Stewards v Arbroath

[Alibi]

If someone has a ticket, there is no reason not to admit them.  To suggest that letting someone in after kick off might overcrowd the ground is daft as they could have turned up before kick off and got in without question.  It's a daft rule and probably they're doing it to avoid having someone on the turnstile for any longer than needed.  Every game I'm at, one of my friends invariably arrives about 5 minutes or more into the game - never been a problem at the Sinclair St turnstiles in as long as I can remember.

This sounds like a situation where the general manager should just tell the stewarding company to facilitate late entry, even if it means letting someone in via the main stand entrance and telling them to walk through to the away section.  The stewarding company are employed by the club, not the other way round.

Edited March 8 by Alibi

[The Bewilderedbeast]

I take the point above regarding submitting attendance levels, however, on our most recent trip to Hampden a large number of Morton fans were held up and arrived at the stadium late, and after kick off, as a result of a traffic accident at Erskine and the fact there was another game in the east end of Glasgow the same day.

 

On arrival, the Queens Park stewards simply waved everyone through the turnstiles and didn't even check or scan tickets.

[The Bewilderedbeast]

Leaving all of the above aside,  the worst and craziest stewarding decision I have ever witnessed was the day two male stewards arrived and spoke to a regular fan standing beside me.

To be fair, the two stewards were visibly embarrassed and apologetic as they told the guy they'd been instructed by their supervisor to tell him to remove his yellow North Face jacket because he may have been mistaken as being a steward by other fans.

When he protested pointing that it was cold, they told him to turn it inside out! 

Then the following conversation ensued.

But it's been raining and the outer side is wet, he said. Well we've been told to put you out if you refuse, but if you take it off then put it back on once we walk away that'll be ok.

So that's what happened and nothing more was said.

I have no Idea if it's the same stewarding company or personel that's currently involved or not, but the two stewards referred to the person making the decision as SHE.

 

What ever happened to discretion?

[Alibi]

3 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

Leaving all of the above aside,  the worst and craziest stewarding decision I have ever witnessed was the day two male stewards arrived and spoke to a regular fan standing beside me.

To be fair, the two stewards were visibly embarrassed and apologetic as they told the guy they'd been instructed by their supervisor to tell him to remove his yellow North Face jacket because he may have been mistaken as being a steward by other fans.

When he protested pointing that it was cold, they told him to turn it inside out! 

Then the following conversation ensued.

But it's been raining and the outer side is wet, he said. Well we've been told to put you out if you refuse, but if you take it off then put it back on once we walk away that'll be ok.

So that's what happened and nothing more was said.

I have no Idea if it's the same stewarding company or personel that's currently involved or not, but the two stewards referred to the person making the decision as SHE.

 

What ever happened to discretion?

Better not wear black or you'll end up running the line...

[The Bewilderedbeast]

38 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Better not wear black or you'll end up running the line...

Person involved did run the line v Airdrie,  something else that made that particular incident all the more laughable. 

He must be one of the more recognisable figures in the shed.

[Mr.Blue]

6 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

Leaving all of the above aside,  the worst and craziest stewarding decision I have ever witnessed was the day two male stewards arrived and spoke to a regular fan standing beside me.

To be fair, the two stewards were visibly embarrassed and apologetic as they told the guy they'd been instructed by their supervisor to tell him to remove his yellow North Face jacket because he may have been mistaken as being a steward by other fans.

When he protested pointing that it was cold, they told him to turn it inside out! 

Then the following conversation ensued.

But it's been raining and the outer side is wet, he said. Well we've been told to put you out if you refuse, but if you take it off then put it back on once we walk away that'll be ok.

So that's what happened and nothing more was said.

I have no Idea if it's the same stewarding company or personel that's currently involved or not, but the two stewards referred to the person making the decision as SHE.

 

What ever happened to discretion?

That's embarrassing. 

[capitanus]

Having read all the comments on this, I cant help but think if the guy was an off-duty cop who arrived at the gate and flashed his warrant card then the steward would have opened it without question, and Mrs Head Steward wouldn't have been so officious.

Unfortunately the guy in question was just an ordinary member of the public, cue the reason for her to be so obnoxious.

[TRVMP]

13 hours ago, TAFKAC said:

I can't quite get my head around what rules are actually being followed here.  I have a slightly more pragmatic example from Charlton, although it is slightly dated.  My lad used to train on a Tuesday night.  If there was a midweek game, we would not be able to get to the Valley until just before half time.  When the barriers became automatic, it was easy to keep one turnstile open for each area of the ground with a steward on the door.  Before that, that steward would check the ticket and then radio through that they were letting someone with a ticket into the ground.  And that was into a ground with 16,000 other people already in place.

