Morton Club Together Updates

[TRVMP]

3 hours ago, DumfriesTon said:

And that's before getting on to the depressing guff about McPherson. We wanted stability but give him a 2 year deal. Stability, if that's what they wanted, could happen with a 1 year deal. Then Nick Robinson's answer basically suggesting we don't have the money to sack McPherson.  Makes the 2 year deal even more absurd.  

I've been harping on this for weeks - this is the opposite of sustainability. Signing a manager on the never-never, paying him with gate receipts as they come in with no way of ending it... that's utter madness. If the response is - "well, we needed a manager"... you didn't need a manager on a two year deal. "But that's what experienced managers with a strong track record get." Then clearly that's not our level in the market. We wouldn't sign a senior player up on high wages for multiple years, so why a manager? They're having their cake and eating it. People with senior football experience at a board or operational level are apparently a luxury we can't afford, but we need a two-year manager despite not being able to afford him? But simultaneously he's of so little consequence we can't budget for if he might go wrong? 

This isn't leadership from the Board. This is anti-leadership. It's a litany of excuses with no single person who'll grasp the situation and fix it. And that means the exact same thing will happen again and again. 

[Ashman]

They talked about the need to attract more fans turning up to games, the target of finishing 8th at least in the league, breaking even and stability. When we can’t even score goals never mind win games then none of these objectives will be possible. 
Worryingly, it doesn’t appear to be possible for the board to sack Gus. We will continue to lose under him, continue to fail in front of goal under him and the board will allow it to happen and therefor fail to meet their objectives. 
They need to act now and save this season 

[LargsTON]

The sooner this whole fan ownership nonsense is fired into the sun the better for everyone.  By all means use MCT as a vehicle to supplement wages and boost the playing budget but we simply don't have the numbers required to make us anything other than a tinpot outfit for the rest of what may well be our short history.  It beggars belief how anyone could think this set up would work in the first place with less than 1000 contributors.  Dunfermline have 3000 and are hardly riding the crest of a wave.  Advertise for new owners, investors, whatever....who cares.  Just anything but MCT.  

[BishopBrennan]

I’ve just watched the Q&A (twice), and to say it is uninspiring is being generous. I have absolutely no qualms with the footballing aim of the season being Championship survival, along with striving for sustainability. Between Lesley Ann, who could sell snow to the Eskimos, and Chris Ross coming on board with a solid background of income generation, I’ve got no concerns that the club will maximise revenues. 
I took issue when my question about football expertise on the board was kicked into the long grass. This issue has been raised for the best part of a year now, both internally and externally, so blustered ‘we’re considering it’ type answers really don’t cut the mustard at this stage of proceedings. This is particularly galling when our football decision model thus far has left us as the lowest scoring team in the SPFL with a manager we don’t seem able to sack because of the length of deal we offered. Stability can quite easily be achieved at this level with one year rolling contracts. If only there had been someone in place at the time to advise the board of that…
I don’t buy the ‘when finances allow’ argument either. It was acknowledged at least once in the video that a winning football team on the pitch helps boost crowds and engagement, which were stated as key aims of the club in the near future. So, improving footballing performance has tangible benefits to the rest of the club. A good appointment to oversee footballing operations could quite easily justify their salary through an increase in league prize money alone. I'd go as far as arguing that Morton can't afford not to appoint a Sporting Director. To examine the worst-case outcome, MCT overseeing a limp-wristed relegation in their first season will affect their credibility massively. I’d argue that MCT are quite a way behind where they expected to be at this stage of the project in terms of their membership numbers, gaining the trust of the fanbase and their overall credibility. I’m open to all accusations of hyperbole, but if MCT do not change the current manager and/or their governance model, and the club go down this year, it will be the first nail in Morton Club Together’s coffin. And a large one at that.
I can see absolutely no positive case for amateurs continuing to make footballing decisions at the club who already have a professional reputation that is lower than a snake’s arse. I also found the choice not to name Gus’ immediate line manager strange. Where exactly does that decision fit into the ‘open, honest and transparent’ policy we were pitched? Taking the current state of affairs at face value, and giving MCT the benefit of the doubt, it is poor decision making that I’d label as ‘penny wise and pound foolish’. Ineffective football decision making at board level will hinder the club’s results, reputation and therefore engagement and ultimately finances. If you were to take a more cynical look at the current set-up, it would appear that we have a director who simply wants to play Dougie Rae on our money, whilst lurking in the shadows to avoid any potential repercussions.  
Neither of those scenarios are acceptable, and both could quite easily have disastrous consequences. 
 

