"then There's Shimmin,"

[Tonsilitis]

Exactly, and he's a professional.

 

Yes, he's of limited ability and his crosses are usually wayward, but as long as he's picked to play, he can only do his best, and that's what he does. If anyone's going to be criticised for Kev's failings it should be the manager for continuing to pick him, because right now Kev's a model player compared to some of the others.

Have you been watching him recently? He's obviously been working hard at his crossing and he delivered enough excellent cross last Saturday to win several games. We should have scored at least twice from crosses he put in before McGuffie eventually did put one away!

[Tonsilitis]

Running about like a headless chicken and jumping seats to retrieve a ball for a throw in doesn't equate to not hiding, I knew people would wheel out that arguement. Maybe he's just positionally retarded but I often find myself screaming at him to run into space or make himself available for a pass. He could learn a lot off Finlayson in that respect, who always looks to get involved in the game no matter how bad he's playing.

100% correct!

 

[Colkitto]

100% correct!

 

Agreed !

[Mr H Palms]

While I'm not going to slate Finlayson, I will say something about this "always gives 100%" nonsense. I could give the same effort on a football pitch. Doesn't mean that I won't ever be anything other than s***e though. I don't really look at effort when deciding the quality of a player. I only decide on the quality.

 

Finlayson has good days and bad. His delivery has always been okay, especially when he plays those low balls behind the defence. My main problem with him before was his completely one dimensional runs at defenders, where he'd basically just run into them. He seems to have added a few wee tricks to his arsenal and it's amazing how much he has improved because of that.

If any moderator actually takes this under consideration, they probably shouldn't be a mod.

Again, a completely stupid point. There is a major difference between typing stuff on here and going to the game and shouting. The two are not comparable.

 

 

A new low even for this place

 

 

[ThornTON]

You're right - but his performance that day did equate to not hiding.

 

Anyway, we're not going to agree on McAlister, so it's no big deal. I think it's quite common for wide players to be out of the game - particularly out on the left. He'll have been told, I'm pretty sure, not to come inside looking even if he's not involved in the game, as most wingers will have been.

 

I just happen to think that McAlister is one of our better players. Like a scaled down, Scottish First Division, version of James Milner - bags of energy, great working back, dangerous enough going forward, but sometimes lacking composure in the final third. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a decent percentage of assists last season (he certainly did in the spell of games surrounding our win at Palmerston, when Grady scored from his corner).

Milner is one of the best wingers and set piece takers I've seen at VP in years (more consistent than Ashley Young), please don't compare him to a ghost like McAlister, even as 'scaled down' version.

 

McAlister is now a 'scaled down' version of Jim McAlister.

[cmdc]

Milner is one of the best wingers and set piece takers I've seen at VP in years (more consistent than Ashley Young), please don't compare him to a ghost like McAlister, even as 'scaled down' version.

 

McAlister is now a 'scaled down' version of Jim McAlister.

 

Milner is a cracking player - one of my favourite Premiership players - but his composure infront of goal isn't great, and his crossing is pretty eratic!

 

[Dom_Dom]

 

A new low even for this place

 

Why ? It's true. Even if I give 100 on the pitch, I'm still s***e. I wouldn't expect people to love me for the effort. I'd expect to be lambasted for being s***e.

[ThornTON]

Milner is a cracking player - one of my favourite Premiership players - but his composure infront of goal isn't great, and his crossing is pretty eratic!

Aye, his composure isn't the best, but now he's more of a regular hopefully he can add to his three goals this season (McAlister can only dream of that many ).

 

Only problem is where to play him as with Young and Downing available then I don't see how he can play on the wing.

[dunning1874]

The post was a follow on from the earlier post where a poster suggested he would rather have Finlayson than Shimmin in the team. Which is quite clearly deranged... Finalyson is by far the most untalented "footballer" at the club, most people can see his clear lack of ability and while he may give 100%, i like many others could not care less, as i actually go to football to see players play who you can watch and admire their superior ability to your own. Kevin has only once made me smile with a goal against Thistle, the rest of his Morton career is littered with frustration at his utter lack of crossing ability and his constant running into a bling alley with his head to the ground....

 

So that is why the post was made and i make no apologies for it.

 

Pish. "utter lack of crossing ability" is an interesting one. I take you weren't there on Saturday?

 

 

A new low even for this place

 

No it isn't. I expect that everyone on this board would give 100% effort for Morton. The vast majority of us would be complete and utter s***e and not fit to lick s*** off Kevin Finlayson's shoe, but we'd be trying. That's the point being made.

[port-ton]

Kevin Finlayson's 100% is better than anyone else in the teams 100% though, which makes him useful.

 

Comparing him to anyone off the street is just stupid.

 

Plus he's not even close to being the worst player in the team anyway, and more than good enough to have a place in our squad.

 

I wouldnt say a team of 11 Finlayson's and we'd be a lot better, but he's more than good enough to be in a squad of 18-20 players at this level, even after the expected clear-out this summer.

[prawn_ton]

Doms a great player - its a pity he cant get head right and get the hoops back on.

 

As for Finlayston, if we had 11 kevs we'd be the fittest team in the league.

[Dream Oak Tree]

Surely the sign of an effective winger are pace, ability to beat a man, crossing ability and a decent scoring record.

 

Ther first two attributes are required for the build up to make the end products of the next two attributes possible.

