Development Squad Thread

[HamCam]

Entitlement is the thing that gets right on my tits about this though. We may not be entitled to anything, but for all Morton haven't made the grade, we've not exactly been given a fair hand when you see the likes of Ross County getting a big f*ck off youth academy dumped on their doorstep whilst Rangers can keep up the pretence of being a continuation of a club that's six foot under and waltz in to the highest level.

 

I must admit I had a wry smile when I saw Ross County aren't in the elite group, but this doesn't even pretend to be a level playing field. I've said for years now that the closed shop the is the Development League is basically corrupt- this seems to be taking it a step further and is stifling not only the development of our young players, but the development of our club as a whole.

 

It's shameful that these teams' status isn't decided by winning football matches.

 

I agree that some clubs seem to be judged on more relaxed criteria but I still fail to understand why we were ignorant of the rules.

 

I don't though agree about winning being the benchmark. Winning what is effectively youth games is not what is important, it is about player development. 

[Toby]

But why should it be? Surely the aim of youth football at the professional level (as opposed to amateur etc) is to develop professional players at as high a level as possible? This being the case, only a tiny minority of players will ever make the grade, and it will very often be ones who didn't have stellar youth careers. And, again, if it was decided by winning matches, we've won our league on one occasion out of three (about to be one out of four, since we're not going to win it this season). There are, as cotter has related, many reasons for this, including our playing plenty of lads significantly below the age limit, but the point remains.

 

On the first point, Hamilton and especially Motherwell have tons of competition locally, received little by way of handouts in the way that Falkirk and County did, yet both find themselves in the top flight.

 

I'm not saying the system is perfect but IMO a lot of the complaining is sour grapes.

 

You're probably correct that we're at the right level given that we've only won the West League once, but the whole principle of sport should be that if successful you move onto the next level. Not by ticking boxes in an audit, especially when the governing body and it's associates are putting these facilities basically on site for some clubs (and remember the new facility at Ravenscraig will no doubt be a help to Hamilton and Motherwell, like the Oriam is to Hearts and Hibs).

 

I'd also add that I've been consistent in my complaints about the way some clubs get preferential treatment for the funding of stadia/youth academies and of the lack of promotion opportunities from the East/West Developments leagues to the top division for a few years now, so refute the point that my own views are sour grapes about where we've wound up in this new set up.

[TRVMP]

You're probably correct that we're at the right level given that we've only won the West League once, but the whole principle of sport should be that if successful you move onto the next level. Not by ticking boxes in an audit, especially when the governing body and it's associates are putting these facilities basically on site for some clubs (and remember the new facility at Ravenscraig will no doubt be a help to Hamilton and Motherwell, like the Oriam is to Hearts and Hibs).

 

I'd also add that I've been consistent in my complaints about the way some clubs get preferential treatment for the funding of stadia/youth academies and of the lack of promotion opportunities from the East/West Developments leagues to the top division for a few years now, so refute the point that my own views are sour grapes about where we've wound up in this new set up.

 

To be clear I don't think you personally have any sour grapes, but the clubs, particulary County, do.

 

It's very true that some clubs are advantaged by the facilities near to them, but it's not the full story, because if it was then County and Forth Valley wouldn't be in the second level... also Airdrie and I *think* Albion Rovers share Ravenscraig as well. I could well be wrong on this but I don't think that Kilmarnock have much by way of facilites near them but they're still at the top level.

 

Morton do struggle with their location and lack of investment, that is clear, and it's to the club's credit that they keep working on this regardless.

[HamCam]

You're probably correct that we're at the right level given that we've only won the West League once, but the whole principle of sport should be that if successful you move onto the next level. Not by ticking boxes in an audit, especially when the governing body and it's associates are putting these facilities basically on site for some clubs (and remember the new facility at Ravenscraig will no doubt be a help to Hamilton and Motherwell, like the Oriam is to Hearts and Hibs).

