Commercial Activity

[Greacen2000]

15 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

If it keeps generating literally zero revenue, the service just won't be supplied at all. 

They started advertising full or half season overseas streaming subscription service last week so I would take that as meaning the decision has already been made to continue the service for the season ahead.

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, Greacen2000 said:

They started advertising full or half season overseas streaming subscription service last week so I would take that as meaning the decision has already been made to continue the service for the season ahead.

Err right, and then it'll get ditched next season as being 'no longer sustainable'. 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

2 hours ago, vikingTON said:

Err right, and then it'll get ditched next season as being 'no longer sustainable'. 

The early season gremlins seems to have been sorted.

It's ran by volunteers and the infrastructure already exists, so I don't think it costs that much to run it, and it's 150 quid for a season subscription, so I'd be surprised if it didn't turn a decent profit. I'm sure if it didn't, it wouldn't have been continued this season.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

The early season gremlins seems to have been sorted.

It's ran by volunteers and the infrastructure already exists, so I don't think it costs that much to run it, and it's 150 quid for a season subscription, so I'd be surprised if it didn't turn a decent profit.

If you're either too dense or too stubborn to understand how streaming directly impacts gate revenue, sure. A competent business recognises the relationship between the two and calculates a figure at which one form of revenue surpasses the other to make it worthwhile.

Thumping in labour cost + equipment cost = phuree money is Rae-esque incompetence.

"I'm sure if it didn't, it wouldn't have been continued this season."

I don't recall many of last season's games being subject to blanket refunds, so that claim is completely redundant.

[Greacen2000]

12 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

If you're either too dense or too stubborn to understand how streaming directly impacts gate revenue, sure. A competent business recognises the relationship between the two and calculates a figure at which one form of revenue surpasses the other to make it worthwhile.

Thumping in labour cost + equipment cost = phuree money is Rae-esque incompetence.

"I'm sure if it didn't, it wouldn't have been continued this season."

I don't recall many of last season's games being subject to blanket refunds, so that claim is completely redundant.

To be clear, are you just talking about offering PPV option for pre-season games (and other ones that don’t fall under the broadcasting ban), or are you also talking about the overseas subscription service?

[Toby]

26 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

If you're either too dense or too stubborn to understand how streaming directly impacts gate revenue, sure. A competent business recognises the relationship between the two and calculates a figure at which one form of revenue surpasses the other to make it worthwhile.

Thumping in labour cost + equipment cost = phuree money is Rae-esque incompetence.

"I'm sure if it didn't, it wouldn't have been continued this season."

I don't recall many of last season's games being subject to blanket refunds, so that claim is completely redundant.

Is that not the whole point in selling it on a multi-match basis, though? I accept that folk are more likely to buy a stream instead of going to an individual game, but unless they live abroad or as I suggested the other week, are housebound, are they really going to be that arsed about a season’s worth or a half season’s worth of it is available in the UK? Okay, perhaps Alibi, but I’d say he’s the exception, rather than the rule.

I remember you missing out on a really enjoyable season in 2012-13 because you were studying in Slovakia at the time, and I had a degree of sympathy for you. Now, folk living outside these shores do have access to something that would have been of great benefit to you back then.

I’d like to think I’m wrong, but rather than counting the pennies on Morton’s behalf, it’s coming across as you wanting to see someone deprived of a recently found pleasure in life for having the temerity to live abroad.

[BishopBrennan]

15 minutes ago, Toby said:

Is that not the whole point in selling it on a multi-match basis, though? I accept that folk are more likely to buy a stream instead of going to an individual game, but unless they live abroad or as I suggested the other week, are housebound, are they really going to be that arsed about a season’s worth or a half season’s worth of it is available in the UK? Okay, perhaps Alibi, but I’d say he’s the exception, rather than the rule.

I remember you missing out on a really enjoyable season in 2012-13 because you were studying in Slovakia at the time, and I had a degree of sympathy for you. Now, folk living outside these shores do have access to something that would have been of great benefit to you back then.

I’d like to think I’m wrong, but rather than counting the pennies on Morton’s behalf, it’s coming across as you wanting to see someone deprived of a recently found pleasure in life for having the temerity to live abroad.