I'm guessing. I believe it to be a combination of 'ealf 'n' safety gone mad and probably politically correctness gone mad as well.

[Alibi]

12 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

Person involved did run the line v Airdrie,  something else that made that particular incident all the more laughable. 

He must be one of the more recognisable figures in the shed.

Remember that incident with Chick Cavanagh. What a coincidence…

[Toby]

It’s a bit of a nuisance to quote and reply to everyone on this, but I just can’t accept the point about reporting the ground at a certain percentage of capacity at a certain point after kick off.

We’re well past the stage of folk turning up on the day and handing over £20 and walking through now. Every purchased ticket is recorded and the club know how many people at a maximum will be in the ground at kick off time going by those sales, with stewarding numbers arranged in advance.

I remember Dave MacKinnon telling me of similar instances of people who were knocked back, if turning up late from work, when he made his grovelling apology over his (alleged) drunken blocking me from the club’s Twitter, and telling me they were working on fixing it, yet four years down the line, and under a more efficient management structure, we’re at the same place with the same security firm.

Ronnie’s point about picking on easy targets strikes a chord here, for me. Like they’re happy to pick on a grandfather and his grandson instead of getting right in the middle of the shed at its most wild, they’ve found an away fan that they think will eventually forget about the issue and move on, not knowing that his mate is in fact a Morton fan who will cling onto this like a dug with a bone.

I’d expect if questioned, the first defence to be that he was drunk. He wasn’t, I met him outside the Norseman at full time, by which point he’d had plenty of unexpected time in the boozer and was completely sober.

Ironically, reading Paul’s post- the guy is a medical professional, who has before found himself in situations similar to what Paul’s painted at games elsewhere, forcing him to turn up later, and been admitted. You wouldn’t know to look at him, though. Not that the head steward did, of course. She denied him admission from the other end of a walkie-talkie, leaving her subordinate to confront him, like the coward she is.

With my pal included in my email trail, we received a reply from Alistair, who asked for his details to process the refund and advising that it had been forwarded to Dale. Given that I addressed the original mail to Dale and asked for his thoughts on the matter, I’m a bit disappointed that having sent it on Wednesday night, I’ve not heard a thing from him. While I feel that addressing the treatment of wronged customers should be a matter that’s treated with the utmost priority, I’m prepared to give the benefit of the doubt for now, given how busy a week this is with the Hearts game coming up, but Morton have got two extremely unhappy paying customers, here. And one of them is a very regular one.

The tail is wagging the dog with this security firm, and Morton really have to be letting them know that their behaviour, and that of certain individual employees, can’t go on as it is.

[capitanus]

5 hours ago, Toby said:

It’s a bit of a nuisance to quote and reply to everyone on this, but I just can’t accept the point about reporting the ground at a certain percentage of capacity at a certain point after kick off.

We’re well past the stage of folk turning up on the day and handing over £20 and walking through now. Every purchased ticket is recorded and the club know how many people at a maximum will be in the ground at kick off time going by those sales, with stewarding numbers arranged in advance.

I remember Dave MacKinnon telling me of similar instances of people who were knocked back, if turning up late from work, when he made his grovelling apology over his (alleged) drunken blocking me from the club’s Twitter, and telling me they were working on fixing it, yet four years down the line, and under a more efficient management structure, we’re at the same place with the same security firm.

Ronnie’s point about picking on easy targets strikes a chord here, for me. Like they’re happy to pick on a grandfather and his grandson instead of getting right in the middle of the shed at its most wild, they’ve found an away fan that they think will eventually forget about the issue and move on, not knowing that his mate is in fact a Morton fan who will cling onto this like a dug with a bone.

I’d expect if questioned, the first defence to be that he was drunk. He wasn’t, I met him outside the Norseman at full time, by which point he’d had plenty of unexpected time in the boozer and was completely sober.

Ironically, reading Paul’s post- the guy is a medical professional, who has before found himself in situations similar to what Paul’s painted at games elsewhere, forcing him to turn up later, and been admitted. You wouldn’t know to look at him, though. Not that the head steward did, of course. She denied him admission from the other end of a walkie-talkie, leaving her subordinate to confront him, like the coward she is.

With my pal included in my email trail, we received a reply from Alistair, who asked for his details to process the refund and advising that it had been forwarded to Dale. Given that I addressed the original mail to Dale and asked for his thoughts on the matter, I’m a bit disappointed that having sent it on Wednesday night, I’ve not heard a thing from him. While I feel that addressing the treatment of wronged customers should be a matter that’s treated with the utmost priority, I’m prepared to give the benefit of the doubt for now, given how busy a week this is with the Hearts game coming up, but Morton have got two extremely unhappy paying customers, here. And one of them is a very regular one.