[TopCat]

 

3 hours ago, LargsTON said:

The sooner this whole fan ownership nonsense is fired into the sun the better for everyone.  By all means use MCT as a vehicle to supplement wages and boost the playing budget but we simply don't have the numbers required to make us anything other than a tinpot outfit for the rest of what may well be our short history.  It beggars belief how anyone could think this set up would work in the first place with less than 1000 contributors.  Dunfermline have 3000 and are hardly riding the crest of a wave.  Advertise for new owners, investors, whatever....who cares.  Just anything but MCT.  

Ownership aside - we're not in a position to compete financially with the likes of Dunfermline - they're a bigger club with a bigger fanbase and a more expensive playing squad. Their underperformance is down to their tinpot management setup making a mess of the budget they have.

Unless some idiot with a penchant for frittering money like early-years Dougie Rae turns up at our door then that financial gap isn't going to close. Even then, a big chunk of Rae's stewardship was an outright disaster, there's no reason to expect success from someone new.

We're already a tinpot outfit because we're a Championship club with a core of 1800 fans and a diminishing pool of potential new supporters. The best we can realistically expect from MCT or a new owner is a marginal improvement on that. There's no point doom mongering just because you don't like that situation.

[LargsTON]

57 minutes ago, TopCat said:

 

Ownership aside - we're not in a position to compete financially with the likes of Dunfermline - they're a bigger club with a bigger fanbase and a more expensive playing squad. Their underperformance is down to their tinpot management setup making a mess of the budget they have.

Unless some idiot with a penchant for frittering money like early-years Dougie Rae turns up at our door then that financial gap isn't going to close. Even then, a big chunk of Rae's stewardship was an outright disaster, there's no reason to expect success from someone new.

We're already a tinpot outfit because we're a Championship club with a core of 1800 fans and a diminishing pool of potential new supporters. The best we can realistically expect from MCT or a new owner is a marginal improvement on that. There's no point doom mongering just because you don't like that situation.

Sorry but I can't accept that nonsense at all when I see clubs of similar or lesser stature leaving us in their shadow both on and off the park.  Morton fans are almost conditioned to accept our fate and where our standing in Scottish football lies.  Thats through decades of mismanagement at every level of the club.  It's a sad state of affairs.  Morton isn't a lost cause by any means but it requires more than MCT to give the club the seismic shake up it needs to finally progress to a more realistic level.  We're certainly better than an annual relegation battle in the championship but under the current model that will indeed be our ceiling.   It doesn't need a sugar Daddy, there's massive prize money in the championship now but that's somehow been forgotten.  We just need strong leadership which we've never had in the three decades I've followed the club which is a crying shame.

 

[port-ton]

Did Dunfermline supporters not sell the club or a big chunk of it to German investors? They definitely have investment beyond their community funding which makes their season even more hilarious. 

[LargsTON]

5 minutes ago, port-ton said:

Did Dunfermline supporters not sell the club or a big chunk of it to German investors? They definitely have investment beyond their community funding which makes their season even more hilarious. 

If that's true they must be run by the local knitting bee.

