Malt Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I don't understand how they come up with this? We have been consistently top of our pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I don't understand how they come up with this? We have been consistently top of our pile. It's based on criteria so you've got to have 6 full time coaches to be elite for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 It's based on criteria so you've got to have 6 full time coaches to be elite for example. Is it not more than just about having 6 full-time coaches? I thought St Mirren and Dundee Utd missed out because of a lack of other factors including suitable indoor facilities. People keep missing the point about development football - - it is not about winning, it is about development. The benchmark for success is how many are brought through into professional football rather than winning meaningless titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 https://gmfc.net/2017/11/15/warren-hawke-project-brave-statement/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Joke. The whole Project brave is a shambles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Hasn't existed for more than 5 years, therefore can't meet some of the criteria... ELITE RANGERS....... TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Ayr United are the level above us. Ayr United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 I don't understand how they come up with this? We have been consistently top of our pile. No we haven't, and even if we had, winning the league isn't the key measure, because you could just fill your team with senior ringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Well, I would argue our players 3 out the last 4 seasons have found the Division we are in to be not all that challenging and their development is being pulled back as they couldn't test themselves against better players. The entire thing is a joke. Bring back the reserve leagues. How many players did Celtic develop for their Top Team squad? They just loan them all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Elite Progressive Performance I'm stuck on these names. It's like those people who are insulting you but think they're being nice - it's all the more annoying for it's pretence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Project Brave heading for the belly flop like all the rest before. TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Well, I would argue our players 3 out the last 4 seasons have found the Division we are in to be not all that challenging and their development is being pulled back as they couldn't test themselves against better players. The entire thing is a joke. Bring back the reserve leagues. How many players did Celtic develop for their Top Team squad? They just loan them all out. As Hawke's statement says, we have a pretty good standard of youth XI that can play midweek games against good outfits. In the meantime, when we stop drawing with East Kilbride youths and start winning every game, I'll agree that there is no value to playing against them. I do sympathize with the club and I think there's been a lack of transparency* about Project Brave, and anything that uses off-pitch measures to decide placements is always going to be controversial, but at the same time Morton don't have a divine right to just rock up into any section they want. *On this subject. Hawke says the club wasn't "informed" of the MPO league table. MPO has been part of Brave since its inception. It's always placed a great premium on providing players to senior football and international football. That's what it's for. To not be told of a club's placement is hardly damning of the SFA since you can figure it out yourself, and yes, it does to an extent punish clubs who've only just started youth systems, because it wants to benefit those clubs that have made lasting and meaningful investments in youth. In time, Morton can become one of those, but I don't see anything especially wrong in giving priority to clubs who've been at this for years. Warren and other people on the board have an attitude that because they've been super thuper serial about youth for a fortnight, they can now sit at the big boys' table. The people running the game disagree with this, as is their right. We should probably take them at their word rather than just affect shock and outrage that they're judging clubs by the standards they have put forward both in public and private for over a year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Total shambles, really stifling the development of players. Will it always be 8-8 in the top two leagues? e.g. if we were to buy the port Juniors ground and make it our Academy with 6 Full time coaches, does that mean we qualify? Teams will end up registering players as FT player coaches to beat the system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Total shambles, really stifling the development of players. Will it always be 8-8 in the top two leagues? e.g. if we were to buy the port Juniors ground and make it our Academy with 6 Full time coaches, does that mean we qualify? Teams will end up registering players as FT player coaches to beat the system! Imagine that, better facilities and more coaches mean higher placings. You'd never find a full-time player also coaching at a club like Morton, that's for sure. The only reason anyone would ever do that is to beat the system, not because it makes a massive amount of sense. For the record here are the clubs in the second tier: Ayr Dundee United Forth Valley (the three Falkirk-area clubs) Inverness Partick