If the Cappielow infrastructure allows a high-quality stream then it's definitely something the club should be facilitating. I'd have loved this facility in the years I spent abroad. It's a massive upgrade from sitting listening to Open All Mics or watching games via dodgy Periscope/Bet365 streams.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

31 minutes ago, Toby said:

 I’d like to think I’m wrong, but rather than counting the pennies on Morton’s behalf, it’s coming across as you wanting to see someone deprived of a recently found pleasure in life for having the temerity to live abroad.

That thought had also crossed my mind more than once, but I assumed he's not as petty and immature as that.

But you know him a lot better than me.

[Alibi]

I remember in 1976-77 working in Ghana and on a Saturday I happened across football coverage from Scotland on short wave radio.  It was a fairly poor signal as short wave usually was (does anyone broadcast on short wave any more?), Kilmarnock v Dunfermline I think it was.  Not a game I would ever listen to under normal circumstances but I wanted to hear how Morton got on.  The day before I flew out to West Africa, I was at Love Street watching Andy Ritchie (making his debut I think) against St Mirren.  Things have moved on a lot since then but when you can't be at the game, being able to find out what's going on is a great morale booster.  I think everyone would prefer to be at games in person, but why this mean-spirited attitude to anyone who can't be there in person?  It's technically possible and I doubt it costs much to do given that our games are generally being videoed anyway.  Those luddites who oppose streaming of games are just in effect directing people to the likes of Sky where they'll get force fed the bigot brothers most weeks.

[TRVMP]

The season tickets as opposed to PPV is a good way of doing it. It discourages away fans from buying a stream and using a VPN rather than going to the game, but still allows "legitimate" supporters to follow.

I've bought a full streaming season ticket even though I'll miss games now and again due to work (midweek games are mid-afternoon here) or personal commitments. It's a very fair deal overall.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

7 minutes ago, TRVMP said:

The season tickets as opposed to PPV is a good way of doing it. It discourages away fans from buying a stream and using a VPN rather than going to the game, but still allows "legitimate" supporters to follow.

I've bought a full streaming season ticket even though I'll miss games now and again due to work (midweek games are mid-afternoon here) or personal commitments. It's a very fair deal overall.

Of course it's a very fair deal for both the club and overseas fans alike, but some are too dense or too stubborn to see it.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Cet Homme Charmant

[Jamie_M]

53 minutes ago, TRVMP said:

The season tickets as opposed to PPV is a good way of doing it. 

It's also the rule now. You have to sell a subscription not a match.

Granted, some are pushing it by offering month passes.

[TONofmemories]

23 hours ago, capitanus said:

Whats wrong with wanting your money back?

If you bought a pie and it had hairs on it, you'd want your money back.

 

Next.

I wouldn't bat an eye lid 

[TONofmemories]

4 hours ago, BishopBrennan said:

If the Cappielow infrastructure allows a high-quality stream then it's definitely something the club should be facilitating. I'd have loved this facility in the years I spent abroad. It's a massive upgrade from sitting listening to Open All Mics or watching games via dodgy Periscope/Bet365 streams.

Andy Morrisons periscopes were a thing to behold.

Pure vintage

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Of course it's a very fair deal for both the club and overseas fans alike, but some are too dense or too stubborn to see it.

So you're claiming that there will be no streams available of Morton home games this season, to anyone who hasn't signed up for the official season ticket? 

[vikingTON]

8 hours ago, Toby said:

Is that not the whole point in selling it on a multi-match basis, though? I accept that folk are more likely to buy a stream instead of going to an individual game, but unless they live abroad or as I suggested the other week, are housebound, are they really going to be that arsed about a season’s worth or a half season’s worth of it is available in the UK? Okay, perhaps Alibi, but I’d say he’s the exception, rather than the rule.

I remember you missing out on a really enjoyable season in 2012-13 because you were studying in Slovakia at the time, and I had a degree of sympathy for you. Now, folk living outside these shores do have access to something that would have been of great benefit to you back then.

I’d like to think I’m wrong, but rather than counting the pennies on Morton’s behalf, it’s coming across as you wanting to see someone deprived of a recently found pleasure in life for having the temerity to live abroad.

As above - the issue has got nothing to do with the handful of genuine customers but rather the cart and horses that streaming inevitably runs through the club's primary source of revenue. I don't think that you can reliably gatekeep access to content on the Internet - least of all a football club that can't even get its own website In working order. 

