The Scottish Gas Scottish Cup 2023-24

[capitanus]

33 minutes ago, TONofmemories said:

That sort of thing can't just be done at the drop of a hat. It'd require quite some planning and would Involved structural engineering checks etc, which all costs money and likely we'd be on the hook for those costs.

Alibi is a dab hand at that kind of thing.  If he starts tomorrow he could knock one of them up before the game.

[TONofmemories]

3 minutes ago, capitanus said:

Alibi is a dab hand at that kind of thing.  If he starts tomorrow he could knock one of them up before the game.

Was going to say, IIRC, he said something on here before about having looked at it years ago? Correct me if I'm wrong 

[Alibi]

2 hours ago, Cat10 said:

Could they not build a gantry that goes up and over the cowshed roof?

It was looked at a few years ago and it's not really feasible.  IIRC one of the main problems was that safe access has to be provided - you can't just have a scaffolding and a ladder, and the roof structre and supporting columns probably don't have the strength.  If we had a modern cantilever roof over the cowshed area, you could have the cameras at the rear and get a clear view of the pitch but with the posts in place the camera position needs to be forward of them or at worst about in line with them so that they can see the corner flags and the entire pitch without a post getting in the road when they pan round.

 

FWIW in my opinion the best place currently to site a camera would be in the middle of the directos' box, but set far enough forward to get in front of the posts (which in the main stand are I think right at the front rather than being set back as in the Cowshed.  Do they actually need to have someone standing there working the camera?  Surely they could be controlled remotely?  in which case they could be mounted on one of the posts and at a higher level.

Edited January 24 by Alibi

[TONofmemories]

Main stand and inconvenience the prawn sanny brigade for a change.

[LargsTON]

There was a temporary gantry set up for the cup tie against Celtic in 1999 and it didn't impact on standing space at all.  Don't know why something similar couldn't be done.

[montheton]

In this day and age should we not be utilising drone filming? No supporter loss and cheaper? 

[Pedrodelawasp]

4 hours ago, Alibi said:

FWIW in my opinion the best place currently to site a camera would be in the middle of the directos' box, but set far enough forward to get in front of the posts (which in the main stand are I think right at the front rather than being set back as in the Cowshed.  Do they actually need to have someone standing there working the camera?  Surely they could be controlled remotely?  in which case they could be mounted on one of the posts and at a higher level.

I think to get in line with or in front of the uprights in the stand the camera would have to go on top of the dugouts. Doubt that covering is strong enough to take the weight of a camera plus the operator, and building a scaffold there would restrict using the dugouts.

Before the last tv game did they not resolve to use a narrower scaffold in the shed to reduce the impact? Was it any better?

Long term the ideal scenario would be a new roof and a permanent gantry for the shed, but that’s going to take a good few cash-spinning cup ties or a very generous  benefactor to foot the bill.

[capitanus]

6 hours ago, TONofmemories said:

Aside, if we've done absolutely nothing since the Partick game and subsequent social media posts to address this issue in anyway, the club are taking the absolute piss or are just refusing to see it as their issue

I thought that the whole idea about Fan Ownership and 'Ivry Buddy Chips In Munny' etc. was to ensure that the fans have a voice and a say in the running of the club.  How has that worked out then?

[capitanus]

5 hours ago, TONofmemories said:

Main stand and inconvenience the prawn sanny brigade for a change.

 

4 hours ago, LargsTON said:

There was a temporary gantry set up for the cup tie against Celtic in 1999 and it didn't impact on standing space at all.  Don't know why something similar couldn't be done.

 

22 minutes ago, Pedrodelawasp said:

I think to get in line with or in front of the uprights in the stand the camera would have to go on top of the dugouts. Doubt that covering is strong enough to take the weight of a camera plus the operator, and building a scaffold there would restrict using the dugouts.

Before the last tv game did they not resolve to use a narrower scaffold in the shed to reduce the impact? Was it any better?

Long term the ideal scenario would be a new roof and a permanent gantry for the shed, but that’s going to take a good few cash-spinning cup ties or a very generous  benefactor to foot the bill.

 

5 hours ago, Alibi said:

It was looked at a few years ago and it's not really feasible.  IIRC one of the main problems was that safe access has to be provided - you can't just have a scaffolding and a ladder, and the roof structre and supporting columns probably don't have the strength.  If we had a modern cantilever roof over the cowshed area, you could have the cameras at the rear and get a clear view of the pitch but with the posts in place the camera position needs to be forward of them or at worst about in line with them so that they can see the corner flags and the entire pitch without a post getting in the road when they pan round.

 

FWIW in my opinion the best place currently to site a camera would be in the middle of the directos' box, but set far enough forward to get in front of the posts (which in the main stand are I think right at the front rather than being set back as in the Cowshed.  Do they actually need to have someone standing there working the camera?  Surely they could be controlled remotely?  in which case they could be mounted on one of the posts and at a higher level.

I said several years back that the ideal place for a TV gantry would be where the Directors box currently is, as in the comfy seating part you get an unobstructed view of all four corners of the ground and possibly the best vantage point in the ground to film the action from.  IIRC there is a camera position just behind this spot albeit small in space and room for a mannie-with-tripod set-up.  However, considering that we no longer have rich benefactors with an entitlement to the cushioned seats, perhaps this area could be used as a TV gantry and the two dozen or so people (who aren't rich owners or benefactors) who would normally sit in that area could be reaccomodated elsewhere in the Main Stand where there is plenty of otherwise empty seating.