Ross County St Mirren St Johnstone (It's pretty funny that Forth Valley, which the SFA effectively founded, didn't make the top flight.) We're appealing to get into the second tier, County are appealing to get into the top tier, so it could still change. But I have to admit, I look at the list of clubs above and I don't immediately think "oh we're a MILLION times better than them at youth" about any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 We don't seem to be very good at doing due diligence before we dive into projects. Derek and Warren should have known about the judging criteria - blaming others for your own failings is a recurring theme at Morton. I have no idea where Morton deserve to be placed but I do know as the new kids on the block we are not entitled to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 From what I can see 3-4 clubs ended up lower on the totem pole than anticipated and Morton is one of them. Ross County is another (see today's Daily Record for an interview with Roy McGregor about this), Dundee was another (they completely phoned in their attempt at compliance and thus ended up with us.) Again, there is every chance our appeal will succeed, and if not, the rankings are revisited every summer, but despite all the good work done by Morton I just don't see this as some massive injustice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 From what I can see 3-4 clubs ended up lower on the totem pole than anticipated and Morton is one of them. Ross County is another (see today's Daily Record for an interview with Roy McGregor about this), Dundee was another (they completely phoned in their attempt at compliance and thus ended up with us.) Again, there is every chance our appeal will succeed, and if not, the rankings are revisited every summer, but despite all the good work done by Morton I just don't see this as some massive injustice. Even if there is injustice, it's still a tangible amount of progress from what we had a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 We don't seem to be very good at doing due diligence before we dive into projects. Derek and Warren should have known about the judging criteria - blaming others for your own failings is a recurring theme at Morton. I have no idea where Morton deserve to be placed but I do know as the new kids on the block we are not entitled to anything. Entitlement is the thing that gets right on my tits about this though. We may not be entitled to anything, but for all Morton haven't made the grade, we've not exactly been given a fair hand when you see the likes of Ross County getting a big f*ck off youth academy dumped on their doorstep whilst Rangers can keep up the pretence of being a continuation of a club that's six foot under and waltz in to the highest level. I must admit I had a wry smile when I saw Ross County aren't in the elite group, but this doesn't even pretend to be a level playing field. I've said for years now that the closed shop the is the Development League is basically corrupt- this seems to be taking it a step further and is stifling not only the development of our young players, but the development of our club as a whole. It's shameful that these teams' status isn't decided by winning football matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Entitlement is the thing that gets right on my tits about this though. We may not be entitled to anything, but for all Morton haven't made the grade, we've not exactly been given a fair hand when you see the likes of Ross County getting a big f*ck off youth academy dumped on their doorstep whilst Rangers can keep up the pretence of being a continuation of a club that's six foot under and waltz in to the highest level. I must admit I had a wry smile when I saw Ross County aren't in the elite group, but this doesn't even pretend to be a level playing field. I've said for years now that the closed shop the is the Development League is basically corrupt- this seems to be taking it a step further and is stifling not only the development of our young players, but the development of our club as a whole. It's shameful that these teams' status isn't decided by winning football matches. But why should it be? Surely the aim of youth football at the professional level (as opposed to amateur etc) is to develop professional players at as high a level as possible? This being the case, only a tiny minority of players will ever make the grade, and it will very often be ones who didn't have stellar youth careers. And, again, if it was decided by winning matches, we've won our league on one occasion out of three (about to be one out of four, since we're not going to win it this season). There are, as cotter has related, many reasons for this, including our playing plenty of lads significantly below the age limit, but the point remains. On the first point, Hamilton and especially Motherwell have tons of competition locally, received little by way of handouts in the way that Falkirk and County did, yet both find themselves in the top flight. I'm not saying the system is perfect but IMO a lot of the complaining is sour grapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Even if there is injustice, it's still a tangible amount of progress from what we had a couple of years ago. I'm glad the club is making progress in its youth development. I don't agree that we've been especially hard-done-by. We are right on the cusp of the second level and if our appeal succeeds obviously that's great, but in my opinion it's a coin toss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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