Match Preview/Thread - Morton vs Partick (13th January)

[Mr.Blue]

12 hours ago, Deego said:

Just reading that was former Morton striker Iain Diack’s son that scored the equaliser today.

I watched one of their games recently and he came on. After first 5/10 mins I said to my son that he was Brian Graham 2.0. A horrible wee cunt, all elbows. He wasn't that bad yesterday but his reactions to being hounded by the shed for the ball flying in to the crowd from his tackle sum him up. I did think the abuse he got was harsh right enough as it want as if he kicked the ball directly into the shed. Still a prick though. 

And Graham at full time . We'd be better off ignoring that insignificant no mark.

[dunning1874]

15 hours ago, Madton said:

Wilson was on a booking. Power wasn't booked 

Aye I thought Power had got one on one of the occasions Napier was throwing bookings around like confetti, but apparently not.

[Toby]

16 hours ago, Scott said:

There were people joining the queue before 2.45 who missed kick off. 

 

16 hours ago, Pedrodelawasp said:

We set off early anticipating having more trouble parking than usual, but got a space no bother and wandered straight up and through the turnstiles in the stand.

Seeing quite so many people getting in throughout the first 15/20 minutes would suggest the issue is not simply about a lack of prompt arrivals, especially given we weren’t exactly close to a full house.

 

14 hours ago, vikingTON said:

 

Good to see an original white knight for Iron Man provide such an obvious ridiculous response, befitting of the nonsense produced at that time between the club and the Trust's relationship:

1) A blatantly false misrepresentation of an already enormous queue at 2:40 as the fault of 'folk turning up 5 minutes before kick-off'. 

2) Arguing under the premise that it is the job of paying customers to turn up long in advance of the event they've paid for, because the organisation running it is too incompetent to handle demand.

Meanwhile, back in the land of reality, Cappielow following its gubbins 'upgrade' should not actually have a safety certificate for more than 5,000 people - because if we get a genuinely big crowd either in the cup or a promotion game, then there's an accident waiting to happen outside on Sinclair Street. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Stevie Aitken's Love Child said:

I joined the queue at 2.45 and didn't get into the ground till 3 minutes after kick off. 2 more turnstiles is probably all that would be needed to resolve most of the issues faced with queuing IMO, and setting up individual queues for each turnstile I feel would also help. Hoping that a new GM in the door seeing these things at first hand will hopefully take it on board.

8 hours ago, dunning1874 said:

This is objectively untrue. There were literally hundreds of people who joined the queue 10 minutes before the game and were still outside the ground 10 minutes after kick off.

See even if it was true that fans turning at 2:58 and expecting to make kick-off was the cause? This still wouldn't be an absolution for the turnstiles, because before Warren's white elephant people could and did walk out the Norseman and straight into the crowd without having to queue. It is an easily observable fact that trying to get into the ground is far, far worse than it ever was in the past. That's beside the point anyway, as people were inconveniencing themselves by getting in the queue earlier than they ever had before Warren's legacy, and were still left standing outside for 15 minutes of the game.

The current custodians of the club have inherited this mess so the root cause isn't on them, but tough shit, they are now Morton FC so it's their shambles to fix. A tweet blaming when fans arrived isn't acceptable, the issue is there simply aren't enough turnstiles. You'd think if Warren Hawke could count we wouldn't have ended up with just 4 turnstiles when you evidently need 8 as an absolute minimum, but this is the hand you were dealt in inheriting 20 years of gross incompetence from charlatans.

Considering how costly they were in the first place with that idiot overseeing procurement I don't know how easy it is to fix, but they need to at least double the number. It won't be a popular choice with how much money more turnstiles will divert from other areas if it ends up a six figure sum again, but it'll cost us more not to do it in the long run. How many people "brought a friend" today for a big game with Morton in good form, got to experience a good atmosphere and saw us play well, but nevertheless won't come back because they paid £22 to stand in a barely moving queue for 25 minutes?

 

10 hours ago, irnbru said:

It was fine about 10-15 minutes before the game. I was there then and was in with time to speak to a mate for 5 mins then go to the bit I stand at so no whataboutery here. I agree improvements are needed but there also needs to be a bit of realism from people turning up so close to kick off. 

