Stewards v Arbroath

[sax man]

Witnessed some bizarre and stupid decision making from stewards today.  On the very day we’ve welcomed under 15’s for free into the stadium under supervision of an adult.   

Usual second half, lots of kids run behind to be behind the Sinclair St goal.  They were generating some +ve atmosphere and looked like around 60 kids.  
 

 I watched as stewards were on the terrace, attempting to push kids back away from the pitch side wall.  A line of five stewards standing on the terrace to keep kids away from getting too close to the wall ?

Whoever was in charge needs their head shaken.  Stewards in the wrong place, getting hands on the kids to manoeuvre them - just the wrong approach and showing significant inexperience.  You don’t put hands on kids……unless you’ve good reason to eject them.  

Half way through the second half, five stewards retreated onto the track (where they should have been in the first place) but still a line of five, blocking views of youngsters.  

I despair at these clowns in charge of the stewards………

[irnbru]

54 minutes ago, sax man said:

Witnessed some bizarre and stupid decision making from stewards today.  On the very day we’ve welcomed under 15’s for free into the stadium under supervision of an adult.   

Usual second half, lots of kids run behind to be behind the Sinclair St goal.  They were generating some +ve atmosphere and looked like around 60 kids.  
 

 I watched as stewards were on the terrace, attempting to push kids back away from the pitch side wall.  A line of five stewards standing on the terrace to keep kids away from getting too close to the wall ?

Whoever was in charge needs their head shaken.  Stewards in the wrong place, getting hands on the kids to manoeuvre them - just the wrong approach and showing significant inexperience.  You don’t put hands on kids……unless you’ve good reason to eject them.  

Half way through the second half, five stewards retreated onto the track (where they should have been in the first place) but still a line of five, blocking views of youngsters.  

I despair at these clowns in charge of the stewards………

Saw a guy collapse at the start of the game (who was thankfully OK in the end) but they looked pretty slow to react there too. 

[gmfc23]

Let's be honest the first aid guys weren't exactly rushing to the scene. 

 

On the stewards today the head one in particular. A guy in front of us in the queue turns up at the scanner aw I've no battery left in my phone. Two options send him packing its his problem he's no charge in his phone and carry on getting people in or two she knows the guy he's a season ticket holder radios over and double checks that he's on the season ticket list gets confirmed by the ticket office and let's him. 

I've had run ins with the stewards in the past but more of this sensible stewarding going forward please. 

 

[The Bewilderedbeast]

25 minutes ago, gmfc23 said:

Let's be honest the first aid guys weren't exactly rushing to the scene. 

 

On the stewards today the head one in particular. A guy in front of us in the queue turns up at the scanner aw I've no battery left in my phone. Two options send him packing its his problem he's no charge in his phone and carry on getting people in or two she knows the guy he's a season ticket holder radios over and double checks that he's on the season ticket list gets confirmed by the ticket office and let's him. 

I've had run ins with the stewards in the past but more of this sensible stewarding going forward please. 

 

Exactly the reason I got a physical card

[Toby]

1 hour ago, gmfc23 said:

Let's be honest the first aid guys weren't exactly rushing to the scene. 

 

On the stewards today the head one in particular. A guy in front of us in the queue turns up at the scanner aw I've no battery left in my phone. Two options send him packing its his problem he's no charge in his phone and carry on getting people in or two she knows the guy he's a season ticket holder radios over and double checks that he's on the season ticket list gets confirmed by the ticket office and let's him. 

I've had run ins with the stewards in the past but more of this sensible stewarding going forward please. 

 

The problem with the head steward is that she’s all shit or all sugar.

There’s been plenty of moans about her for years now, and after every incident that garners a bit of attention, you walk out onto Sinclair Street at full time to see her smiling face wishing you a nice weekend. It’s become a recurring joke between my mates and I that she must’ve had her knuckles rapped for her carry on at the previous home game, before she goes back to arsehole mode a fortnight later.

Good to hear of sensible stewarding on this occasion, but I’m sure she’ll revert to type soon enough- probably the next home game when she and her stewards are asked to do some proper work for a change to deal with a big crowd.

I was interested to hear that General Manager talking about making visiting Cappielow a pleasant experience for folk- he’ll have to do a hell of a lot of work on his stewards’ behaviours for that to happen.

And while we’re at it, I walked down through the tunnel to the game today to saw him standing around outside the main stand entrance greeting a few folk. That’s not the problem area. I’d have expected that with the fiasco of the Partick game that anyone in a position of responsibility would be right in about the problem areas trying to look at procedures, problems, actions, reactions and solutions.

Alas, I was wrong.