The tail is wagging the dog with this security firm, and Morton really have to be letting them know that their behaviour, and that of certain individual employees, can’t go on as it is.

I think the 'reporting of numbers' reason for refusing entry is a far fetched one, to be honest.  If that is ever given as a reason, it would reek of 'clutching at straws'.  Your mate had a valid ticket and he turned up late, the reason for his late arrival is his business and he shouldn't need to justify himself to a fucking football steward.  It's not as though opening a gate and letting him in would require a big effort and given the circumstances would have been the decent thing to do.  He wouldn't be disrupting the game and would very unlikely be disrupting anyone elses enjoyment of the game.

I often run late when i'm going to a game, and I recall two instances during Douglas Rae's era when I once was late I was let in for half price as I missed most of the first half; and another time I was let in for free as I arrived and we were 3-0 down.  A few times I'd arrived and had to go in via the stand and go through the gates to the Sinclair Street end.  None were a big deal for the stewarding staff concerned. 

All of this seems to be night and day compared to what we're reading about what people are experiencing nowadays.  YET the club is FAN owned.  It's not owned by an obnoxious cow of a Head Steward.

[Toby]

4 hours ago, capitanus said:

I think the 'reporting of numbers' reason for refusing entry is a far fetched one, to be honest.  If that is ever given as a reason, it would reek of 'clutching at straws'.  Your mate had a valid ticket and he turned up late, the reason for his late arrival is his business and he shouldn't need to justify himself to a fucking football steward.  It's not as though opening a gate and letting him in would require a big effort and given the circumstances would have been the decent thing to do.  He wouldn't be disrupting the game and would very unlikely be disrupting anyone elses enjoyment of the game.

I often run late when i'm going to a game, and I recall two instances during Douglas Rae's era when I once was late I was let in for half price as I missed most of the first half; and another time I was let in for free as I arrived and we were 3-0 down.  A few times I'd arrived and had to go in via the stand and go through the gates to the Sinclair Street end.  None were a big deal for the stewarding staff concerned. 

All of this seems to be night and day compared to what we're reading about what people are experiencing nowadays.  YET the club is FAN owned.  It's not owned by an obnoxious cow of a Head Steward.

The only possible justification I can think of (and this is a real stretch) is that the away turnstiles at the WDE were closed, so he had to turn up at the main stand entrance, so as an away fan, would (not really) have needed escorting up the stairs and through an empty corridor to the away end of the main stand, which would have required taking a steward from their position. We are, of course talking about escorting a middle aged man who has paid a not inconsiderable sum of money to be entertained, not a Category A prisoner.

Unfortunately for the head steward though, things come up and now and again you have to juggle your pack. It’s called management, something she’s clearly not capable of, or not prepared to do.

So instead of opening the gate and inconveniencing one or a couple of her team for the best part of three minutes, she’s cost the club his £22 entry fee, upset both him and a regular Morton fan with her conduct, given the club’s admin staff and General Manager a headache to appease said upset fans, and seen the tale dragged onto social media.

I hope it was worth it.

[The Bewilderedbeast]

Another thing that strikes me about all of this is, those raising the issues, are to my knowledge,  reasonable people who have no reason to make any of this up or mischief making.

While relating my particular issue to another regular fan (who is a local GP) he commented that although he'd never had any interaction with her on a personal level, he had been present in the vicinity and overheard her dealing with others and that he was not impressed .

As he said, it's often not what is said or done, but how it's said or done.

[Ray Von]

Hope there’s a bit of trouble tomorrow night and these stewards have to do a bit of work to earn their money for a change.

[TRVMP]

Fair point, I was just guessing that the "people in the ground" was the justification.

[The Bewilderedbeast]

4 hours ago, Ray Von said:

Hope there’s a bit of trouble tomorrow night and these stewards have to do a bit of work to earn their money for a change.

Can't agree with "hoping" there's trouble, but that would be interesting,  they maðe a meal of dealing with the Bo'ness fans in the stand.

 

[SassenachTon]

Fuck knows what's going to happen tonight with the trains being off. How many Hearts latecomers will there be? And what will be the size of the riot outside when Sourpuss does her stuff?

[Cet Homme Charmant]

42 minutes ago, SassenachTon said:

Fuck knows what's going to happen tonight with the trains being off.  

Why are the trains off?

[Pedrodelawasp]

1 minute ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Why are the trains off?

There was a check for possible damage to the line, but all clear and the route is back open 

[The Bewilderedbeast]

Someone put a pic on WhatsApp about half an hour ago, they were still east of Langbank and tail lights ahead as far as you could see

Edited March 11 by The Bewilderedbeast