[TaunTon]

8 minutes ago, LargsTON said:

  Morton fans are almost conditioned to accept our fate and where our standing in Scottish football lies.  Thats through decades of mismanagement at every level of the club.  It's a sad state of affairs.  Morton isn't a lost cause by any means but it requires more than MCT to give the club the seismic shake up it needs to finally progress to a more realistic level.  We're certainly better than an annual relegation battle in the championship but under the current model that will indeed be our ceiling.   It doesn't need a sugar Daddy, there's massive prize money in the championship now but that's somehow been forgotten.  We just need strong leadership which we've never had in the three decades I've followed the club which is a crying shame.

 

I've always disagreed with your take on MCT but I fully endorse the above. We can improve if we have the ambition, a degree of bravery and leadership. At the moment we seemed to be paralyzed by fear of failure. 

[LargsTON]

Look at St Johnstone.  A core support of around 2500 even now yet double cup winners last season and regularly punching levels above themselves.  The only advantage they've had over us - albeit major - was McDiarmid park effectively being handed to them.  In that respect a lot of our current problems can be traced all the way back to John Wilson who had control of the club at a time when we had football grants available and a conveyor belt of talent being sold for substantial amounts; which brings me back to my original statement, we've been grossly mismanaged for decades.

Edited October 29, 2021 by LargsTON

[Cet Homme Charmant]

5 hours ago, LargsTON said:

The sooner this whole fan ownership nonsense is fired into the sun the better for everyone.  By all means use MCT as a vehicle to supplement wages and boost the playing budget but we simply don't have the numbers required to make us anything other than a tinpot outfit for the rest of what may well be our short history.  It beggars belief how anyone could think this set up would work in the first place with less than 1000 contributors.  Dunfermline have 3000 and are hardly riding the crest of a wave.  Advertise for new owners, investors, whatever....who cares.  Just anything but MCT.  

Sadly starting to come round to that way of thinking myself. I can't stop myself from wondering what the other offer that Crawford knocked back in favour of MCT was, and if they'd still be interested.

[TopCat]

21 minutes ago, LargsTON said:

Look at St Johnstone.  A core support of around 2500 even now yet double cup winners last season and regularly punching levels above themselves.  The only advantage they've had over us - albeit major - was McDiarmid park effectively being handed to them.  In that respect a lot of our current problems can be traced all the way back to John Wilson who had control of the club at a time when we had football grants available and a conveyor belt of talent being sold for substantial amounts; which brings me back to my original statement, we've been grossly mismanaged for decades.

Gradual improvement under MCT is the only show in town. Being raging about 30 years worth of our useless chairmen and Morton's rightful place is old-man-shakes-fist-at-cloud stuff. We've only just managed to slither out from under the last useless regime and their massive pile of debt. 

MCT might turn out to be a total disaster (and the signs so far aren't exactly inspiring) but sitting hopefully waiting for a new ultra-competent owner to pop out of the woodwork is speculative birthday card pish.

[LargsTON]

52 minutes ago, TopCat said:

Gradual improvement under MCT is the only show in town. Being raging about 30 years worth of our useless chairmen and Morton's rightful place is old-man-shakes-fist-at-cloud stuff. We've only just managed to slither out from under the last useless regime and their massive pile of debt. 

MCT might turn out to be a total disaster (and the signs so far aren't exactly inspiring) but sitting hopefully waiting for a new ultra-competent owner to pop out of the woodwork is speculative birthday card pish.

All you're doing is reinforcing what I'm saying about large swathes of our fanbase simply accepting our fate.   There won't be any gradual improvement under MCT, only managed decline.