I’ve just pulled five examples from this thread that contradict what you’re saying, and haven’t looked across any other social media platforms, where I’m pretty sure I’d find a few more.

At which point are you going to accept that your interpretation of what happened yesterday appears fanciful at best?

Your point about fans being realistic and turning up so close to kick off doesn’t cut it when we’re talking about fans turning up a full 15-20 minutes before the game starts.

At £22 a skull, or as part of a £300-odd season ticket which about a third of that crowd committed to months ago, and with the third-lowest average crowds in the division, Morton aren’t in the position to be telling folk to take an extra half hour out of their leisure time to make things easier for the club, and they’re certainly not in the position to come onto social media after the match and blame the folk who so generously put their hands in their pockets to support them.

I entered the ground at 2.30 yesterday- quite deliberately as I anticipated a shit show at the turnstiles and it still took me five minutes to get in, but with so many accounts from different folk differing from yours, the only conclusion that an objective observer can come to is that you’re talking shite.

I don’t understand whether you see this as playing devil’s advocate, or are sticking up for your old pal Hawke (who doesn’t, and never did give a shiny shite about anything you had to say at any point in the past, never mind now), but given that this has happened every time we’ve had a relatively big game since 2017, there has to be a point that even you will concede that drastic action needs to be taken, here.

For a club that is so dependant on folk turning up at the gates, this simply can’t go on, and your stance on this isn’t just unhelpful, it is in fact damaging to the club to take onboard such stances if they wish to find a resolution to this.

[Toby]

Further examples from replies to the club’s social media:

Facebook:

Brian Renfrew

20 minute wait in queue for me.

Tam Leisk

Fukn haf 3 before we got in !!!!! Absolute shambles

Stephen Spencer

The ticket system has not worked properly  when needed since day 1 and it probaly cost a few quid got to be a better system imagine what sort of time you will have to wait if there was 5000 turning up

Jonathan Mungin

The club asked fans to turnout and support the team which they did yet this was the queue at Sinclair Street at 3pm kickoff time with queues for the 4 cowshed turnstiles still going up the Street. On asking the head steward why  a request had not been made to delay kickoff I was told it wasn't her job to do so The inadequate number of turnstiles to service an area  that can accommodate circa 7k spectators might not be the stewards fault but the  management of crowd safety absolutely is. Ps I was queuing from 2.40pm and didn't get in until 3.08pm

Greg Metcalfe

Every week. EVERY WEEK.

Mick McMenemie

They have hand held scanners for the away end. Why not get a few more for the home end when they know it's gonna be busy? Open the big gate and scan folk in that way?

Greg Metcalfe

We need an express/bespoke gate of the 4 back as Season Ticket holders only.

This was always an advantage of buying a season ticket, and is now gone.

This would also take around 1000 people off the main queue.

This would give season ticket holders the advantage they used to have, while also naturally managing the queue better.
At the moment it’s just a rabble of people eventually filtering into 4 random queues. 

Also possibly  have a parent/child gate, that slows everything down with the unmanned gates, the parent having to scan their kid(s) through first and then wait on the other side is a big delay to the main queues from what I observe.

1 season ticket express turnstile with regulars who know how to use the scanner.

2/3 general admission turnstiles for the rest of them.

Possibly 1 devoted to families.

This could be easily managed and stewarded with a little effort. They need to try something new. 

If this isn’t fixed for next season I’ll not be renewing my season ticket.

Fraser Pollock

It’s mental there are Morton fans on here claiming there isn’t an issue. The ground wasn’t even near half of its capacity. When there are fans still streaming in beyond 20 past 3 there’s obviously an issue that goes beyond just “folk spilling out the Norseman at 5 to expecting to walk in”. The queue was up to the bridge at 20 to 3. 

The turnstiles are obviously a hangover from a previous era but need to be prioritised by the club. We lost a lot of money and goodwill today and this should serve as a warning moving forward.

Greg Metcalfe

Craig Conway you shouldn’t have to go to Cappielow half an hour to 20 minutes early to get in, the place is a tenth full!

