Championship 2018-19 Thread

[Hej]

It's worth noting that the moron in question here is the same cunt that snapchatted himself drink driving last year. Quite likely a racist cunt

[TONofmemories]

Or just stupid...

[TONofmemories]

Add to the fact it's a s***e looky looky costume not even wearing a Morton top.

Agreed.

[Hej]

Or just stupid...

 

Why would I give an utter reptile drink driver the benefit of the doubt?

 

He's a cunt. Likely a racist one

[SpoonTon]

My point is, in isolation of Halloween characters and what not, is it really racist?

In the case that I stated earlier, yes, absolutely (he's absolutely a racist and likes that he can make his point in that way). I think much of the time that's the case (in terms of either intention or willful ignorance).

[so72]

It's worth noting that the moron in question here is the same **** that snapchatted himself drink driving last year. Quite likely a racist ****

And been well established that he battered his exs especially the one that leaked the snapchat.

[Cappiecat 1.2]

Blacking up as a 'looky-looky man' for a party is not a jokey social comment. It is a racial stereotype.

Stereotyping is one of the foundations of racism itself.

Halloween is no excuse either, there is no one day green light for racist behaviour.

The guy's a racist c*nt and will be seen as such by all right minded folk.

[Toby]

Blacking up as a 'looky-looky man' for a party is not a jokey social comment. It is a racial stereotype.

Stereotyping is one of the foundations of racism itself.

Halloween is no excuse either, there is no one day green light for racist behaviour.

The guy's a racist c*nt and will be seen as such by all right minded folk.

It’s not something I feel particularly strongly about, but the key word here is “stereotype”.

 

In this instance, whether intended or not, it’s foolish and is definitely a racial stereotype, but the other example I recall was of Antoine Griezmann blacking up when he dressed up as Michael Jordan. It’s not stereotyping in that instance, Michael Jordan is as black as Griezmann is white.

 

Is one okay but the other isn’t? Are both out of order? Are there laws relating to blacking up or are we merely discussing what’s commonly seen as socially and morally acceptable?

[vikingTON]

I don't recall anyone now or at the time claiming that it was okay for Griezmann to do so; nor would I be adopting Basque cultural standards when it comes to racism, what with their weirdo blood nationalism and all.

 

It's really not a difficult moral maze to navigate here tbh. It's 2018 - don't be a complete and utter fanny by blacking up  or you'll get hauled over the coals for it. And if you happen to be a crap Scottish footballer, your punishment will be a career spent at Clyde with the other dregs of society. 

[EanieMeany]

It’s not something I feel particularly strongly about, but the key word here is “stereotype”.

 

In this instance, whether intended or not, it’s foolish and is definitely a racial stereotype, but the other example I recall was of Antoine Griezmann blacking up when he dressed up as Michael Jordan. It’s not stereotyping in that instance, Michael Jordan is as black as Griezmann is white.

 

Is one okay but the other isn’t? Are both out of order? Are there laws relating to blacking up or are we merely discussing what’s commonly seen as socially and morally acceptable?

 

It's not even close to comparable.

 

On the Griezmann one, I think that was down to a genuine naivety and ignorance rather than any sort of attempt to make a joke of it or be in any way demeaning - there's also the fact that Spain is..."behind", shall we say, a lot of other countries when it comes to combating racism, which means the reasons why "blackface" is a problem elsehere don't get the same coverage it would elsewhere. Look at the Three Kings Day parades. It still makes him an idiot for it, but the circumstances and the fact that he apologised for his ignorance immediately gives him the benefit of the doubt.

 

None of those defences even come close to being in play in the instance of the arsehole in question here, nor do I think they would in any cases in Scotland. You'd need to be living under a ****in rock (the standard place of abode for racists, admittedly) not to have missed the fact that blackface isn't acceptable and if you still insist on doing it then you are, at very best, knowingly indulging in a racist act and are most likely an actual racist in general.

[Hej]

It’s not something I feel particularly strongly about, but the key word here is “stereotype”.

 

In this instance, whether intended or not, it’s foolish and is definitely a racial stereotype, but the other example I recall was of Antoine Griezmann blacking up when he dressed up as Michael Jordan. It’s not stereotyping in that instance, Michael Jordan is as black as Griezmann is white.

 

Is one okay but the other isn’t? Are both out of order? Are there laws relating to blacking up or are we merely discussing what’s commonly seen as socially and morally acceptable?

It wasn't Michael Jordan, it was a member of the Harlem Globetrotters. It actually was a stereotype.

[Toby]

It's not even close to comparable.

 

On the Griezmann one, I think that was down to a genuine naivety and ignorance rather than any sort of attempt to make a joke of it or be in any way demeaning - there's also the fact that Spain is..."behind", shall we say, a lot of other countries when it comes to combating racism, which means the reasons why "blackface" is a problem elsehere don't get the same coverage it would elsewhere. Look at the Three Kings Day parades. It still makes him an idiot for it, but the circumstances and the fact that he apologised for his ignorance immediately gives him the benefit of the doubt.