Raging is stretching it a bit, I'm too apathetic to be raging.   I rarely even visit this forum anymore, I was only compelled to post when I listened to that pitiful Q&A. I've been to one game all season and I've no idea when I'll return, that's a position I never thought I'd find myself in as a hardcore supporter who up until recent seasons rarely missed a game home or away.  Tbh it saddens me to feel this way but I'm not prepared to endorse the current farce by contributing financially where the club can't even be arsed getting the basics right.  I'd rather spend time with my daughter on a Saturday than show blind faith based on the promise of jam tomorrow.  Some other mug can take the baton off me in that respect.  You shriek about ultra-competent owners?  I'm not asking for that at all but just for once in 34 years id like us simply to be run with a basic degree of competence and take it from there.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by LargsTON

[LargsTON]

1 hour ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Sadly starting to come round to that way of thinking myself. I can't stop myself from wondering what the other offer that Crawford knocked back in favour of MCT was, and if they'd still be interested.

I was told what that offer was recently and we've dodged a bullet.   Morton would suddenly become a far more attractive proposition to buyers if MCT was there as a vehicle to boost the playing budget and supplement wages every season going forward.  I'd be all for that but outright ownership at our level?  It's madness as we're currently realising as the days and weeks go by.   

[vikingTON]

If MCT were being run as a scheme to supplement wages only, then I for one would be out. That's what a season ticket, prize money and commercial revenue is for - an extra guilt trip fund is taking the piss. Now that we've removed the previous owners, the purpose of MCT funds should be to give the club capital investment to bring it at least fucking close to the 21st century.

I'd be content for up to half the club to be open to investment and as an incentive to gain genuine outside expertise, but selling outright when we've just secured our only asset would be a recipe for disaster. 

We don't actually face this binary choice right now though. If fucking Arbroath can waltz their way past us on the pitch, then we are in fact doing something very wrong with the resources that we already have. Going for 'stability' was the wrong call because it meant accepting more of the same utter shite that summed up last season's nick of a display, only with fans at the game to get raging about it. This was pointed out all along, and now here we are and it's not even Halloween yet. 

If we are poorly led then the solution is to force obvious change through pressure on matchdays (i.e. the manager situation) and remove those responsible for crap decisions when they come up for election down the line. Cards should be well and truly marked. 

We should of course have started that process with the Finance Director, who was happy to insist that getting Alan Moore to fund his own Ryanair trip to scout a Slovak pub-league for players would not end in disaster because his account books said so. When you allow that level of 'football insight' in the room and present club policy, you are asking for trouble from the start.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by vikingTON

[LargsTON]

1 hour ago, vikingTON said:

If MCT were being run as a scheme to supplement wages only, then I for one would be out. That's what a season ticket, prize money and commercial revenue is for - an extra guilt trip fund is taking the piss. Now that we've removed the previous owners, the purpose of MCT funds should be to give the club capital investment to bring it at least fucking close to the 21st century.

I'd be content for up to half the club to be open to investment and as an incentive to gain genuine outside expertise, but selling outright when we've just secured our only asset would be a recipe for disaster. 

We don't actually face this binary choice right now though. If fucking Arbroath can waltz their way past us on the pitch, then we are in fact doing something very wrong with the resources that we already have. Going for 'stability' was the wrong call because it meant accepting more of the same utter shite that summed up last season's nick of a display, only with fans at the game to get raging about it. This was pointed out all along, and now here we are and it's not even Halloween yet. 

If we are poorly led then the solution is to force obvious change through pressure on matchdays (i.e. the manager situation) and remove those responsible for crap decisions when they come up for election down the line. Cards should be well and truly marked. 

We should of course have started that process with the Finance Director, who was happy to insist that getting Alan Moore to fund his own Ryanair trip to scout a Slovak pub-league for players would not end in disaster because his account books said so. When you allow that level of 'football insight' in the room and present club policy, you are asking for trouble from the start.  

Why?  At the moment your contribution to MCT is money down the drain.  At least if we had competent owners running the club you'd almost certainly see your money produce a far more successful team on the park if it went solely towards the playing budget.  I'd be on board with that and maybe I'm off the mark but I'd suggest many more would be in the same boat.