[TONofmemories]

Tried to take my 1 and half year old water bottle off him in place of a plastic cup. Not a chance 

[vikingTON]

Not disputing the original post at all, but I went behind the goal for the Bo'ness cup game and thought the steward did a really good job being laid back around a bunch of annoying (not causing any trouble, just your standard annoyance-level) weans. So I'd say it's more of an individual steward issue in terms of interpretation and/or patience, although you could add a point about the lack of a consistent policy. 

Good on the young (young) team behind the goal at the end today though - seemed to enjoy the game more than a fair few of us today! We can't turn away the future fan base of the club. 

[capitanus]

2 hours ago, TONofmemories said:

Tried to take my 1 and half year old water bottle off him in place of a plastic cup. Not a chance 

what you doing wandering about with an 18 month old bottle of water?  Get a fresh one.

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, Toby said:

And while we’re at it, I walked down through the tunnel to the game today to saw him standing around outside the main stand entrance greeting a few folk. That’s not the problem area. I’d have expected that with the fiasco of the Partick game that anyone in a position of responsibility would be right in about the problem areas trying to look at procedures, problems, actions, reactions and solutions.

Alas, I was wrong.

If some of the old turnstiles are in fact being chiselled out of storage as rumoured today  - preferably by Warren Hawke and his cheerleaders, from a gulag camp in the car park, using a single toothbrush between them - and combined with handheld scanners then we don't need a publicity stunt tour though.

Not suggesting that's what you're arguing for, but *if* a credible solution is finally being made then we don't actually need a lame PR job of observing queue formations and all the other bullshit excuses previously used to deflect from the basic arithmetic error* of having a maximum of 4 entry points to meet demand for up to 6,000 people. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Reflecting on Iron Man's moronic white elephant scheme makes me want to remove the luxury of that toothbrush and require them to use their tongue instead.

Edited January 28 by vikingTON

[The Bewilderedbeast]

12 hours ago, Toby said:

The problem with the head steward is that she’s all shit or all sugar.

Nail hit fairly and squarely on the head.

[Toby]

A pal of mine who supports Dundee United was denied entry last night because he was late in turning up at the ground.

Not that it should need explaining, but when in the Norseman he had to deal with a phone call that was a bit of a family emergency, and by the time he got round to leaving to go to the ground, the gates were all locked.

He approached a steward to see if he could gain entry to the ground and the steward radioed his supervisor, who said under no circumstances would he be allowed in, despite having no idea of the circumstances surrounding his late arrival, and the fact that he had bought a valid match ticket.

It will come as no surprise that he described the supervisor on the other end of the radio as female and “very aggressive” in her tone. Said supervisor did not, of course, attend the scene in person to explain why my pal wouldn’t be getting in.

I understand there may be a cut off point to get entry to a game, but to be told that “under no circumstances” will he be permitted entry, is completely unacceptable imho. People encounter issues in their day-to-day lives, being treated like that be someone whose job role is customer service shouldn't happen, and was an embarrassment to me when he told me how my club were treating him.

I doubt it’ll take much joining up of dots to establish who the female supervisor is, and I’m 99.99% sure that it was the same woman who we constantly complain about on here.

It’s about time she lost her job.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

4 minutes ago, Toby said:

A pal of mine who supports Dundee United was denied entry last night because he was late in turning up at the ground.

Not that it should need explaining, but when in the Norseman he had to deal with a phone call that was a bit of a family emergency, and by the time he got round to leaving to go to the ground, the gates were all locked.

He approached a steward to see if he could gain entry to the ground and the steward radioed his supervisor, who said under no circumstances would he be allowed in, despite having no idea of the circumstances surrounding his late arrival, and the fact that he had bought a valid match ticket.

It will come as no surprise that he described the supervisor on the other end of the radio as female and “very aggressive” in her tone. Said supervisor did not, of course, attend the scene in person to explain why my pal wouldn’t be getting in.

I understand there may be a cut off point to get entry to a game, but to be told that “under no circumstances” will he be permitted entry, is completely unacceptable imho. People encounter issues in their day-to-day lives, being treated like that be someone whose job role is customer service shouldn't happen, and was an embarrassment to me when he told me how my club were treating him.

I doubt it’ll take much joining up of dots to establish who the female supervisor is, and I’m 99.99% sure that it was the same woman who we constantly complain about on here.

It’s about time she lost her job.

That's pish poor. There can be a multitude of perfectly valid reasons for arriving late, especially if travelling a distance, so to have a blanket rule like that with no exceptions irrespective of the circumstances, is shite in the extreme. 

[Jamie_M]

Why would there be a cutoff though?

If someone wants to pay full price for a ticket and rock up late - even just for the 2nd half for example, why shouldn't they be able to?

