddenly was a big deal, a massive one, and it resulted in his unemployment. Is it the club's responsibility to police employees' social media accounts? No, particularly when they're not members of the playing or coaching staff. But I find it hard to believe that nobody at the club couldn't have nipped this in the bud a long time ago if they felt that it was inappropriate.

 

A lot of things in life just toddle on brilliantly, until they don't. This seems to have been one of those things. Andy carries the majority of the responsibility for it, but the club hasn't (in this specific case) done him many favors.

 

There will be dozens of people across Scotland right now thinking there but for the grace of God go they. A couple of them have been suitably naive as to put their exploits on social media; even if some frantic deletion has gone on, bits and pieces are still out there. I don't think everyone who's even done this deserves to lose their job over it.

[RealTonKid]

The vacancy is on website already.Pity they could post the latest scores reports etc so quick

 

They should probably consider updating the website, while advertising the vacancy.

[dunning1874]

tl;dr - everyone comes out of this looking bad and the club could have handled this much better whether you agree with sacking him or not

 

I have sympathy and criticism for both parties here. Obviously Andy Bryan has an addiction, the seriousness of that shouldn't be forgotten or trivialised and he should be supported in getting treatment for it. However, does that also mean the club simply have to keep him in his job no matter what? No one batted an eyelid when Dean Brett was sacked by Cowdenbeath after his gambling was declared for example, and if you look away from gambling to other addictions you'll find far more players being sacked by clubs for drug use than kept on as they undergo rehabilitation and serve lengthy bans.

 

Does the need to show understanding of his issues also involve ignoring the damage done to the club's reputation by betting against us as an employee, bringing the club and the game into disrepute? There's been many mentions of Dougie Rae in the various reactions to this and how he wouldn't have gone down this road, but on that note it's also been widely implied over the years that Alex Williams was helped by the club when dealing with his own gambling addiction. If that's true, keeping the individual around, helping him with his debts and keeping it hushed up in that case really didn't help the club or more importantly the individual dealing with an addiction in the long term, did it?

 

When you consider that Andy Bryan also talked to a national newspaper while suspended (presumably without the knowledge of the club) and there was evidence he knew what he was doing for all these years was against the rules, you can see why the club could feel they've been left with absolutely no choice here despite not wanting to throw someone dealing with an addiction on the scrapheap.

 

However, even though I can understand the decision to sack him, the way they've done it if the report is true is pretty terrible. Toby has summed it up nicely - even where an employee's own standards have fallen for whatever reason to the point where disciplinary action and/or dismissal is considered, an employer has to maintain their own professionalism in dealing with that. Perhaps it'll come out that he had previously been invited to a meeting and failed to attend, but if sacking an employee by a letter was the first resort for the club that's not acceptable.

 

Whether that's true or not, it's total amateur hour to follow the sacking up with shoving out a tweet saying 'Vacany Kit Manager' with a link to the homepage of the website, then deleting the tweet and managing to put it out again with the correct spelling of 'Vacancy' and a link to the actual job advert, which looks like it's been written by an 8 year old. Bearing in mind the story was already in a national newspaper, would it have been that hard to put out a very brief statement confirming his sacking before firing out a tweet advertising the post?

 

Even if in the circumstances they didn't want to go into thanking him for his service or say anything about providing support in dealing with his gambling problems despite terminating his employment, words to the effect of 'Greenock Morton can confirm that Andy Bryan has been dismissed from his post following an investigation, the club will make no further comment' would have done. You'd still have had fans complaining that he shouldn't have been sacked but the club wouldn't have looked incompetent. Instead, here we are.

[Ray Von]

Back when I used to do the turnstiles about 80-90% of the players, and Andy Bryan, would be in that wee room under the stand showing each other coupons for the day, and talking about bets they had placed in the early kick off.

They would do it openly in front of then managers and chief executives, I always thought bit strange that no one said anything, they must have known it wasn’t allowed.