The reason Arbroath are waltzing past us is because we have absolute Muppets trying to run the show on the back of 800 subscribers to this disastrous model.  We also have no wriggle room to enforce change as we'll be perched on a continual financial precipice under MCT.  I know this was also the case under Rae but it doesn't have to be the case going forward.

We'll revisit this chat in a year when we're treading water in league one for now I'm out.

Edited October 29, 2021 by LargsTON

[vikingTON]

8 minutes ago, LargsTON said:

Why?  At the moment your contribution to MCT is money down the drain. 

I signed up to the MCT scheme for the sole purpose of building a stake to gradually huckle the Raes out the door - not to fund a first team shortfall - and it turned out that it was the mechanism to get them out within two years. I'm delighted with the outcome of that investment so far. Much of the hard work should have begun this summer, but instead we didn't bother our arse and settled for 'stability' instead. 

"At least if we had competent owners running the club you'd almost certainly see your money produce a far more successful team on the park if it went solely towards the playing budget.  I'd be on board with that and maybe I'm off the mark but I'd suggest many more would be in the same boat."

If the owners of the football club were competent, then they wouldn't need a guilt trip fund to finance a competitive first team budget in the first place. 

"The reason Arbroath are waltzing past us is because we have absolute Muppets trying to run the show on the back of 800 subscribers to this disastrous model."

Well no, last time I checked we also still had season ticket holders, gate revenue, commercial revenue and prize money to run the show - as well as a chunk of ridiculous taxpayers' money chucked at clubs last season. Having 800 subscribers on top of that is not less than the club's original resources, it is more. To treat it as a top-up to fund haddies like Muirhead is a waste of time. 

"We'll revisit this chat in a year when we're treading water in league one for now I'm out."

If we were in League One now instead of gormlessly celebrating 'survival' and 'stability' last season then at least we'd already be clearing the decks at the club. Instead we have pointlessly delayed the inevitable. 

 

 

 

[irnbru]

The biggest problem for me is shown by people criticising the current board but that's a self made problem by MCT. 

They should really be pushing the fact its a community owned organisation and have mechanisms in place so that the members have an input or at least get a quick route to answers for questions. 

At the moment there's a real us and them feel to the whole thing with people on here clearly not sold on the idea as a whole. If these mechanisms and the shared ownership idea were the main selling points from the beginning then I think there would be more good will. There's absolutely no reason this couldn't have been done. 

As it stands its been left to the SLO to organise a Q&A so unless you're bought into the idea of fan ownership then you're not going to think there's much benefit as a member as your opinion doesn't really matter and there's no route to get answers. 

Personally, I think fan ownership is the only option we have as there's not many millionaires out there that want a club as a plaything and there's not much money to be made for investors at our level. I can see why people aren't behind it with the way things are just now though. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by irnbru

[capitanus]

On 10/28/2021 at 7:17 PM, Jamie_M said:

 

Dear God, where do I start....

[Mr.Blue]

16 hours ago, LargsTON said:

Sorry but I can't accept that nonsense at all when I see clubs of similar or lesser stature leaving us in their shadow both on and off the park.  Morton fans are almost conditioned to accept our fate and where our standing in Scottish football lies.  Thats through decades of mismanagement at every level of the club.  It's a sad state of affairs.  Morton isn't a lost cause by any means but it requires more than MCT to give the club the seismic shake up it needs to finally progress to a more realistic level.  We're certainly better than an annual relegation battle in the championship but under the current model that will indeed be our ceiling.   It doesn't need a sugar Daddy, there's massive prize money in the championship now but that's somehow been forgotten.  We just need strong leadership which we've never had in the three decades I've followed the club which is a crying shame.

 

This.

So called 'smaller' clubs have been out performing us for years. The latest example being Arbroath. Our predicament which has went on for as long as I can remember is down to poor leadership and decision making. For so long there has been no long term vision or plan at all and I'm not even entirely sure there's one now but if there is there's a lot of work to be done to even begin.