 

None of those defences even come close to being in play in the instance of the arsehole in question here, nor do I think they would in any cases in Scotland. You'd need to be living under a ****in rock (the standard place of abode for racists, admittedly) not to have missed the fact that blackface isn't acceptable and if you still insist on doing it then you are, at very best, knowingly indulging in a racist act and are most likely an actual racist in general.

Can Griezmann really be excused, or his actions mitigated on the basis that he’s playing in Spain though? He’s part of probably the most diverse national team on the planet, from a country that’s seen no shortage of racial tensions and whose first World Cup win was won by a team whose success was seen as a victory for multi-culturalism in France.

 

The boy Robson, when you take into consideration the video of him last year, certainly seems to have a screw loose, and that’s me being very kind to him. But Griezmann doesn’t strike me as an absolute tool- I could be wrong of course.

 

On Hej’s point about the Harlem Globetrotters, I stand corrected.

[Ray Von]

I remember a guy in my school went out at Halloween wearing a monkey mask and a Rangers top, carrying a bunch of bananas, and said he was dressed as Mark Walters.

[EanieMeany]

Can Griezmann really be excused, or his actions mitigated on the basis that he’s playing in Spain though? He’s part of probably the most diverse national team on the planet, from a country that’s seen no shortage of racial tensions and whose first World Cup win was won by a team whose success was seen as a victory for multi-culturalism in France.

 

 

 

I don't think he should be excused, no, but from an admittedly very distant view, it did seem stupid and ignorant at root rather than derogatory. He's well known as a big basketball fan so it seems it was meant with good intentions, but again, it's ignorant, arrogant and obnoxious at best.

 

On the subject of Spain, "blackface" is a traditional part of the Three Kings Day parades where, for reasons not very clear to anyone, they "black up" a white guy as Balthazar rather than just getting a black person to do it, so it's obviously something that's been mostly acceptable in Spain although that seems to be changing. If people are parading through the streets doing something then it's hardly a signal of condemnation; moreover, people actually complain if anybody suggests they just get a black guy to do it,

 

Again, a top level football footballer should know better but I think there's enough about the circumstances that'd allow him the benefit of the doubt that it was just being a daft bastard rather than seeing skin colour as a joke, but nonetheless he was rightly slaughtered for it. Here's a thing about it

 

https://www.intothecalderon.com/2017/12/18/16788308/antoine-griezmann-racism-symptomatic-larger-problem-atletico-madrid

 

In Scotland/Britain though, there's no shortage of stories slating people for "blackface", and more often than not it's quite clearly intended to be demeaning, be it a looky looky man or Diane Abbott, for example. I find it very hard to imagine that anybody wouldn't know that it's frowned upon, to say the least, so if you're going ahead and doing it anyway then it's an inherently racist act.

 

Incidentally, on the subject of a black person lightening their skin, there's no shortage of stories of black children trying to lighten their skin in any manner of ways ranging from talcum powder through to bleach because of how they and anybody who looks like them gets treated. That's precisely why white people thinking it's a laugh to "black up" is wrong.

[capitanus]

I read this debate with interest, however I've never been one for Benidorm/Magaloof type holidays, so can someone define what a 'Looky Looky' is, and why dressing up like one is racist?

[Ray Von]

I read this debate with interest, however I've never been one for Benidorm/Magaloof type holidays, so can someone define what a 'Looky Looky' is, and why dressing up like one is racist?

They’re guys from Africa who end up in holiday destinations selling a whole range of fake shades, watches and jewellery. A high percentage of them also sell drugs to supplement their income.

Given their colour, the only way to accurately dress up as them is to be black, so I wouldn’t say it’s racist at all.

[JimJam]

I read this debate with interest, however I've never been one for Benidorm/Magaloof type holidays, so can someone define what a 'Looky Looky' is, and why dressing up like one is racist?

 

Do they not have them in Salou mate?

[capitanus]

They’re guys from Africa who end up in holiday destinations selling a whole range of fake shades, watches and jewellery. A high percentage of them also sell drugs to supplement their income.

Given their colour, the only way to accurately dress up as them is to be black, so I wouldn’t say it’s racist at all.

Hmm, it sounds a bit like the African guys in Prague who shout "Titty Bar" at every Western looking white guy who passes them.

 

Surely referring to those people as a 'Looky Looky' is a racist term in itself. After all they may have names like Benson or Benjamin etc.

[EanieMeany]

Surely referring to those people as a 'Looky Looky' is a racist term in itself. 

 

Not really, to be honest. "Looky looky sir, buy a watch" was/is their patter, doubt anybody takes anything more from it than that.

[TONofmemories]

They’re guys from Africa who end up in holiday destinations selling a whole range of fake shades, watches and jewellery. A high percentage of them also sell drugs to supplement their income.

Given their colour, the only way to accurately dress up as them is to be black, so I wouldn’t say it’s racist at all.

Its not. Glad you agree