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2 hours ago, TRVMP said:

Right, that's it confirmed, you have absolutely no idea about anything in this conversation.

I wouldn't have any clue whatsoever as to what the ground is worth. Perhaps you can enlighten us as....rateable value was the incorrect wording I should have said taxable value tbf

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Kafka's head would be spinning at this. You're arguing that these proposals are designed to 'shield the stadium from creditors' when they consist of either the stadium being used as security for

Before getting into the lengthy wrongs and wrongs of this on GC's part, on a simple matter of fact, why are they talking about £2M being the figure of debt? As I understood it the debt was £2.5M when

Well this statement is not ageing particularly well, given that in spite of receiving a £500k taxpayer's grant for literally fuck-all, the current custodians of GMFC have in the following six weeks:

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10 minutes ago, Nornirontons said:

I wouldn't have any clue whatsoever as to what the ground is worth. Perhaps you can enlighten us as....rateable value was the incorrect wording I should have said taxable value tbf

Rateable value is perceived rental potential. It correlates only partially with the value of the property itself. Give or take a few percent here and there, the rates are half of what you could expect to make on renting the property. Rates are annualized; the monthly cost would be significantly less than that of a single senior first-team player, once wages, bonuses etc. are all taken into account. It's not a null figure, and indeed if the club became more successful (ha!) and improved both its facilities and its gates, and raised prices, and had more off-field income, that number would only increase. But it is in the grand scheme of things not significant compared to the much more serious costs of maintenance and repair, not to mention improvement.

Edited by TRVMP
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The stadium was just resting in my account

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As I stated previously through a quick Google...which I'm sure you can do. There are ways of writing off maintenance through tax breaks. There is no way I could see of getting out of paying 5% of the total value of the property when you take ownership. The government want there candy.

I may fumble about but that must be a more pressing issue if MCT are to get ownership...yes? No? Would it not be that significant an outlay? I've no clue tbh

I read you have some idea of the current rates so do you or anyone have some idea of the valuation of the ground that the rates are based on?

Edited by Nornirontons
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16 minutes ago, Nornirontons said:

As I stated previously through a quick Google...which I'm sure you can do. There are ways of writing off maintenance through tax breaks. There is no way I could see of getting out of paying 5% of the total value of the property when you take ownership. The government want there candy.

I may fumble about but that must be a more pressing issue if MCT are to get ownership...yes? No? Would it not be that significant an outlay? I've no clue tbh

I read you have some idea of the current rates so do you or anyone have some idea of the valuation of the ground that the rates are based on?

Rates are public info, just type in Cappielow's postcode (PA15 2TU) here:

https://www.mygov.scot/non-domestic-rates-calculator/#introduction

Absolutely there are ways of writing off maintenance (I wonder if these are easier for owners than renters, come to think of it?) but it's still a pretty big expenditure to get the safety certificate each year.

The stadium was just resting in my account

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On my quick Google it was purely based on ownership. 

Which does give you the question if you can get a tax break from it why would MCT have to take it on? To much work for GC? Just another two fingered salute to the fans?

Like a lot of things more questions than answers!!

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I have no doubt there's things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about but my concern is that GC are setting the terms of the conversation, and all MCT can do is react to them.

The stadium was just resting in my account

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So the fans have spoken and according to the Administrator, 80 odd percent prefer the 3rd option which is...what.

Consider this option

It would not be unreasonable to assume, maybe CR will simply say F*CKIT, I'm losing money hand over fist and no end in sight. Best thing for me is to shut the doors and let whoever wants to deal with it deal with it. As far as everything else goes after that, well its on them not me. If he does decide to do that, well we would be well and truly F'd.

Lets be honest, end of this season, no-one on the payroll and no-one to lookout for or consider, just how hard would it be to close the place down? A lot easier than CR is getting it now. 

I really don't think anyone who is shouting for the 3rd option, really knows what to expect after the "deal" is done. How would you propose funding the season? How about all of the up front payments just to get the club prepared for next season...........Where is the money coming from? The club is on life-support and we really need to rely on MCT to get us the best deal possible. 

Now before I start getting sh*te from the usual folks, I'm simply stating an option that is available to CR. If the club was in any other business, the shutters would have been pulled down a long time ago. 

Ponder this though, no fans, no commercial activity, no TV, sponsorship threatened, no income....who in their right mind would want to own a football club.

We're all scunnered with the situation. IMO the bottom line is we either agree to either of the options presented or walk permanently away. 

 

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2 hours ago, WhowouldbeaMortonfan said:

It would not be unreasonable to assume, maybe CR will simply say F*CKIT, I'm losing money hand over fist and no end in sight. Best thing for me is to shut the doors and let whoever wants to deal with it deal with it. As far as everything else goes after that, well its on them not me. If he does decide to do that, well we would be well and truly F'd.

