irnbru Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 16 minutes ago, vikingTON said: 1) I don't like the argument either, but unlike when slaphead Gus was around or when Jim McInally was bottling promotion after promotion with Rae's largesse, it is the reality we are now operating in. Imrie completely failed to read the room with his team selection against Dunfermline last Friday night. Had he swapped around a couple of players and lost, the focus would shift to the squad. By sacking Imrie in the context of a parade of injuries and a squad structure that's not fit for purpose, GMFC would also be completely failing to read the room of Scottish football attitudes though. The 'poisoned chalice'/thankless task label would be attached to the current ownership, whether we agree with that analysis or not. Nobody outside of this forum gives a toss - quite frankly - about Alexander King's loan move or the amount of game time for Lewis McGrattan. They will simply view the absolute nick of our squad structure, the parade of injuries, excellent overperformance over 18 months and condemn a ridiculously harsh decision. And the reason why we can't just ignore those attitudes is because it directly influences the quality of replacement we can realistically expect to attract. If it's not better than the existing candidate, there's no grounds to make a change. 2) On what objective grounds should we place our "confidence in youth" - where is the underlying structure that demonstrates this plan will work for a professional football club? Our youth development program has been de facto punted to the seaside league diddy category ever since Hawke's inconsequential meltdown about it years ago. It has little access to the funding that is now overwhelming prioritised for 'elite academies'. You can thank the Hamish Husband brigade and the SFA's fixation with international football for poisoning that well in the club game. That is not Imrie's fault. So unless there's a credible plan to reverse that, GMFC cannot have confidence in youth that is the product of a literally second-rate system. Any good work by individual coaches or talent-spotters is fighting against the tide of at least half a dozen setups that are making better offers than ourselves, for players in a highly restricted catchment area. Then we move on to confidence in our current youth: well why is it exactly that a parade of youth players always seem to get 'harshly singled out' as poor trainers and iced by the manager, before going on to do the square root of fuck all in the remainder of their career in professional football? That might sound harsh but when you remove the home-grown tinted glasses, that is the objective reality of our youth policy. The only player we have sold for an actual transfer fee in the past 20 years was Michael Tidser - our own youth development structure has contributed nothing of tangible value. Imrie or any other manager would have to be unhinged to stake their own career and day job on such a duff bet. Agree to an extent but youth isn't necessarily from the academy. Bearne (while I don't really rate him) done well against Dunfermline but didn't start today and there's opportunities to sign others rather than players like Broadfoot for 'experience'. There's others out there we could have took in or not let go who at least would have been able to play higher up the park and press like the formation needs. I'm not so sure that we're that unattractive either. There's 1000s of managers, ex-players, etc out there desperate for a change at a decent level and probably confident they can do a job regardless of what the situation is. The market is huge with not a lot of jobs but the issue is we don't really have anyone to find one that would do better so would more than likely end up with a Gus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 40 minutes ago, irnbru said: Agree to an extent but youth isn't necessarily from the academy. Bearne (while I don't really rate him) done well against Dunfermline but didn't start today and there's opportunities to sign others rather than players like Broadfoot for 'experience'. There's others out there we could have took in or not let go who at least would have been able to play higher up the park and press like the formation needs. I'm not so sure that we're that unattractive either. There's 1000s of managers, ex-players, etc out there desperate for a change at a decent level and probably confident they can do a job regardless of what the situation is. The market is huge with not a lot of jobs but the issue is we don't really have anyone to find one that would do better so would more than likely end up with a Gus. Why on earth would an ex-player who fancies themself as a real manager - not somebody who just can't work out what to do with their spare time beyond flogging Herbalife- apply for a job in our current predicament when a person with the exact same profile, who overachieved to a significant degree for 18 months, has just been unceremoniously emptied? I don't buy that GMFC's failure of recruitment is an issue compared to the more pressing reality that they would be choosing from a random pick and mix of highly damaged goods and absolute no-marks. If Imrie were to resign/rage quit then the situation is different to a fair degree, because the optics of any such departure matter in this case. That's the crucial difference between now and 24 months' ago. Slaphead Gus had zero wider standing or credit in the game and so could be safely discarded at no cost beyond his gardening leave. For me, I see no logical reason to hold the manager accountable throughout the rest of this season - although there is of course always a shame game point beyond which Imrie's job would be untenable. Today provides no evidence of that. As for the 'opportunity to sign other players' - may I remind you that in July and August of this fucking year, a fair chunk of this forum