Pedrodelawasp Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I'm going to guess he's missed playing and reckons he's got a good year or two left in him, so has moved on to play. Going to a part time team may well suit him if he also wants to pursue further coaching badges before he retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed de Ball Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Most full-time footballers aren't working down a uranium mine days before signing for a club: the lifestyle that they have been used to since a very young age remains in place. Even some part-time players making the step up to full time training (Gaston for example) can continue working on the side. It states that it isn't a 9-5 role, but also specifies that it is a 35 hour per week role. The workload is therefore much higher for comparable wages to what an established senior player gets at this level. It is certainly viewed as an entry role into management within the Scottish game, but there's no good reason why that should be considered an acceptable career path. Those who wish to have a career in football management should start by actually managing a first team squad, rather than coaching youth players at a big team: there are plenty of crap teams in the Juniors and diddy non-leagues that would be more than willing to give them a shot. There they can gain experience of building a team for themselves, man management etc. and begin their progression up the levels of the Scottish game, if they are good enough to do so. If GMFC were operating a credible youth structure then they'd try to flush out candidates who plan to use it as a shortcut into league management during the selection process. Just as well that Morton's youth structure has been objectively assessed and placed in the third tier of the Scottish game alongside minnows then! You clearly have no idea how a job specification, personal specification and competence based selection process requiring evidenced examples actually works. Aspiring coaches should routinely start by managing a first team squad eh, thank fek we have Warren and not you as CEO and that’s not saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I can only imagine Barr has another role somewhere and is complementing this with extending his playing career in the lower leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deego Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Naebody knows apart from Barr and the people he's told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Naebody knows apart from Barr and the people he's told. You're so wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 You clearly have no idea how a job specification, personal specification and competence based selection process requiring evidenced examples actually works. Aspiring coaches should routinely start by managing a first team squad eh, thank fek we have Warren and not you as CEO and that’s not saying much. An 'aspiring coach', if suitably qualified, can begin his career coaching a youth team; an 'aspiring manager' shouldn't be doing so. Because coaching youth players and managing a first team involve two different skill sets. If a successful coach wants to move over to management then he should begin at a suitable rung of the non leagues: as the likes of Weatherson did at Shettleston or Ross Tokely has done at Brora. And if GMFC wish to avoid having to start another recruitment process in six or eighteen months time, then they should be weeding out chancer candidates to find someone genuinely committed to youth development rather than snaking into a manager's job. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 What Hawke said there about Barr doesn’t read to me like a pre-requisite/strategy as much as a bonus that might have helped Barr to stand out against other candidates. I can’t imagine they did then or would now restrict the field of appointable applicants to ex-internationals still able to play in the team. Yeah, so either it's not ten times better to have such an old head around, or it is but it's too much like hard work to find someone who fits the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 An 'aspiring coach', if suitably qualified, can begin his career coaching a youth team; an 'aspiring manager' shouldn't be doing so. Because coaching youth players and managing a first team involve two different skill sets. If a successful coach wants to move over to management then he should begin at a suitable rung of the non leagues: as the likes of Weatherson did at Shettleston or Ross Tokely has done at Brora. And if GMFC wish to avoid having to start another recruitment process in six or eighteen months time, then they should be weeding out chancer candidates to find someone genuinely committed to youth development rather than snaking into a manager's job. If we can get a coach for a year or so that's good enough to move on to a big team then I don't see the issue as we're getting the benefit of them for that time. As with the first team players, I'd be disappointed if staff weren't ambitious and want to make it at a higher level - that's part of the territory with being a smaller club. That said, there will be people who can do a good job and would be happy with their lot but I don't think there's any reason to look at one type of person or the other. Yeah, so either it's not ten times better to have such an old head around, or it is but it's too much like hard work to find someone who fits the bill. It's could be a benefit but then so could having years of coaching experience and a sports science degree for example. It's all about finding the best person for the job at that particular time - everyone had strengths and weaknesses that will be factored into an appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 He didn't move on to a big team. He moved on to Stirling Albion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 He didn't move on to a big team. He moved on to Stirling Albion. That was in broad terms. The main thing is hiring the best person for the job at that time - people will always come and go in jobs so I really don't see any issue here especially as we're already recruiting for a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I think vT's point (which is correct) is that the overwhelming majority of youth coaches on the planet never have a career in senior management and are instead usually specialized youth coaches. In some cases they would jump at the chance of management but will never be given the opportunity, but in most cases it's pretty self-evident that a coach isn't even the same thing as a head coach, much less a manager. There certainly are people who use coaching as a stepping stone to management - or assistant management - Rui Faria started with Jose Mourinho as a fitness coach and is now next to him in the dugout. But to continue the Jose Mourinho example, there are many, many coaches around him at Old Trafford