Have a dedicated season ticket turnstile, maybe a family one, rest for general tickets. The queue will fly
Down

Jack McQuilkin

4 turnstiles for 2000 odd supporters isnt enough. whats it going to be like if we draw rangers or celtic at cappielow never mind playing partick thistle.

John Borthwick

4 turnstiles is a joke. what would it be like for a 5-6 thousand crowd.

Danny Groot Morrison

Just not good enough.

John Morgan

Didn’t delay the kick off though, despite being large crowds outside? Including me. I didn’t wait, and walked off. Not good Morton, get it sorted.

Instagram:

mcgbaz

First impressions count to the new fans therefore standing outside. Missing first 15 mins of game. Not good PR. I’ve. Said for years the stewarding and turnstiles is an issue. Yet nothing changes

Twitter:

StuCam

Turnstile management really poor, advertised all week to bring crowds in then couldn’t manage. Better planning required

john.buie

Need to sort out them turnstiles or risk turning the increased support away

tinhatwarrior

Can you think of a plan to make entry more smooth for the fans the amount after 15:00 outside is outrageous, you wanna keep fans then fix things like this .

Harold Goodfortune

Seeing Qs up Sinclair St at 315pm, Sir, is a dreadful look. Easily sorted. Over to you #Monehton

Alan Collins

Should have a season ticket gate

Sammy Mcfarlane

Turnstiles are a farce. Thanks Warren

Christopher McEleny

Big bad fans to blame? Seems easy solution is risk assess using the flood gate as an overflow with hand scanning QR codes for entry. There’s no point having a fancy mobile device app if you don’t bother to utilise it and instead rely on turnstiles fit only for a crowd of under 2k

1874 Ton

You should have ended your tweet with this rather than putting the blame on the fans.

“We apologise again as we should have anticipated this and planned accordingly.”

1874 Ton

How many fans entered the terracing through those 4 gates?
What is the average time taken for 1 person to enter the stadium?
Really simple to workout that we don’t have nearly enough turnstiles for a game where there’ll be a bigger than normal crowd.

Wee Harry

I knew it was going to happen, so left the pub early. Looked like the 1996 game against Dundee United out there lol

graeme ross

Lads you need to sort this

Lewis McLeod

Tiny wee team couldn’t handle 2k plus home fans

GJ

I.e. “there was a problem but we aren’t taking any ownership of it.” Poor.

BinPin_Scot

missed 20 minutes

Murray Gray

Not acceptable. Stewards only interested in going throught the waiting queue taking stuff off of people. Asked about alternatives to the queuing system deployed no answer was give. Lack of control and responsibility

Thomas Smillie

Hawkes legacy. 
We've replaced 9 gates that could filter the crowd (season tix, parent & child etc) for 4 selfscan gates where its pot luck if the code is read. 
The issue is exacerbated by the stewards that seem to think an acceptable level of service is just shouting at punters

Cameron

Translation: We haven't got nearly enough turnstiles, our stewards are useless tw*ts, and as such couldn't get you in for the full 90.

[LargsTON]

There's nothing wrong with the turnstiles, the problem is there's only 4 of them.  We simply need a couple more.   What WAS a disgrace was the fact there was no delay to the game til everyone got in. £22 to see an hour of football.  Sort it out.

Edited January 14 by LargsTON

[TopCat]

As usual, the stewarding was shite as well. Loads of people in front of me were really struggling with the scanner and holding up progress. The steward was standing off the side in front of the exit gate dealing with complaints, rather than standing showing folk the daft angle you need to hold your phone at.

[SpoonTon]

I joined the queue at 2.54 and got in just after 3.10. The fact that the queue was still all the way up to the ticket office and around when I got in shows that there were a lot of people that arrived with no more than 5 minutes to go before kickoff. Even with double the number of turnstiles, we wouldn't have cleared the queue till at least 10 past. 