I've missed multiple seasons while abroad but personally speaking, I wouldn't actually sign up for a streaming service if that happened again (at least not now - 2010 or 2012/13 might have been different). Others feel differently and that's their right but it's hardly an essential service being provided here. Everyone lived in a pre-streaming world not too long ago and engaged as much or as little with the games as they chose when outside of Greenock, every single week. The club has to be hard-headed in comparing all the costs - including lost revenue from matchday fans - to make a serious judgment on its viability. And if it fails that test then it has to go because we're not in a position to carry dead weight. 

A final point is the hypocrisy at the centre of this issue. We want (and claim) Morton's stream to be a securely provided service to Legitimate Needs Only. But when many Morton fans quite rightly refuse to pay the ridiculous £27 at Tannadice this season, how many will be trawling around at 2:57PM looking for a dodgy stream of the game and pay precisely £0? How many will succeed and pass on the link to others to hook up to? We can't have it both ways here. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by vikingTON

[Toby]

8 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

As above - the issue has got nothing to do with the handful of genuine customers but rather the cart and horses that streaming inevitably runs through the club's primary source of revenue. I don't think that you can reliably gatekeep access to content on the Internet - least of all a football club that can't even get its own website In working order. 

I've missed multiple seasons while abroad but personally speaking, I wouldn't actually sign up for a streaming service if that happened again (at least not now - 2010 or 2012/13 might have been different). Others feel differently and that's their right but it's hardly an essential service being provided here. Everyone lived in a pre-streaming world not too long ago and engaged as much or as little with the games as they chose when outside of Greenock, every single week.

It depends on how you define essential- I’d certainly say that at the very least it’s a game changer, and as I mentioned the other week, I was pleased my pal’s dad (who you of course knew) had access to the Morton games on streams for a season or two before he passed away.

For a guy like him it was essential- he simply wasn’t able to go to games and being able to see the games was a great thing for him in his final days. I think it’s a bit thoughtless to consider something like that as a luxury that can be dispensed with in the same way the match programmes were last season.

You’re certainly correct in your concerns about gatekeeping, but that’s just a new challenge to overcome, just like the move from split revenues, the introduction of live TV, the explosion of live TV in the 90s, Bosman, streaming platforms themselves and many others.

I’d say peoples’ expectations change as regards what is essential- it’s not that long ago that many houses didn’t have an internet connection, and still in living memory for some that their houses didn’t have inside toilets.

We may well find in the future that streaming is deemed an essential source of revenue in the same way that TV, initially treated with such caution, has become today, given the exposure it could give to a club like Morton out with the environs of Inverclyde.

[TRVMP]

It's obviously not a direct comparison but if you want to see an industry that "leaned in" to the lack of gatekeeping online, look no further than music. They fought a rearguard action against Napster and Kazaa and the like and ended up giving away the store with Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music etc. Obviously this came at great cost to the labels and publ- sorry, can't finish that without laughing. Obviously this came at great cost to the artists but it had to be done.

No idea how or even if football at any level can learn any lessons from this but it's worth considering. For the time being the dodgy streams for Championship games are few enough and low enough in number that it must still be worth the club getting (I assume?) a low five-figure a year* income for the relatively low outlay.

(*I'm figuring around 50 full subs then a few people buying a few one-off cup games. These figures are completely made up, I could be miles off in either direction.)

[TRVMP]

I will say that anything with exposure for Morton qua Morton as a club is probably a non-starter. There are so many clubs worldwide and nobody really cares. When "Partick" had that shan mascot everyone, even non-football fans, was gawking at them for about a day. They maybe sold half a dozen shirts off the back of that, then everything went back to normal. I think outside the top, top clubs, the age of a team getting exposure that translates into long-term revenue is over. The best you can realistically hope for is a person getting exposure who in turn gets the team some residual benefit. At the top level of the game that's Messi with Inter Miami.* At our level it'll be influencers and vloggers

*He has a revenue sharing agreement with Adidas - who provide all MLS kits - and with MLS itself for ticket sales, to show that this works in reverse as well.

Edited August 10, 2023 by TRVMP

[so72]

Having recently moved abroad, in really grateful for his and glad to see the early season problems are gone, I'll buy it a season subscription now as that was my only hesitation. 

 

I can't imagine there are many match-going Morton supporters who would choose to watch us on vipleague over going to Cappielow. I know you can't trust anecdotal evidence but none of the 5/6 guys who joined me on and off over the last couple seasons would watch Morton anywhere other than in person as the quality isn't why any of them go.