who will never, ever sit at the manager's side of the desk, because that's not the role they're specialized in and not the one they're aiming for. For every Pako Ayestaran there's a dozen Silvino Louros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 That was in broad terms. The main thing is hiring the best person for the job at that time - people will always come and go in jobs so I really don't see any issue here especially as we're already recruiting for a replacement. Right, so Darren Barr doesn't fit the broad terms of what you're talking about. "We lost a supposedly gold-dust youth coach to Stirling Albion, but it's alright because he didn't matter anyway," seems to be the wagon-circling consensus. Coaches do move around all the time. They don't pack in coaching in favor of playing against Edinburgh City all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Right, so Darren Barr doesn't fit the broad terms of what you're talking about. "We lost a supposedly gold-dust youth coach to Stirling Albion, but it's alright because he didn't matter anyway," seems to be the wagon-circling consensus. Coaches do move around all the time. They don't pack in coaching in favor of playing against Edinburgh City all the time. He might have a high paid job out of football, a better opportunity in coaching, issues with family, etc. None of us know his reasons for moving on - it might even be that he was told he could leave.... The point is people move around all the time in jobs but if they make a positive impact in their time and there's a structure for continuity (which there clearly is) then it's not a huge issue if/ when they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 If we can get a coach for a year or so that's good enough to move on to a big team then I don't see the issue as we're getting the benefit of them for that time. As with the first team players, I'd be disappointed if staff weren't ambitious and want to make it at a higher level - that's part of the territory with being a smaller club. If the coach wishes to start youth development coaching here to eventually become a youth coach at a club that isn't in the absolutely gubbins category of Project Brave, good for him. If the coach is using a youth development role here as a stepping stone to manage a first team club (including Morton) then no, his aspirations aren't really aligned with the role, and the snake shouldn't darken the club's door. There is also a significant cost to GMFC in terms of time and resources by having a coach leave and beginning a new recruitment process. You don't have to act like Jim McLean and try to chain your employees to the club for life, but any employer does have a reasonable expectation that whoever it selects will commit to the project for the medium term. Three-five years is not too much to ask. For whatever reason Barr only lasted six months, and that is a failure of recruitment. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Continuity like sacking the idea of having an experienced head in the youth squad after a glorious seven-month run? The strategy is being made up as we go along, which is only acceptable if it's based on A/B testing and continual improvement, rather than fecklessness and excuse-making. Again - we haven't lost a coach to a better job elsewhere, which would be a good testament to progress. We've lost a coach to a playing deal at a low level. There's no reason to pretend this is all part of some great continuity plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The point is people move around all the time in jobs but if they make a positive impact in their time and there's a structure for continuity (which there clearly is) then it's not a huge issue if/ when they do. It is absolutely a huge issue for a competent organisation, if a relatively senior employee walks out the door after just six months and they have to go back to the drawing board to recruit someone else. That's not a routine rate of turnover for a backroom position - least of all one that is central to the club's flagship 'sustainability' exercise. I'd expect even the Morton board or Hawke to be trying to work out why they got things so badly wrong from a recruitment perspective, yet here you are laughably pretending that This Happens All The Time. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Given that Hawke was shouting from the rooftops about the appointment of Barr, the 'he was just another coach' appears to be yet another example of Morton spinning a line to the ever-decreasing masses. Fine if he was moving on up but we are talking about Stirling Albion. Best of luck to him anyway, I hope it works out for him. On the upside, it means Barr is never part of our defensive line - one less reason for skidmarks on a Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The main thing is hiring the best person for the job at that time - people will always come and go in jobs so I really don't see any issue here especially as we're already recruiting for a replacement. Of which one of the key criteria at any organisation would be: is the candidate likely to commit to this task for the medium term, or will they up sticks and leave in a few months time? You wouldn't even get a job stacking shelves in a supermarket without meeting that requirement, never mind get to manage the supposed key to the club's sustainable future. That Barr as a playing-age footballer might not consider his playing career to be completely finished should have been a major issue flagged during the selection process. Whether the club simply didn't consider that risk, received mealy-mouthed assurances or simply 'circumstances changed' doesn't really matter that much: the development squad manager lasted seven months in the post before returning to playing football and so the recruitment process has utterly failed. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotter Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Whether we rated Barr or not I think most people seem to agree the timing of the departure is very strange. Probably more to it that what has been reported by the club. Maybe it was his decision to make and the club decided it was time for him to go? Or was it down to Barr himself. Usual lack of information keeps us guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdc Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Given that Hawke was shouting from the rooftops about the appointment of Barr, the 'he was just another coach' appears to be yet another example of Morton spinning a line to the ever-decreasing masses. Fine if he was moving on up but we are talking about Stirling Albion. Best of luck to him anyway, I hope it works out for him. On the upside, it means Barr is never part of our defensive line - one less reason for skidmarks on a Saturday! I don’t think Morton have spun that line, have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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