I hadn't intended to arrive at the time I did, but I was held up before leaving and didn't expect to get in for kick off. I don't think we should deny that too many people turned up just before kickoff. But the club can't then complain afterwards when they didn't offer any clear and obvious advice on this in the lead up to the match. We all know there aren't enough turnstiles, and I have no idea how we'd handle an actual big crowd, but one thing we definitely can do is advise fans to turn up at an earlier time. We're in a rubbish situation which needs a solution or a contingency sooner rather than later, but right now the club needs to make a better job of planning for the situation we're in. That can start with advising fans to arrive earlier for games like this one. 

[SpoonTon]

1 hour ago, TopCat said:

As usual, the stewarding was shite as well. Loads of people in front of me were really struggling with the scanner and holding up progress. The steward was standing off the side in front of the exit gate dealing with complaints, rather than standing showing folk the daft angle you need to hold your phone at.

The thing is, it's not really a daft angle and it's not difficult once you know how. Once you've done it once or twice you should know exactly where to hold it. As long as you don't hold it too close, it's very easy. 

My issue, and the issue with the last system too, is that it seems very easy to print and laminate a picture of where to hold it and stick it at the entries, and also post short videos of how to do it on social media before games. I have no clue why we don't do that. It's clear that not everyone will know how to do it without being shown, but it should be easy to find ways to show people. 

[TopCat]

Exactly. We still don't have enough turnstiles, but a decent sign above them that's visible from further back in the queue and some stewards who actually help folk who struggle would definitely make a difference.

[Toby]

16 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

I joined the queue at 2.54 and got in just after 3.10. The fact that the queue was still all the way up to the ticket office and around when I got in shows that there were a lot of people that arrived with no more than 5 minutes to go before kickoff. Even with double the number of turnstiles, we wouldn't have cleared the queue till at least 10 past. 

I hadn't intended to arrive at the time I did, but I was held up before leaving and didn't expect to get in for kick off. I don't think we should deny that too many people turned up just before kickoff. But the club can't then complain afterwards when they didn't offer any clear and obvious advice on this in the lead up to the match. We all know there aren't enough turnstiles, and I have no idea how we'd handle an actual big crowd, but one thing we definitely can do is advise fans to turn up at an earlier time. We're in a rubbish situation which needs a solution or a contingency sooner rather than later, but right now the club needs to make a better job of planning for the situation we're in. That can start with advising fans to arrive earlier for games like this one. 

We’re well past the stage of telling people to arrive early being the starting point, though. That was maybe acceptable in 2017 when the turnstiles were first installed, but in 2024 the onus in finding a solution is being sat squarely at the feet of the paying customer, rather than the club.

There is no sign of the club taking feedback on board from the fans about this, no acceptance of their own culpability, no noises made about any plans going forward, just an explanation that it was the fans turning up late.

Of course, plenty would have turned up around five to and can’t really expect the be getting in at a reasonable time if they do that, but there are far too many folk who appeared to turn up around twenty to or quarter to citing their own problems for their complaints to be considered as invalid or untrue.

8 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

The thing is, it's not really a daft angle and it's not difficult once you know how. Once you've done it once or twice you should know exactly where to hold it. As long as you don't hold it too close, it's very easy. 

My issue, and the issue with the last system too, is that it seems very easy to print and laminate a picture of where to hold it and stick it at the entries, and also post short videos of how to do it on social media before games. I have no clue why we don't do that. It's clear that not everyone will know how to do it without being shown, but it should be easy to find ways to show people. 

And therein lies the problem with folk who are unfamiliar with the system having to use them at the gate when there are time constraints. This isn’t their fault though, nobody just jumps on a bike are rides off into the sunset at the first time of asking. But how well are they being trained in how to use them? How patient or helpful are the stewards? Is this done at the expense of holding up others?

You can’t go issuing “bring a friend” calls like MCT did yesterday and then absolve yourself of all responsibility when folk bring friends and it all goes to shit.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

I joined the queue at 2.54 and got in just after 3.10. The fact that the queue was still all the way up to the ticket office and around when I got in shows that there were a lot of people that arrived with no more than 5 minutes to go before kickoff. 

No it doesn't because the queue was already beyond the ticket office at 2:40. What you in fact found was the tail end of a queue that people had been standing in like spare pricks for the previous 20 minutes if not more already. 