You're presupposing that there's no other buyer waiting in the wings. According to MCT last July, GC turned down a more financially advantageous offer than the MCT one. Would they possibly resume their interest? Would anyone else be interested?

I mean if this is how Rae supporters want GC's offer to be seen - pick Option 1, Option 2, or we kill the club - that's absolutely fine with me. It's just not that realistic, is it? As in, we know there's at least one other interested party. As such MCT shouldn't fall for such obvious guilt-tripping.

This is quite aside from the obvious fact that if our 147-year-old institution should come to an end, the blame lies 100% with the Rae family and 0% with MCT or the support. I doubt that'll keep them up at night - none of them have shown the slightest iota of conscience before so they're hardly going to start now - but it's not a great look for their acolytes, is it?

Quote

Lets be honest, end of this season, no-one on the payroll and no-one to lookout for or consider, just how hard would it be to close the place down? A lot easier than CR is getting it now. 

How is he "getting it" now, exactly? From what I can see he's about to gain a significant parcel of land in exchange for writing off a debt that he had no realistic chance of recovering in total, completely at odds with statements his family has made in the past. To secure this gain he's faced the slings and arrows of... well, absolutely no consequence whatsoever. Can you elucidate exactly what he's "getting" and why it's supposed to be so onerous for him? If this is a bad situation for him I'd love to see what a good one looks like.

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The stadium was just resting in my account

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15 minutes ago, WhowouldbeaMortonfan said:

So the fans have spoken and according to the Administrator, 80 odd percent prefer the 3rd option which is...what.

Consider this option

It would not be unreasonable to assume, maybe CR will simply say F*CKIT, I'm losing money hand over fist and no end in sight. Best thing for me is to shut the doors and let whoever wants to deal with it deal with it. As far as everything else goes after that, well its on them not me. If he does decide to do that, well we would be well and truly F'd.

Lets be honest, end of this season, no-one on the payroll and no-one to lookout for or consider, just how hard would it be to close the place down? A lot easier than CR is getting it now. 

I really don't think anyone who is shouting for the 3rd option, really knows what to expect after the "deal" is done. How would you propose funding the season? How about all of the up front payments just to get the club prepared for next season...........Where is the money coming from? The club is on life-support and we really need to rely on MCT to get us the best deal possible. 

Now before I start getting sh*te from the usual folks, I'm simply stating an option that is available to CR. If the club was in any other business, the shutters would have been pulled down a long time ago. 

Ponder this though, no fans, no commercial activity, no TV, sponsorship threatened, no income....who in their right mind would want to own a football club.

We're all scunnered with the situation. IMO the bottom line is we either agree to either of the options presented or walk permanently away. 

 

^^ Rae family fan club. 

The only point i acknowledge is the part about who would want to own a football club. Granted - probably no one; especially at our level, but lets not let that get in the way of the facts; we've been horribly miss-managed since the Rae's took over, all be it we had what appeared to be some good years and for a few years showed some real ambition (granted, it was flawed) of getting to top-flight. We've done absolutely hee-haw to raise additional income through marketing etc since the Rae family became involved. See: "bring a friend" as a marketing strategy.  We've over-spent, we've offered players deals without managers even know, then it turns out they cant even play (Tidser) etc etc etc. All of this under the Rae tenure. Debt, although apparently never to be recalled, has been racked up and now, that Dougies gone, his family are calling the shots and want it called back in. 

Years and years of a millionaire throwing money around senselessly, left to a golfer with zero interest in his late fathers cuddly toy, we are where we are. 

Wake up, take yer head out the Rae's arse and smell the rat; we're getting royally shafted here. 

Not acceptable! 

 

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TIME FOR CHANGE!

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9 hours ago, TONofmemories said:

A few hundred fluffers that actually took him at face value. Ooooooft, sucks to be them. 

Think this is well wide of the mark. As an MCT member the objective is to get shot of GC and I'd reject both proposals they've put forward. I'm taking no one at face value and will only vote for an option that's good for Morton long term.

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Peter Weatherson is the greatest player since Ritchie, and should be assigned 'chairman for life' 


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6 hours ago, WhowouldbeaMortonfan said:

So the fans have spoken and according to the Administrator, 80 odd percent prefer the 3rd option which is...what.

Consider this option

It would not be unreasonable to assume, maybe CR will simply say F*CKIT, I'm losing money hand over fist and no end in sight. Best thing for me is to shut the doors and let whoever wants to deal with it deal with it. As far as everything else goes after that, well its on them not me. If he does decide to do that, well we would be well and truly F'd.

Lets be honest, end of this season, no-one on the payroll and no-one to lookout for or consider, just how hard would it be to close the place down? A lot easier than CR is getting it now. 

 

Does Crawford have a cunning plan to hoist his sweetie factory out of the ground and spirit it away from Fort Matilda as well, like the Soviets moving their tank factories by train to get them away from the Germans? Because that's the only way that your pint-sized Hugh Scott exercise wouldn't spectacularly backfire in the face of that stupid wee company. 