 

I'd also add that I've been consistent in my complaints about the way some clubs get preferential treatment for the funding of stadia/youth academies and of the lack of promotion opportunities from the East/West Developments leagues to the top division for a few years now, so refute the point that my own views are sour grapes about where we've wound up in this new set up.

 

The provision of infrastructure is undeniably an issue unless you are located in and around Edinburgh and Glasgow. The onus though is then on other clubs to work together to get facilities that can be shared and not just by football interests. 

[vikingTON]

Even if there is injustice, it's still a tangible amount of progress from what we had a couple of years ago.

Being in the youth equivalent of the seaside leagues doesn't represent "progress" - it represents a dead end. If sixteen or more clubs have access to an objectively better and more prestigious youth setup within the shallow pool of youth footballers in Scottish football, then it stands to reason that GMFC cannot seriously look to youth development in order to achieve tangible success - first team success - down the road. With third rate youths you'll get a third rate team.

 

I've no idea why any club officials are shocked: it was clear from 18 months of press coverage - and common sense - that Morton weren't going to be anointed as a Scottish La Masia.

 

Perhaps Project Brave is the reality check that all those involved at or in cooperation with GMFC on this topic need. When this once-proud club typically made waves in the past, it did so through innovation - not copying programs at dozens of other clubs. The latter offers no competitive advantage: whereas Morton discovering the Scandinavian market in the 60s - and the Finnish duo in the 90s - were game-changers for the club.

 

There is (Brexit terms permitting) a single market of tens of thousands of professional footballers across Europe. Many of which are on far lower wages than Scottish second tier journeymen and could do a better job on the park. The club should be putting a modest scouting network in place to take advantage of that genuine opportunity. Its youth setup was formed too late, isn't good enough and therefore offers no such chance of making the difference.

[TRVMP]

I'm not convinced there are lots of players out there on worse wages than the Scottish second tier, tbh. I have some knowledge of, for example, Polish and Greek lower leagues and there are plenty of guys there on very, very healthy wages, considering they play in front of two men and a dog and the cost of living is much lower.

[vikingTON]

You're probably correct that we're at the right level given that we've only won the West League once, but the whole principle of sport should be that if successful you move onto the next level. Not by ticking boxes in an audit, especially when the governing body and it's associates are putting these facilities basically on site for some clubs (and remember the new facility at Ravenscraig will no doubt be a help to Hamilton and Motherwell, like the Oriam is to Hearts and Hibs).

 

I'd also add that I've been consistent in my complaints about the way some clubs get preferential treatment for the funding of stadia/youth academies and of the lack of promotion opportunities from the East/West Developments leagues to the top division for a few years now, so refute the point that my own views are sour grapes about where we've wound up in this new set up.

The current chief purpose of Scottish youth development is to produce better 'elite level' players for the likes of Hamish Husband and yourself's Tartan Army jollies/horsings in Trnava, Tblisi etc. The sporting principle therefore rightly doesn't apply in the youth leagues: policy links player development with facilities rather than short-term measures such as results on the pitch. Project Brave is simply a natural extension of that policy. It's the SFA that doesn't want youth players rotting at third-rate efforts like Morton and dozens of other setups, because that won't produce enough good players at international level.

 

Scottish football clubs can either tell the SFA and the Tartan Army to get back in their box and take control of youth development policy for the purpose of the domestic game, or a closed shop system of elite academies (and by extension clubs) is the only other logical outcome.

[cotter]

This project brave has nothing to do with our under 20s. It the age groups from under 11 to under 17 that they are dealing with.

That is the levels that Warren was talking about competing in midweek games. We play against premier league clubs every 2nd week at under 16s and consistently get results. I've watched us st battery park this season beat st Mirren, st Johnstone, rangers and Celtic. And also draw with Kilmarnock . And putt 6 past Patrick thistle.

Below under 20 level we are as good as anyone and better than a few in league above. For example

Celtic 2-4 Morton

Ayr 0- 9 Celtic.

But according to sfa we are worse than Ayr?!!

[TRVMP]

This project brave has nothing to do with our under 20s. It the age groups from under 11 to under 17 that they are dealing with.