was getting deranged because the club was welching on splashing the cash on such proven quality signings like, err, a Tiktok ringer and 'Frankie Deane'. I don't see them strolling through matches at any rival Scottish Championship club though. We signed players with a relatively high risk of failure (Gillespie; Quitongo; even Oakley based on his recent CV) last season and won a collective watch. The more ropey ones like Ambrose were also safely minimised by good fortune with injuries. This season has been the polar opposite with injuries and the same overall level of gamble signings has collectively backfired. It's a straightforward regression to the mean here (crap and ineffective squad structure), playing out across two campaigns. I completely understand why we're all pissed off about our current situation, but that is the fundamental reality we need to address. Youth v experience is irrelevant. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, vikingTON said: Why on earth would an ex-player who fancies themself as a real manager - not somebody who just can't work out what to do with their spare time beyond flogging Herbalife- apply for a job in our current predicament when a person with the exact same profile, who overachieved to a significant degree for 18 months, has just been unceremoniously emptied? Because, despite the low pay, challenging environment and high chance of not succeeding, there's 100s of 1000s of people that just want to be involved in football and would jump at the chance of a half decent job managing a team despite how difficult it might seem. It's the nature of football. I'd guess the majority of people on here would give up their jobs to do something like that and the majority of players at the end of their careers would much rather stay in the game than get a 9-5 job. It's clearly not a great position to be in for a manager but there's not many job opportunities so clubs always have a position of power since jobs only come up every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 7 hours ago, DreamOakTree said: No other club would take the wee rancid chino-clad self-obsessed piece of shit, so we need to sack the wee pathetic fucker to rid the club of his development player hater, old pals’ lover mentality, before it’s too late. Although IMO it’s already too late as the wee addictive rat has already royally fucked up our club structure,and from where I’m looking, has taken great relish from doing so. Get to fuck ya wee puny imposter! Wash your mouth out with bleach you fucking clown. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 After losing a ridiculously soft early goal (could see the situation developing like a slow motion car crash), we spent about 25 minutes playing hoof ball, and any time we played the ball out from defence we got halfway up the pitch and passed the ball backwards. We did see some attempts to play football with McGrattan and Wilson linking up, but mostly it was long balls. When we started playing on the deck after about 25 minutes, we looked dangerous and eventually it led to our penalty. We then went back to long balls. We were by no means outclassed but our defence collectively looked nervous and we run out of ideas in the final third. It’s an accumulation of small margins that is killing us. Also we seemed to have a tendency to fall over as if our studs were too short. The Brian Graham incident was hilarious. A straight red (he was already on a yellow) and he continued to interact with our support (should be another card for that) and ended up at the corner flag inviting fans to come and have a go (merits another card, possibly beating Bobby Thomson’s record for the Sandy Jardine incident). Be great if that gets mentioned in the referee’s report. Comedy gold. Unlike some, I think sacking Imrie would be a wrong move. He is working on a low budget & is doing his best. I’d rather have someone who cares managing our team. If we do go down, I’d want him to get us back up. We have been very unlucky with injuries. Can’t think who would do better than Dougie. I do think he needs to up his game with the post match media stuff and maybe not hold back so much. He himself might choose to leave, and if he does, it would be a huge loss for us. How he handles things in the next three months or so will tell us a lot about him. "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SassenachTon Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 8 hours ago, irnbru said: I'd guess the majority of people on here would give up their jobs to do something like that I wouldn't. It's a thankless task where you can be hailed as a Messiah at one point, and then have fans booing at you and screaming for your head the next. Just two words - Claudio Ranieri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Can totally understand why some want Dougie sacked as the results haven't been good enough and the football has been poor. What I don't agree with is the personal abuse and over the top comments that are right out of order. It's easy to be a keyboard warrior and shout the odds. Personally I don't think he should be sacked. We've had terrible luck with injuries going backwards to the alloa game when doyle was stretchered off and its continued to get worse. Given we've made some questionable signings but if we had a fully fit and available squad I don't think we'd be in this position. He's worked wonders during his time with us and deserves the time and patience of the fans to have the chance to get to improve our position. Get to January with the hope that we have improved our league position or still in touch with the other teams above us and give him a transfer window to get us up the table. My one criticism is that we are far too reliant on the long ball up to Oakley or Muirhead. Other teams know this and its not effective either. That needs to change. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 For a lot of folk we would not be an attractive proposition but for those looking to start out in the manager's seat we would an entry level opportunity. Not dissimilar to the situation when Imrie got the role. Some fans will look at what has happened to Inverness having binned the previous haddie to get in Big Dunc but for me it is more often than not a game of Russian Roulette. Imrie could help himself though by learning from his mistakes rather than doubling down - we all know the definition of madness. The interviews are also an increasing frustration. When he arrived Imrie was a breathe of fresh air, not talking down the club and offering honest insights into our successes and failings. Lately Imrie has reverted to the same old cliches after every game. The reality is this season has been a brutal watch and the manager has to show he can respond. As for the experience over youth or vice versa why is it not an option to have the best of both worlds? Imrie is clearly more comfortable with experienced pros on the park rather than risking younger players. While it has not worked this season it is not as if the boys coming off the bench have consistently performed to merit a starting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 There were a few times before the goal they'd gotten in at the byline for cutbacks and messed it up, we weren't going to get away with it forever with the full backs being an obvious place to target. Don't think you could have asked Wilson to have a better game in the circumstances and I don't really understand why he was the one on the left when French has played left back before, but once again French was absolutely terrible. The worst player on the park three games running. You could see again at 2-1 we were back to having no idea what to do in possession and were never scoring, with Bearne effectively the only sub we could actually use. We could try to clutch at straws for positives to take and say that three 2-1 defeats in a row rather than total pumpings suggest we're not far away from picking up points, while the midfield definitely improved with Gillespie in place of Power and we were undone by a brilliant goal for the winner this time - he obviously meant it - rather than the clowncar defending that should have seen Dunfermline put four or five past us. However our three goals in those games have been two penalties and rebound from a yard out in a goalmouth scramble from a corner. We don't have the creativity to score from open play and even if we sort out the defence, we're not going to win games until that changes. We need a better plan than praying a fit Quitongo will magically fix it. Any other manager with this start to the season and I'd have been calling for their head weeks ago but the credit in the bank for Imrie is directly relevant to the situation we're in. It's not just blind hope that things will improve, there are actual reasons based on how he's turned us round in the past to believe that he can do it again. Even with this start to the season, he is still statistically the best manager we've had in the second tier since Tommy McLean. You don't throw away a manager with that good a record without giving him time to turn it round, time that the Gus MacPhersons of the world had demonstrably never earned. This is now our worst start to a season since 98/99. Being even worse than 21/22 or 13/14 is grim, but if there's any comfort to take we stuck by the manager in 98/99 and had an excellent second half of the season to end up comfortably mid-table. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 6 league games before the window, 3 at home; including Arbroath, Queens Park, Inverness x2. We're shocking, no doubt, but there's points to be won in December to at least keep us in touching distance. Sacking Imrie and bringing on someone else won't resolve our primary issue - a squad with gaping holes in it. Every decision is a gamble but I'd be happier to gamble any available cash on the playing squad with Imrie at the helm, rather than paying for release clauses. Time for our new chairman to earn his place on the wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 14 hours ago, irnbru said: Because, despite the low pay, challenging environment and high chance of not succeeding, there's 100s of 1000s of people that just want to be involved in football and would jump at the chance of a half decent job managing a team despite how difficult it might seem. There are also hundreds of thousands of people who want to play up front for a professional football team - we don't give them a trial run out because this is supposed to be a professional football club. The talent pool for a credible football manager is significantly limited when you're looking for your 18th since 2000 and have just binned someone in their first stint after actually demonstrating success in 2 out of 3 seasons. We will get applications but 100% of them will be severely damaged goods, daft attention seekers or novices with literally nothing to recommend them. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 17 minutes ago, vikingTON said: There are also hundreds of thousands of people who want to play up front for a professional football team - we don't give them a trial run out because this is supposed to be a professional football club. The talent pool for a credible football manager is significantly limited when you're looking for your 18th since 2000 and have just binned someone in their first stint after actually demonstrating success in 2 out of 3 seasons. We will get applications but 100% of them will be severely damaged goods, daft attention seekers or novices with literally nothing to recommend them. I don't think the talent pool is limited. There's 1000s of people involved in football and not many manager jobs. The challenge is that identifying someone and not going with an 'experienced' Gus like figure but that's up to clubs to do. It doesn't mean that there's no one out there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Why not get a guy like Salty with a laptop who is supposedly the next big thing because he studied Mourinho and er, has a laptop and... Edit to add: Ian Cathro was his name. IIRC a few years back people were taking him very seriously and talking him up even as being a serious candidate for the Morton job. Incidentally one of those was Dunning1874 because er, he had a laptop etc. However the same guy was dismissive of Duncan Ferguson who is unbeaten in his first five games at Inverness Caley. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I said it at the time - the reason internet users and FM players latched onto Cathro so hard was that they saw him as their representative, and when Kris Boyd was allegedly dismissive of some of his computer use they thought Boyd was a dinosaur and Cathro was the wave of the future. Cathro was slightly hamstrung in that he went to Hearts when they were in the middle of rebuilding a squad and it wasn't really "his" but it is the case that his one managerial job was an ignominious failure. I think in reality we need to be careful about the football data revolution because a lot of the models simply haven't proven their value yet and things like man management and commanding a squad of players are still important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChampTon Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I don't hate Brian Graham because he talks shit about Morton at every opportunity he gets or the fact he scores against us all the time. I hate Brian Graham because he's an absolutely insufferable, thug bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 2 hours ago, capitanus said: Why not get a guy like Salty with a laptop who is supposedly the next big thing because he studied Mourinho and er, has a laptop and... Edit to add: Ian Cathro was his name. IIRC a few years back people were taking him very seriously and talking him up even as being a serious candidate for the Morton job. Incidentally one of those was Dunning1874 because er, he had a laptop etc. However the same guy was dismissive of Duncan Ferguson who is unbeaten in his first five games at Inverness Caley. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 2 hours ago, dunning1874 said: Aye ye did. It was definitely you. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehustler Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 On 11/12/2023 at 12:08 AM, vikingTON said: Why on earth would an ex-player who fancies themself as a real manager - not somebody who just can't work out what to do with their spare time beyond flogging Herbalife- apply for a job in our current predicament when a person with the exact same profile, who overachieved to a significant degree for 18 months, has just been unceremoniously emptied? I don't buy that GMFC's failure of recruitment is an issue compared to the more pressing reality that they would be choosing from a random pick and mix of highly damaged goods and absolute no-marks. If Imrie were to resign/rage quit then the situation is different to a fair degree, because the optics of any such departure matter in this case. That's the crucial difference between now and 24 months' ago. Slaphead Gus had zero wider standing or credit in the game and so could be safely discarded at no cost beyond his gardening leave. For me, I see no logical reason to hold the manager accountable throughout the rest of this season - although there is of course always a shame game point beyond which Imrie's job would be untenable. Today provides no evidence of that. As for the 'opportunity to sign other players' - may I remind you that in July and August of this fucking year, a fair chunk of this forum was getting deranged because the club was welching on splashing the cash on such proven quality signings like, err, a Tiktok ringer and 'Frankie Deane'. I don't see them strolling through matches at any rival Scottish Championship club though. We signed players with a relatively high risk of failure (Gillespie; Quitongo; even Oakley based on his recent CV) last season and won a collective watch. The more ropey ones like Ambrose were also safely minimised by good fortune with injuries. This season has been the polar opposite with injuries and the same overall level of gamble signings has collectively backfired. It's a straightforward regression to the mean here (crap and ineffective squad structure), playing out across two campaigns. I completely understand why we're all pissed off about our current situation, but that is the fundamental reality we need to address. Youth v experience is irrelevant. Unadulterated nonsense. Facts are firstly, that recruitment in the summer truly dreadful with only 4 defenders in the squad - thats down to Imrie; secondly, we have one tactic which is lumping the ball up the park to Big George. Turgid to watch and again, entirely down to Imrie. Aye we've had injuries but if you start with 4 defenders then injuries will hurt the starting 11. Again purely down to Imrie. We are bottom of the league by a distance and probably the worst team in it at present. All down to Imrie. That's why he has to go. He's a bully with the young players with many stories highlighting this. Last season it was all the20 year old goalies fault and nothing to do with his mate Ali Crawford who cost us a place in the playoffs. I have no idea why such an intelligent poster as yourself would continue to back Imrie. I guess you're just a daftie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BishopBrennan Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, thehustler said: He's a bully with the young players with many stories highlighting this. Can you point us towards these stories? You address me by my proper title, you little bollocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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