What makes more sense, moving around 20 people to somewhere maybe only a few seats away (albeit not cushioned) or having to displace several hundred people in the cowshed?

[Pedrodelawasp]

13 minutes ago, capitanus said:

 

 

 

I said several years back that the ideal place for a TV gantry would be where the Directors box currently is, as in the comfy seating part you get an unobstructed view of all four corners of the ground and possibly the best vantage point in the ground to film the action from.  IIRC there is a camera position just behind this spot albeit small in space and room for a mannie-with-tripod set-up.  However, considering that we no longer have rich benefactors with an entitlement to the cushioned seats, perhaps this area could be used as a TV gantry and the two dozen or so people (who aren't rich owners or benefactors) who would normally sit in that area could be reaccomodated elsewhere in the Main Stand where there is plenty of otherwise empty seating.

What makes more sense, moving around 20 people to somewhere maybe only a few seats away (albeit not cushioned) or having to displace several hundred people in the cowshed?

I think that spot is where our own camera is set up to record for highlights, and unfortunately it’s definitely not an unobstructed view. Most of the stand side touch line is blocked and the pillars to either side obstruct a portion of each penalty area. 
Maybe a camera on a jimmy jib could be used from those seats so that it could held out beyond the uprights?

Finding a solution that doesn’t involve forcing the largest portion of the support away from the middle of the terracing and impacting the match day experience and the atmosphere negatively would be the ideal and can hopefully be part of infrastructure improvements in the coming years.

[SassenachTon]

7 hours ago, montheton said:

In this day and age should we not be utilising drone filming? No supporter loss and cheaper? 

I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think that even the best drones have the necessary stability or picture quality for broadcast work. Plus - all of the equipment in an outside broadcast truck needs to mesh together as a system and be fully compatible with everything else in the signal chain. The BBC mostly use Sony HDC4300’s for most OB and sporting tasks. Interestingly though - these have fully autonomous remote control capability, so don’t need to be mounted on a vast gantry with a cameraman stood behind them.  All they need is a floor-mounted dolly and a jib;

https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/4k-and-hd-camera-systems/hdc-4300

[Alibi]

27 minutes ago, SassenachTon said:

I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think that even the best drones have the necessary stability or picture quality for broadcast work. Plus - all of the equipment in an outside broadcast truck needs to mesh together as a system and be fully compatible with everything else in the signal chain. The BBC mostly use Sony HDC4300’s for most OB and sporting tasks. Interestingly though - these have fully autonomous remote control capability, so don’t need to be mounted on a vast gantry with a cameraman stood behind them.  All they need is a floor-mounted dolly and a jib;

https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/4k-and-hd-camera-systems/hdc-4300

Could be located above the dugouts or even  just in front of the directors box.  Not a lot of structure needed for that and could probably be done without getting in anybody's way.  Don't need to rely on the dugout structure itself to support a camera.

[LargsTON]

1.45 til 2.30 you can see the gantry.  Right at the front in an elevated position.  Perfect view of the match.  I was standing right at the fence that night and I don't recall having any issues seeing the game.

 

[Scott]

47 minutes ago, LargsTON said:

1.45 til 2.30 you can see the gantry.  Right at the front in an elevated position.  Perfect view of the match.  I was standing right at the fence that night and I don't recall having any issues seeing the game.

 

Imagine that size of crowd trying to get in today

[COL43]

in late 1970s when we were on the TV quite often, I seem to remember the cameras were on the stand side and I don't remember the coverage being unduly hampered by the pillars, certainly the games appeared on TV and did not affect the cowshed.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

2 hours ago, COL43 said:

in late 1970s when we were on the TV quite often, I seem to remember the cameras were on the stand side and I don't remember the coverage being unduly hampered by the pillars, certainly the games appeared on TV and did not affect the cowshed.

The stand cameras were definitely hampered by the pillers back then, as you can see a few seconds into the famous Andy Ritchie goal v Aberdeen in 1981. To overcome that, they had pitch level camaras in each half which the director would switch to when the pillars obscured the view from the stand camera. You can see the director cut to the pitch level camera to capture the goal celebrations. It worked well. 

 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

Bit off topic, but the similarities between Ritchie's goal above and Denis Bergkamp's goal against Argentina in the '98 world cup are uncanny. If anything Andy's goal was even better as he was surrounded by three defenders, and remember, that was against a defence that went on to beat Real Madrid in the ECWC Final just a couple of years later. 

Edit add: I was in a bar in Nijmegen watching that game, and the absolute scenes after that goal will live long in the memory

Edited January 25 by Cet Homme Charmant

[capitanus]

2 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Bit off topic, but the similarities between Ritchie's goal above and Denis Bergkamp's goal against Argentina in the '98 world cup are uncanny. If anything Andy's goal was even better as he was surrounded by three defenders, and remember, that was against a defence that went on to beat Real Madrid in the ECWC Final just a couple of years later. 

Edit add: I was in a bar in Nijmegen watching that game, and the absolute scenes after that goal will live long in the memory

Did Ronnie Rensenbrinken play in that game?  Asking for a friend. 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

3 minutes ago, capitanus said:

Did Ronnie Rensenbrinken play in that game?  Asking for a friend. 

Unfortunately he was otherwise occupied, personally training a 40 year old welder

[SassenachTon]

It's rather pleasant being on here without 'a certain someone' stinking out every thread.