 

I'm afraid our two regular wingers fall quite short of what's required. For me the finishing cross or shot on target is the real sign of a good winger. If you look at some of the better examples, McGeady, Maloney etc. at the moment or Johnstone, Best etc. in the past, they all had a great end product. Even the best Morton wingers, McNeill, Tolmie, McNab, Rajamaki and more recently Andy McLaren could all cross and finish.

 

The scoring records of our current wingers make grim reading:

 

McAlister: 18 goals in 238 starts, around 3 goals per season

 

Finlayson: 5 goals in 126 starts, around 1 goal per season

 

I admire the work rate of both players, but really don't think the above return is good enough and is a possible clue to the composure and ability of the players.

[EBu]

I still maintain that all the Shimmin "injuries" started when the Shimminator T-Shirt was being touted...

[irnbru]

Surely the sign of an effective winger are pace, ability to beat a man, crossing ability and a decent scoring record.

 

Ther first two attributes are required for the build up to make the end products of the next two attributes possible.

 

I'm afraid our two regular wingers fall quite short of what's required. For me the finishing cross or shot on target is the real sign of a good winger. If you look at some of the better examples, McGeady, Maloney etc. at the moment or Johnstone, Best etc. in the past, they all had a great end product. Even the best Morton wingers, McNeill, Tolmie, McNab, Rajamaki and more recently Andy McLaren could all cross and finish.

 

The scoring records of our current wingers make grim reading:

 

McAlister: 18 goals in 238 starts, around 3 goals per season

 

Finlayson: 5 goals in 126 starts, around 1 goal per season

 

I admire the work rate of both players, but really don't think the above return is good enough and is a possible clue to the composure and ability of the players.

 

I dont think its really fair to judge them only on going forward.

 

In the time both players have been with us we haven't had proper full backs and have had guys like Chris Smith sitting in behind them meaning most of their game has been covering for others and tracking back. None of them have actually played as wingers over the years and have been more defence minded midfielders so its not right comparing them to out and out wingers.

 

Its only been the last few weeks that they have actually played as wingers and Finlayson, as someone already said, put in enough good crosses to win a few games on Saturday so lets give them a chance as attacking players before criticising. They will still have defensive duties of course, but not as much as the last few years.

 

For what its worth I think people have been extremely tough on Finlayson over the years. He always wants the ball no matter what people think of his abilities when on it, sticks to his position and gives the team a shape, has a great first touch (2nd, 3rd might be questionable at times!) and covers some amount of ground with his workrate. The arguement of anyone being able to give 100% is rubbish as his fitness and attitude come into this as well. I actually think hes been realy good all of this season and would be one of my first picks just now.

[Deego]

I still maintain that all the Shimmin "injuries" started when the Shimminator T-Shirt was being touted...

 

 

Wasn't it just after he broke Arbuckle's leg?

[jpmil]

IMO both of these players display a basic fault which is displayed when a teammate has the ball instead of moving forward drawing the fulback in/out and creating options they both go back towards the player on the ball and as a result no options are created. Surely this is something which good coaching should eliminate.

[TRVMP]

Have you been watching him recently? He's obviously been working hard at his crossing and he delivered enough excellent cross last Saturday to win several games. We should have scored at least twice from crosses he put in before McGuffie eventually did put one away!

 

Yes, I've been watching him recently. One swallow a summer does not make. He's been here for years and has only found a final ball one game out of every five, if that.

[Dream Oak Tree]

I dont think its really fair to judge them only on going forward.

 

In the time both players have been with us we haven't had proper full backs and have had guys like Chris Smith sitting in behind them meaning most of their game has been covering for others and tracking back. None of them have actually played as wingers over the years and have been more defence minded midfielders so its not right comparing them to out and out wingers.

 

Its only been the last few weeks that they have actually played as wingers and Finlayson, as someone already said, put in enough good crosses to win a few games on Saturday so lets give them a chance as attacking players before criticising. They will still have defensive duties of course, but not as much as the last few years.

 

For what its worth I think people have been extremely tough on Finlayson over the years. He always wants the ball no matter what people think of his abilities when on it, sticks to his position and gives the team a shape, has a great first touch (2nd, 3rd might be questionable at times!) and covers some amount of ground with his workrate. The arguement of anyone being able to give 100% is rubbish as his fitness and attitude come into this as well. I actually think hes been realy good all of this season and would be one of my first picks just now.

 

I did say I admire both players’ work rates and I happen to like both players and their attitudes to the club. I’ve also said before when they play as wing backs they’re the best in the division, as they proved against Baldachino and Skelton of Gretna several times.

 

My point here was not to judge them as full backs or wing backs, but as wingers going forward. I accept because of your above well made points that allowance should be made in their scoring rates for the fact they’ve played mostly as wing backs. However when I talk of their effectiveness it’s not in a personal sense or to criticize the players, my main concern is what are Morton getting in terms of effectiveness from each position (both wings in this case as the thread has turned in that direction).

 

Looking at it purely constructively and not personally, if both players are now going to be our regular attack minded wingers, not wing backs, are they effective enough to take the club forward? As I said in another thread I have been working in Turkmenistan since before Grady took over, so if I come back and see both players performing effectively as wingers under the new regime I’ll be delighted to retract the above apprehensions.

 

 

 

[Rampage Nu Sport]

Wasn't it just after he broke Arbuckle's leg?

 

That's an interesting thought - I ask myself how I would feel if I'd done that to someone (albiet accidently)?

[Jackie]

That's an interesting thought - I ask myself how I would feel if I'd done that to someone (albiet accidently)?

 

A fella I know, who was a standout player at junior level 10+ years ago, chucked it after he broke a boys leg. But I don't think this is the case with Dom.