As it is though, I suspect that one* of the reasons for this intransigence on GC's part is that things can not be looking rosey for them either. A slump in the wider economy of nearly 10%, tied to rolling lockdowns that remove their key 'nippy wean on a family day out' target demographic from the picture, plus any export issues caused by Brexit is a far bigger challenge than still being in control of a football club. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* in addition to being shameless liars and grasping chancers

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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49 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Does Crawford have a cunning plan to hoist his sweetie factory out of the ground and spirit it away from Fort Matilda as well, like the Soviets moving their tank factories by train to get them away from the Germans? Because that's the only way that your pint-sized Hugh Scott exercise wouldn't spectacularly backfire in the face of that stupid wee company. 

As it is though, I suspect that one* of the reasons for this intransigence on GC's part is that things can not be looking rosey for them either. A slump in the wider economy of nearly 10%, tied to rolling lockdowns that remove their key 'nippy wean on a family day out' target demographic from the picture, plus any export issues caused by Brexit is a far bigger challenge than still being in control of a football club. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* in addition to being shameless liars and grasping chancers

Pure speculation here - shifting a significant asset and writing off a big lump of bad debt at the same time would be tricky at the best of times for a small/medium sized firm without creating major issues in terms of existing/potential borrowing.

Would a situation like brexit/covid/recession make this any easier? When a business might need a bit more borrowing power than usual?

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12 hours ago, TRVMP said:

Rateable value is perceived rental potential. It correlates only partially with the value of the property itself. Give or take a few percent here and there, the rates are half of what you could expect to make on renting the property. Rates are annualized; the monthly cost would be significantly less than that of a single senior first-team player, once wages, bonuses etc. are all taken into account. It's not a null figure, and indeed if the club became more successful (ha!) and improved both its facilities and its gates, and raised prices, and had more off-field income, that number would only increase. But it is in the grand scheme of things not significant compared to the much more serious costs of maintenance and repair, not to mention improvement.

The RV does not necessarily correlate with capital value especially in regard to football stadium. The underlying valuation process is merely a convenient 'get out of jail' basis to justify a figure when there is a lack of comparative evidence. I do, however, agree at RV £19,000 it should not be the focus of attention for anyone. The 'real' issue is GC in their benevolence is ensuring MCT never own the property assets or alternatively has to accept £2m of debt.

11 hours ago, Nornirontons said:

I read you have some idea of the current rates so do you or anyone have some idea of the valuation of the ground that the rates are based on?

The historic valuation of the ground on a 'cost' related basis is in the accounts. Updating the figure on this basis serves no useful purpose. As Trump has highlighted elsewhere the point to note is what did GC paid for GMFC when DDFR rode to the rescue on his white charger. 

It appears to me some fans are too eager to be bent over the Boardroom table, thanking their master/GC for a right good shafting before paying for the privilege.

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6 hours ago, GiGi said:

Think this is well wide of the mark. As an MCT member the objective is to get shot of GC and I'd reject both proposals they've put forward. I'm taking no one at face value and will only vote for an option that's good for Morton long term.

I was talking about folk believing Crawford when someone mentioned the night in the gamble halls..

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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59 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

Recruiting a new SLO at the minute feels very stable door/horse bolted. Weird timing 

Maybe we're going for Silver licensing or something? Our First Team licensing went up from Bronze to Silver in the last assessment. No idea otherwise. Maybe the MCT guys on the board wanted it?

Also: 

 

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The stadium was just resting in my account

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I'm simply saying IMO, I think its far too late to bring other options to the table, which don't involve GC walking away from a significant asset.

Again, IMO the scenario of GC walking away is never going to happen and the sooner we get to that realization the sooner we can make the decision to prepare for next season or call it a day.

The new season is a few months away and if a deal cannot be reached...well lets face it, it could be disaster. Not just in footballing terms, but I think we may not get to next season based on the current economic outlook and general malaise associated with the whole business.

I really hope its not the case, but the fact is we need to make a decision now and stop greetin about woulda, coulda, shoulda.

We need action NOW if Greenock Morton is to make it through this disasterous period in its history.

 

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As I said, the Rae acolytes are trying to run down the clock. They're not doing this in good faith - they're doing this because they know their terms are massively unreasonable, hugely unpopular with the fans, and not something any other party would agree to. Don't fall for it. Hold the line. The responsibility for this "disasterous period" lies 100% with the Rae family, nobody else, and if they don't want to fix it, the consequences belong to them.

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The stadium was just resting in my account

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A new signing and an SLO announcement following hard on the heels of the fans poll and a notable increase in the pressure on Rae amid questions regarding the 500K and calculations of the £2m figure. I'm shocked.  

"CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND"

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