Edited March 6 by Jamie_M

[RealTonKid]

It’s not as if it was heaving last night, so he should’ve been able to get in, if the stewards were more accommodating. Their attitude only serves to drive customers/potential customers away.

[The Bewilderedbeast]

When I complained about said female steward telling me to take my grandson off the barrier with 89 and  a half minutes gone, a club employee told me that the ground was "signed over" to the stewarding company until approximately an hour after the game was completed, and that therefore the stewarding were responsible for the stadium and that GMFC were not.

He further stated that this was one of the most frequent scenarios he encountered, people (including ST holders) turning up late, for whatever reason, and being refused entry by stewards. He said he often got phone calls from folk in this situation asking to get in, but given that the stewards were "in charge of the stadium" there was nothing he could do.

TBH I didn't believe him at the time, but this adds a bit of truth to that now.

It's something that I'll be raising at the QandA session with the board later in the month.

Edited March 6 by The Bewilderedbeast

[Toby]

21 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

When I complained about said female steward telling me to take my grandson off the barrier with 89 and  a half minutes gone, a club employee told me that the ground was "signed over" to the stewarding company until approximately an hour after the game was completed, and that therefore the stewarding were responsible for the stadium and that GMFC were not.

He further stated that this was one of the most frequent scenarios he encountered, people (including ST holders) turning up late, for whatever reason, and being refused entry by stewards. He said he often got phone calls from folk in this situation asking to get in, but given that the stewards were "in charge of the stadium" there was nothing he could do.

TBH I didn't believe him at the time, but this adds a bit of truth to that now.

It's something that I'll be raising at the QandA session with the board later in the month.

I don’t doubt what you’ve said is true, and fair enough if that’s how the contract with the security company works.

But that doesn’t justify their staff being rude and obstructive to paying customers, and their performance as a subcontractor, and the performance of their staff has to come under some form of regular review, even if things are going well. And given the amount of complaints from various different people, the performance of their staff simply isn’t up to scratch.

My mate had bought ten tickets for him and all his pals, so couldn’t be refunded for his individual ticket immediately, but after I emailed the club and included him in the email, they’ve taken his details and will process his refund this week, although he and I are still waiting to hear the thoughts of the General Manager about the issues I raised.

Good enough of the club to refund him for his ticket, but we now have this woman costing the club his £22 because of her attitude. How often do things like this happen? Can Morton afford to just throw money away because someone who is working on the club’s behalf has an attitude problem?

As a club for whom it’s common knowledge that every penny is prisoner, it is negligent in the extreme not to thoroughly investigate the behaviour of someone who is working on their behalf actively driving paying customers away.

[The Bewilderedbeast]

That's actually one of the points I intend raising. 

If we use myself as an example.....

 

I've been attending Cappielow for more than 50 years, I've held saeaon tickets regularly for a large number of those years, only not taking a ST when I was working shifts and it wasn't worth it. 

I'm a member of MCT and have recently signed my grandson up as a member also.

So, if I turn-up after kickoff, for whatever reason, and am being denied entry by "Helga Geehart" then she is effectively preventing part owners of the club entry.

As you said in an earlier post on the same subject, she's either all sugar or all shite.

I know I keep returning to the subject,(for which I apologise) but that night she told me to take the boy off the barrier with 89 and a half minutes of the game gone really annoyed me, especially when you see video footage of adults dancing on the barriers at the Motherwell game and there's not a steward to.be seen. So what's her problem, are those lads too big for her to take to task?

Is she only capable of harassing an auld man and a 6 year old?

[capitanus]

On 3/6/2024 at 3:31 PM, Toby said:

A pal of mine who supports Dundee United was denied entry last night because he was late in turning up at the ground.

Not that it should need explaining, but when in the Norseman he had to deal with a phone call that was a bit of a family emergency, and by the time he got round to leaving to go to the ground, the gates were all locked.

He approached a steward to see if he could gain entry to the ground and the steward radioed his supervisor, who said under no circumstances would he be allowed in, despite having no idea of the circumstances surrounding his late arrival, and the fact that he had bought a valid match ticket.

It will come as no surprise that he described the supervisor on the other end of the radio as female and “very aggressive” in her tone. Said supervisor did not, of course, attend the scene in person to explain why my pal wouldn’t be getting in.

I understand there may be a cut off point to get entry to a game, but to be told that “under no circumstances” will he be permitted entry, is completely unacceptable imho. People encounter issues in their day-to-day lives, being treated like that be someone whose job role is customer service shouldn't happen, and was an embarrassment to me when he told me how my club were treating him.

I doubt it’ll take much joining up of dots to establish who the female supervisor is, and I’m 99.99% sure that it was the same woman who we constantly complain about on here.

It’s about time she lost her job.

