Charles_Joe Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Going after ownership on this model is the road to renting Ravenscraig. There’s no return on investment, not that anyone is expecting a dividend payment each year. When clubs talk about investment they actually mean a way to cover operating costs. If all this achieves is Crawford sells a load of shares to the fans at a market value this scheme actually sets artificially and without diligence, then it’s just a load of shares in a club still not breaking even. If fans want the return to be the team on the park doing well then it has more effect as an annual revenue on top of gate receipts, etc, than buying out shareholding. I’m sure that’s how the likes of Aberdeen have approached it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 As well as the "the club's in danger of disappearing" patter, I'm not really sure about this idea that the club is "on the verge of flourishing" from the youth set-up and Community work. It quite patently isn't. Yep - he seems to have fully drank the Kool-Aid that we're going to be selling off players for loadsamoney and that McGraw blooding youths in the early 90s was somehow even a model of excellence at that time: when the club instead actually treaded water for years and then finally sank to the third tier for the first time in its history. The genuine innovations that we should be looking at to build our status as a club are instead Hal Stewart's Scandinavian imports (which are mentioned), as well as getting Lindberg and Rajamaki to bail us out of that self-inflicted mess. Unless there's hard evidence to show that GMFC's youth setup is going to be in the top 12 in the country - and that we can also afford to sustain that level of performance and have a proper team on the park - then it cannot be a route out of the club's current cycle of mediocrity. Another concern for me is that there is a lot of talk about creating 'further profitable income streams' without even one example being provided as to what sort of project they have in mind. Without a single concrete proposal being put out there that's just empty words tbh; and if Crawford Rae and GC already had some blueprints sitting on a desk at Cappielow then we wouldn't be in this position. I don't want to sound too critical as I think the premise of the scheme is sound enough. The club is looking for investment: a new collective organisation of fans and backers can provide some of that, without going for full fan ownership which would i) be unrealistic right now and ii) be an absolute fucking shambles anyway. Getting shares of the club in return for that investment - instead of the free gifts to 'transfer warchests' as some other club fanbases have been gullibly lured into, is also the right way to go. But I think the scheme could have done with a bit more hard-headed thinking (and some better packaging on the website) before going live today. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Going after ownership on this model is the road to renting Ravenscraig. There’s no return on investment, not that anyone is expecting a dividend payment each year. When clubs talk about investment they actually mean a way to cover operating costs. If all this achieves is Crawford sells a load of shares to the fans at a market value this scheme actually sets artificially and without diligence, then it’s just a load of shares in a club still not breaking even. If fans want the return to be the team on the park doing well then it has more effect as an annual revenue on top of gate receipts, etc, than buying out shareholding. I’m sure that’s how the likes of Aberdeen have approached it. As far as I can see there's nothing to stop a follow-up scheme being launched immediately after the initial drive towards May 2021. If that takes further shares out of GC's hands in return for investment then that's a better route to go down than fans just signing off a Direct Debit to the club for no stake in return - you'd be as well just hiking the price of season tickets for the same effect. Aberdeen fans might be happy with their club's current ownership model and so don't care about holding a stake; that's not the position we're in. GC has decided it wants out and so investment that helps to prise them out the door is required. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I would assume the 400k goes to Tae and not the club as be buying his shares. That's not how it reads to me, but they could do with a bit more clarity about that. Basically I think it's looking for fans to cover the club's losses to ensure that GC doesn't need to anymore. The fans take the loss making percentage of the club so that GC doesn't have to and so that a new buyer for the club has extra investors it can continually go to in the shape of the fan group (who will have a say in return as a shareholding group). It's looking to ensure that GC doesn't take on any more losses while it looks to find a new buyer - is that not the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Golden Casket will either give up shares, or Morton will create more for this new vehicle. Believe it's agreed that the money won't be taken out and will be kept within Morton in whatever guise. TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Golden Casket will either give up shares, or Morton will create more for this new vehicle. Believe it's agreed that the money won't be taken out and will be kept within Morton in whatever guise. Agreed between whom exactly? The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Initial discussions with Morton i presume? TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Who represents 'Morton' in this discussion? Let's recall that while Crawford Rae is chairman of GMFC and an important director in GC as well, he does not enjoy a controlling stake in the latter. He can't pledge and deliver anything unless the rest of GC's board and major shareholders approve it as well - which is why his three year plan didn't actually last twelve months. The same facts apply to any claim about keeping all money invested within the club. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I'm still in a state of mild shock at this news. Typing much else at this stage wouldn't be a great idea, so I'll restrict it to the following. Crawford has really outdone himself this time and I'm extremely disappointed to see a lot of well-meaning people going along with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Who represents 'Morton' in this discussion? Let's recall that while Crawford Rae is chairman of GMFC and an important director in GC as well, he does not enjoy a controlling stake in the latter. He can't pledge and deliver anything unless the rest of GC's board and major shareholders approve it as well - which is why his three year plan didn't actually last twelve months. The same facts apply to any claim about keeping all money invested within the club. Also the pledge to write off the debt, which has now been changed to 'recommend' that to the shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Who knows then. Just what i was told. Seems a lot of questions needing answers. TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I wish the guy well but I would say there is more chance of 4000 a week than 400k in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 What I don't think you're correct on is that its not buying shares and giving them money, it's putting cash to the club to be used for the club. Rae has already said GC won't be used for money and he can't put anything in so it's not like it's offsetting his costs or anything, it's simply making the club a more stable business (and maybe making their 75% more attractive to other investors). The rough valuations are a stretch when the money is in theory going in rather than going straight to GC but to say the valuation is high is not. Also does Crawford have approval from the sharehders to agree to that? Diluting their shareholding rather than selling? Much like his authority to blanket offer the debt write off which isn't the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 If the other family shareholders tell Crawford he need to pull out then i presume that's what needs to happen. That could happen at any time. TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdc Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 If the other family shareholders tell Crawford he need to pull out then i presume that's what needs to happen. That could happen at any time. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Which is a bit annoying when he's at a Q&A saying he'll wipe of the debt with no actual authority to do so... Or is that wrong? TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdc Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Which is a bit annoying when he's at a Q&A saying he'll wipe of the debt with no actual authority to do so... Or is that wrong?I wasn’t at the Q&A so not sure exactly what was said - but I can imagine that the shareholders probably would be willing to forego the debt to get the club off its hands and so Crawford might have been speaking with knowledge of that position in mind. If the money to pay the debt isn’t there then it isn’t there, whereas there’s always a risk of GC, even now, having to bail Morton out over a season (they’ve said they’ll still cover marginal losses, which are probably likely, and I’m if it really came down to it they possibly wouldn’t want to be seen to put the club under - which might have an impact on GC’s standing in the community - so might prop up something larger in the short term). In short: you’re not wrong, no, but Crawford maybe knew the shareholders’ views on debt v sale when he said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Frightening that its based on word of mouth. TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 First fundraising event - 'Stars of 79 v2' Actually a bit disappointed this isn’t real, imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles_Joe Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 As far as I can see there's nothing to stop a follow-up scheme being launched immediately after the initial drive towards May 2021. If that takes further shares out of GC's hands in return for investment then that's a better route to go down than fans just signing off a Direct Debit to the club for no stake in return - you'd be as well just hiking the price of season tickets for the same effect. Aberdeen fans might be happy with their club's current ownership model and so don't care about holding a stake; that's not the position we're in. GC has decided it wants out and so investment that helps to prise them out the door is required. To own the club means buying Cappielow. What part of Morton would the fans be owning, the strips? I get the point that this isn’t about fans fully owning the club, which would definitely be ‘renting Ravenscraig’ (which I’m claiming as the new tagline), but the best route all round is to let GC sell the thing in one go. This feels like a vehicle to allow Rae to factor in the debt against the shares held value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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