[SpoonTon]

55 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

No it doesn't because the queue was already beyond the ticket office at 2:40. What you in fact found was the tail end of a queue that people had been standing in like spare pricks for the previous 20 minutes if not more already. 

I'm not really sure what you're saying here or how it's relevant to what you've quoted. 

 

[TRVMP]

2 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

That can start with advising fans to arrive earlier for games like this one. 

They've been doing that for years but oddly enough, since this isn't the World Cup final, people aren't that enthusiastic about standing around in the street in a badly-managed crowd with no visible queue lines so that they can have a 20% chance of their ticket scan not working. 

I guarantee people are showing up earlier than they used to on average, but even showing up at 2:40 isn't sufficient anymore. Hence the problem now lies entirely with the club and not the fans. 

[SpoonTon]

2 hours ago, Toby said:

We’re well past the stage of telling people to arrive early being the starting point, though. That was maybe acceptable in 2017 when the turnstiles were first installed, but in 2024 the onus in finding a solution is being sat squarely at the feet of the paying customer, rather than the club.

There is no sign of the club taking feedback on board from the fans about this, no acceptance of their own culpability, no noises made about any plans going forward, just an explanation that it was the fans turning up late.

Of course, plenty would have turned up around five to and can’t really expect the be getting in at a reasonable time if they do that, but there are far too many folk who appeared to turn up around twenty to or quarter to citing their own problems for their complaints to be considered as invalid or untrue.

And therein lies the problem with folk who are unfamiliar with the system having to use them at the gate when there are time constraints. This isn’t their fault though, nobody just jumps on a bike are rides off into the sunset at the first time of asking. But how well are they being trained in how to use them? How patient or helpful are the stewards? Is this done at the expense of holding up others?

You can’t go issuing “bring a friend” calls like MCT did yesterday and then absolve yourself of all responsibility when folk bring friends and it all goes to shit.

Well past that point or not, it would have helped. As would helping to ensure more people knew how to scan their ticket. The situation would have been far worse if the online ticketing situation hasn't been sorted in the summer. The club obviously need to continue to move on the right direction and it's fair to ask why progress has been slow, but much of it could have been mitigated by communicating a bit better and asking people to turn up earlier. You might not like where the onus is being placed, but it was the most readily available practical steps that could have been taken this week. It's not an answer to criticisms of the system, or a shield to say that they are right and the fans are wrong, but something pragmatic to help the situation at hand. 

[SpoonTon]

5 minutes ago, TRVMP said:

They've been doing that for years but oddly enough, since this isn't the World Cup final, people aren't that enthusiastic about standing around in the street in a badly-managed crowd with no visible queue lines so that they can have a 20% chance of their ticket scan not working. 

I guarantee people are showing up earlier than they used to on average, but even showing up at 2:40 isn't sufficient anymore. Hence the problem now lies entirely with the club and not the fans. 

They didn't do it in any way I noticed this week. 

I've already pointed out the fact that many, many fans arrived after I did at 2.54. And at no point did I say that the only problem was the time that fans turned up, or that the solution to the issue of only having 4 turnstiles was to forever saying turn up early. The point I was making, and I'll try to be clear because I really don't want to argue about something I agree with, was that the club can't complain about people showing up late of they didn't make it clear that they wanted them to turn up earlier. 

The queue lines, or lack of, have been another annoyance of mine for years. It's so badly organised. We're certainly in no way making the best of a bad situation. It's the least we could try to do. But, and I'll say this again, a proper solution is very obviously required. 

[Toby]

9 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Well past that point or not, it would have helped. As would helping to ensure more people knew how to scan their ticket. The situation would have been far worse if the online ticketing situation hasn't been sorted in the summer. The club obviously need to continue to move on the right direction and it's fair to ask why progress has been slow, but much of it could have been mitigated by communicating a bit better and asking people to turn up earlier. You might not like where the onus is being placed, but it was the most readily available practical steps that could have been taken this week. It's not an answer to criticisms of the system, or a shield to say that they are right and the fans are wrong, but something pragmatic to help the situation at hand. 