It takes very little effort to open a gate, which would have been the decent thing to do given the circumstances.  As you said, there was a genuine reason why your mate was late for the game and the senior steward didn't know or care about this, but there could have been other reasons, for instance - traffic, or he could have been involved in an accident on way to the game, he could have been a medical professional attending an emergency or many other genuine reasons.  He had a valid ticket for the game so it would have been no skin off anyone's nose to just open the gate for a few seconds to let him in.  Why did the steward need to radio this female 'senior steward' in the first place instead of simply exercising his own discretion?  Is she so autocratic that she is actually micro-managing the non senior stewards?

As you will know i've not been down there for a few years now so i'm only going upon what i've seen and read on here, but this individual - female 'senior steward' seems to go out of her way to make people miserable.   Your mate may have been reimbursed for his ticket, but i'll bet he had a pretty shit night as a result of her actions.  I'll bet she was happy with herself about it too.  Her employers should seriously think about replacing her or they should lose the contract for Cappielow at the earliest opportunity.

 

 

[TRVMP]

If I ran a stewarding company I would also insist on an "all or nothing" approach - either my company is given full latitude to interpret the rules in real-time as we see fit, or we don't do the job. In this sense, the stewards having final say without having to radio in to the directors' box for approval is the correct thing to do.

I would also ensure, however, that the line manager on duty that day didn't so disgust the regular customers - many of whom either have a direct line to that directors' box or are indeed by equity a part of that same directors' box - that they would give a second's thought to us, much less want us replaced. I would instead decline to shit on my own doorstep, something seemingly above the people under contract this season.

Regarding getting in late, however, I believe their hands are largely tied: as absurd as it may be, if you report a certain percentage of capacity at a certain time it's not wise to go above it, even if it's one person in an ocean of free terracing (hence on all-ticket days the fact you can't move between Sinclair Street and the Cowshed.) But even if that's an unavoidable circumstance, there are ways and means of communicating that to the fans. A single person or family showing up late is hardly going to cause any trouble; there's no reason to be anything other than sympathetic to them. Coming out all guns blazing against peaceful, regular fans while ignoring actual disorder is exactly how you get people not to take you seriously; for that reason, if no other, if I was on the GMFC board I would be giving serious scrutiny to the stewardship contract ahead of the 2024-25 season. It's one thing to say "OK, there's some arseholes on staff, but the fans will get over it and come back" - it's quite another to say "OK, the stewards are sending mixed messages and going after easy targets, and fans are noticing they're nowhere to be seen when there's some actual rule breaches going on - it would just take one dodgy incident in a Renfrewshire derby for this to go south very quickly."

[TAFKAC]

2 hours ago, TRVMP said:

If I ran a stewarding company I would also insist on an "all or nothing" approach - either my company is given full latitude to interpret the rules in real-time as we see fit, or we don't do the job. In this sense, the stewards having final say without having to radio in to the directors' box for approval is the correct thing to do.

I would also ensure, however, that the line manager on duty that day didn't so disgust the regular customers - many of whom either have a direct line to that directors' box or are indeed by equity a part of that same directors' box - that they would give a second's thought to us, much less want us replaced. I would instead decline to shit on my own doorstep, something seemingly above the people under contract this season.

Regarding getting in late, however, I believe their hands are largely tied: as absurd as it may be, if you report a certain percentage of capacity at a certain time it's not wise to go above it, even if it's one person in an ocean of free terracing (hence on all-ticket days the fact you can't move between Sinclair Street and the Cowshed.) But even if that's an unavoidable circumstance, there are ways and means of communicating that to the fans. A single person or family showing up late is hardly going to cause any trouble; there's no reason to be anything other than sympathetic to them. Coming out all guns blazing against peaceful, regular fans while ignoring actual disorder is exactly how you get people not to take you seriously; for that reason, if no other, if I was on the GMFC board I would be giving serious scrutiny to the stewardship contract ahead of the 2024-25 season. It's one thing to say "OK, there's some arseholes on staff, but the fans will get over it and come back" - it's quite another to say "OK, the stewards are sending mixed messages and going after easy targets, and fans are noticing they're nowhere to be seen when there's some actual rule breaches going on - it would just take one dodgy incident in a Renfrewshire derby for this to go south very quickly."

I can't quite get my head around what rules are actually being followed here.  I have a slightly more pragmatic example from Charlton, although it is slightly dated.  My lad used to train on a Tuesday night.  If there was a midweek game, we would not be able to get to the Valley until just before half time.  When the barriers became automatic, it was easy to keep one turnstile open for each area of the ground with a steward on the door.  Before that, that steward would check the ticket and then radio through that they were letting someone with a ticket into the ground.  And that was into a ground with 16,000 other people already in place.