That is the levels that Warren was talking about competing in midweek games. We play against premier league clubs every 2nd week at under 16s and consistently get results. I've watched us st battery park this season beat st Mirren, st Johnstone, rangers and Celtic. And also draw with Kilmarnock . And putt 6 past Patrick thistle.

Below under 20 level we are as good as anyone and better than a few in league above. For example

Celtic 2-4 Morton

Ayr 0- 9 Celtic.

But according to sea we are worse than Ayr?!!

 

Good to know, but isn't it also based on facilities and not just results?

[vikingTON]

This project brave has nothing to do with our under 20s. It the age groups from under 11 to under 17 that they are dealing with.

That is the levels that Warren was talking about competing in midweek games. We play against premier league clubs every 2nd week at under 16s and consistently get results. I've watched us st battery park this season beat st Mirren, st Johnstone, rangers and Celtic. And also draw with Kilmarnock . And putt 6 past Patrick thistle.

Below under 20 level we are as good as anyone and better than a few in league above. For example

Celtic 2-4 Morton

Ayr 0- 9 Celtic.

But according to sea we are worse than Ayr?!!

The Under 20s quite clearly aren't as good as Queen of the South: that's why they're current champions at that level and Morton are not. It's almost as if accumulated results over a league campaign offer a better measurement of ability than cherry-picked results in cup competitions.

 

Queen of the South can only be taking their setback from Project Brave with more dignity than Morton's tears and snotters though.

[cotter]

I say again. Maybe it's hard for you to understand. The under 20s set up has nothing to do with project brave placing.

It's based on youth academy from 11s to 17s.

And where exactly have I cherry picked results from a cup competition?

[cotter]

And also queen of the South never made any attempt to get into the top 2 tiers of the project brave academy system. Maybe that's why they're not moaning pal

[cotter]

Game v queen of the South at cappielow tonight 7.30

[Alibi]

Hasn't existed for more than 5 years, therefore can't meet some of the criteria...

 

 

ELITE

RANGERS.......

I hope the appeal mentions that Rangers don't qualify, on grounds of insufficient longevity...

[cotter]

Morton 1-1 queen of the South

Decent game. Both teams played some good stuff. Queens goal was an absolute worldy. Fantastic strike from the boy. Morton levelled in last minute after a good spell of pressure.

Best for us were centre backs Durham and Docherty who defended well. Ben Armour worked hard and was always a threat.

McGowan was superb though. 3 or 4 excellent saves and looked good dealing with crosses .He seems to be benefiting from his loan move

[ayrstorm]

this link popped up on my fb feed as an Ayr United supporting friend liked it - makes an interesting read to compare to the morton statement. Like it or not, it has facts and can understand where they are at (had applied for elite, and met 73 of 75 criteria).Also explains what Progressive means from a fixture point of view for them.

How many of the 75 criteria were also applicable for Progressive and how many did Warren think we met and so should not be in performance but should be in Progressive. At which stage is the target Elite? 

http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/project-brave-statement/

[cmdc]

this link popped up on my fb feed as an Ayr United supporting friend liked it - makes an interesting read to compare to the morton statement. Like it or not, it has facts and can understand where they are at (had applied for elite, and met 73 of 75 criteria).Also explains what Progressive means from a fixture point of view for them.

How many of the 75 criteria were also applicable for Progressive and how many did Warren think we met and so should not be in performance but should be in Progressive. At which stage is the target Elite?

 

http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/project-brave-statement/

I doubt we will seriously target elite because the cost probably outweighs the benefit (see Partick’s statement today on why they applied only for the second tier).

[cotter]

It's st Mirren at cappielow today. I was sure it was a 2pm ko but just been told it's 12. Anyone confirm?

[Mr Toon]

It's st Mirren at cappielow today. I was sure it was a 2pm ko but just been told it's 12. Anyone confirm?

The Morton Twitter feed says 12 noon.

[cotter]

Just seen that cheers. I think I'll head down to it