It’s not really about what I like though, is it? I’ve already said in this thread that I was inside the ground in sufficient time as I anticipated problems yesterday. But I’m familiar with the procedures (or lack of) at Cappielow on a match day.

Given that the crowd yesterday was roughly 75% higher than the season’s average, there would have been an awful lot of folk who weren’t as familiar with them as I am.

I don’t disagree with your point that encouraging people to turn up early would have been the easiest step they could have taken, and they should have, but my point is that we should be well beyond that stage by now, and the reason we’re not is because not enough has been done to address these issues over a six and a half year period.

Of course, the best step forward they have taken off the park in recent years has been the move to Fanbase, making the purchase of tickets seamless, but it’s a bit like VAR. There’s no point in having an all-singing-all-dancing system if people don’t know how to operate it, or you don’t have the capacity to operate it.

Also, a blind refusal to acknowledge that the club themselves could have done things better doesn’t sit well. For all the expectation of turning up en masse at 2.55 and expecting to be in for kick off is unreasonable, it’s equally as unreasonable of the club not to accept they have to work on improving things, especially when they are the ones taking the fans’ money for 70, rather than 90 minutes of football.

[HamCam]

In terms of the football a point was probably a fair result. Morton dominated the first half but never really turned up for the next 45 minutes. I have been a critic of both Wilson and Broadfoot this season but in in recent months both have been consistent performers and are making me eat my words. When Wilson was substituted we lost control of the midfield. It was difficult to argue with the other subs but for a change they never influenced the game in a positive manner. As for the referee the best I can say is he appeared to infuriate both benches in equal measure. 

Turning to the entry management to the ground. First off, what a poor statement from the club. Anyone who had half a brain could have predicted a crowd somewhere from 3,000 to 4,000. As a long-standing critic of the Hawke vanity project I still struggle that all these years later the gates cannot cope with a 'decent' crowd. Leaving aside the criticism about more gates surely the club should have measures in place for queuing and addressing issues on entry? As frustrating as it is a lot of people especially the older generation struggle with the technology. I watched as fans could not successfully scan their tickets and/or had their ticket rejected as it turned out they were trying to get in the Cowshed but had inadvertently bought a ticket for the away end. Rather than arguing with fans and telling them they had to queue at the ticket office to get the issue resolved they could have simply buzzed them through. When you get the opportunity to encourage new fans into Cappielow the last thing the club should be doing is blaming them for not arriving half an hour before kick-off. As a club we need to do better.

[Jack Bauer]

I was able to get to Cappielow at 1440 and was shocked at the queue management or lack of it. I managed to get into the ground at 5  past 3. Aside from the chaotic queues , i also could see an issue with the turnstile rejecting tickets including season tickets. No one appeared to know what to do other than ask them to go back to the ticket office which would have been infuriating.

This whole turnstile, queuing and entering the ground issue is an embarrassment and really needs to be properly addressed and resolved once and for all. 

 

JB

Edited January 14 by Jack Bauer
missing number

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

I'm not really sure what you're saying here or how it's relevant to what you've quoted. 

 

I misread your post but the main reason for that is that your original post does not stand up your argument anyway.

1) That some people joined a queue after you did doesn't address the most significant issue yesterday - the ginormo-queue that was already present, by the time that you and others politely request customers turn up at. 

2) At least a few of those fans will likely have been waiting for the queue to subside before actually joining it. Just because they're behind you doesn't mean that they didn't turn up at their mandated timeslot. 

3) Your assertion on another thread that it's not difficult to scan tickets  "as long as you don't hold it too close" is an obvious contradiction in terms. How close exactly is 'too close' - where is the instruction about this at the gate? Or better still, where is a rest fitted underneath the scanner that would allow customers to automatically place their ticket at a scannable distance? 

It's ridiculous to presume that the onus is on the customer to traipse to the ground half an hour before kick off - rain or shine - and to internalise the ins and outs of the club's white elephant infrastructure project, all before paying significant money to watch Championship football. They're not going to their place of work - they are spending their free time on a leisure activity. And with the eye-rolling mentality that persists among a minority of posters and club officials too (hopefully only a minority too), the chances are that they'll find something else to do with that time and money instead. 

[Admin]