irnbru Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Nope, that’s exactly the same as exchanging £400k for 15% of the club just with a set of paper-thin pledges to go along with it. People can judge whether or not that’s worth investing in but you can’t dress it up as something that it’s not. No it isn't. It's not as simple as a valuation of the club based on selling shares to someone. The initiative itself is at a pledge stage anyway so presumably the agreements with the club will be formalised before anyone actually contributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 What really concerns me is the elephant in the room: The Bus Wankers. So many people amongst the Morton supporters are resigned to them being the only people who are likely to, or potentially be interested in, investing in Morton and acquiring The Rae Family's/Golden Caskets shareholdings in the club. That is a real cause for concern, because if they takeover they will do as they please and no amount of airy-fairy fans groups will be able to hold them to account. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Nope, that’s exactly the same as exchanging £400k for 15% of the club just with a set of paper-thin pledges to go along with it. People can judge whether or not that’s worth investing in but you can’t dress it up as something that it’s not. Bang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1m quid to buy St Mirren a few year ago or 400k for 15% of Morton, who are debt ridden going by books, is it any wonder no one has looked to buy us The St Mirren proposal was a different thing though. The basic idea was £12 a month - £10 to go towards buying the club and £2 towards the club. According to this all the money will go to the club. I agree with what others have said in terms having a guarantee of this, but it would be an entirely different thing if we were giving £400,000 to GC for 15% of the club. That's not what this is (on the face of it, at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 No it isn't. It's not as simple as a valuation of the club based on selling shares to someone. The initiative itself is at a pledge stage anyway so presumably the agreements with the club will be formalised before anyone actually contributes. Yes it is - £400k gets handed over in exchange for x number of shares in the club. The number of shares handed out depends on the valuation of the club which has already been calculated. Unless of course MCT are bizarrely choosing to demand fewer shares than a £400k investment entitles them to just because Crawford has made some pinky promises. In which case they’re already getting done by the club and aren’t a credible investment group at all. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 The St Mirren proposal was a different thing though. The basic idea was £12 a month - £10 to go towards buying the club and £2 towards the club. According to this all the money will go to the club. I agree with what others have said in terms having a guarantee of this, but it would be an entirely different thing if we were giving £400,000 to GC for 15% of the club. That's not what this is (on the face of it, at least). That is entirely what it is, just with some flimsy membership scheme privileges and even flimsier Crawford promises to make it look more innovative. MCT invests £400k and gets a stake in return; in the same way that if the Easdales, Gordon Ramsay or whatever fantasy island investor of your choice put £400k in they would get a stake in the club and the club could use that money to do whatever it wants. The fans putting capital into the club is not a bad idea in principle but we need to understand that for what it is instead of pretending it’s something else entirely. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 That is entirely what it is, just with some flimsy membership scheme privileges and even flimsier Crawford promises to make it look more innovative. MCT invests £400k and gets a stake in return; in the same way that if the Easdales, Gordon Ramsay or whatever fantasy island investor of your choice put £400k in they would get a stake in the club and the club could use that money to do whatever it wants. The fans putting capital into the club is not a bad idea in principle but we need to understand that for what it is instead of pretending it’s something else entirely. Agreed. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 That is entirely what it is, just with some flimsy membership scheme privileges and even flimsier Crawford promises to make it look more innovative. MCT invests £400k and gets a stake in return; in the same way that if the Easdales, Gordon Ramsay or whatever fantasy island investor of your choice put £400k in they would get a stake in the club and the club could use that money to do whatever it wants. The fans putting capital into the club is not a bad idea in principle but we need to understand that for what it is instead of pretending it’s something else entirely. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 That is entirely what it is, just with some flimsy membership scheme privileges and even flimsier Crawford promises to make it look more innovative. MCT invests £400k and gets a stake in return; in the same way that if the Easdales, Gordon Ramsay or whatever fantasy island investor of your choice put £400k in they would get a stake in the club and the club could use that money to do whatever it wants. The fans putting capital into the club is not a bad idea in principle but we need to understand that for what it is instead of pretending it’s something else entirely. It's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Then the speel put up by the MCT on its website must be total bollocks because that is what their publicly available plan currently entails. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 It's not. You obviously know more than the rest of us as maybe you have a connection to the new trust or personnel but what has been written and reported in the press, and quoted, is not a reflection of what you are claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 That is entirely what it is, just with some flimsy membership scheme privileges and even flimsier Crawford promises to make it look more innovative. MCT invests £400k and gets a stake in return; in the same way that if the Easdales, Gordon Ramsay or whatever fantasy island investor of your choice put £400k in they would get a stake in the club and the club could use that money to do whatever it wants. The fans putting capital into the club is not a bad idea in principle but we need to understand that for what it is instead of pretending it’s something else entirely. It's not the same thing. The vast majority of the SMiSA did not go into the club, it went towards buying the club from Stewart Gilmour. If we were being asked to give Golden Casket £400,000 for a 15% stake in the club, then that would be the same thing. Whether they have thought out the best way to go about this is another matter, but they are not looking to do the same thing as the SMiSA did. An issue here is how to guarantee that the funds raised go to the club and are used by the club, but the idea is for the funds to go to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 You appear to know an awful lot about this. Are you connected? Is the GMST dead? Gordon, you know who he is. Stop acting like a dick. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 It's not the same thing. The vast majority of the SMiSA did not go into the club, it went towards buying the club from Stewart Gilmour. If we were being asked to give Golden Casket £400,000 for a 15% stake in the club, then that would be the same thing. Whether they have thought out the best way to go about this is another matter, but they are not looking to do the same thing as the SMiSA did. An issue here is how to guarantee that the funds raised go to the club and are used by the club, but the idea is for the funds to go to the club. GC is a shareholder, not the club itself. What is happening is that the club is willing to create extra shares and give them to MCT in exchange for investment. It’s pretty much a closed share issue. That’s the same deal that any other investors would likely get because we’re dealing with a dysfunctional football club that GC wants rid of here and not a controlling stake in Apple. No one is going to hand over money for GC’s shares, ever. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 If it is 2 years for 15%. How many years for a majority and at what cost? Also, once we have 50%, is Crawford and his family happy to retain 24% or what ever it may be come that point? Another question is, how long is Rae still going to be the majority shareholder as he wants out so is he willing to wait 8-10years until such a time as fan ownership or what happens if a party comes in, say, 2022 and doesn’t want anything to do with fan ownership? Will the other trust sell their shares to this trust or transfer them over as a starting point for the new trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 GC is a shareholder, not the club itself. What is happening is that the club is willing to create extra shares and give them to MCT in exchange for investment. It’s pretty much a closed share issue. That’s the same deal that any other investors would likely get because we’re dealing with a dysfunctional football club that GC wants rid of here and not a controlling stake in Apple. No one is going to hand over money for GC’s shares, ever. Are you replying to me, or just having your own conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 GMST are the second biggest shareholder so I am sure they are involved and aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EanieMeany Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Are you replying to me, or just having your own conversation? AWMSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 If that's the case, it will fail. They would have had to have been notified surely if there was the potential of diluting their shareholding? Don’t know if we need two trusts to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Looking at what is being proposed, I can see similarities between this and the GMST at its initial conception eg. People join the Trust, some 'Loan note holders' pledge a subscription or a lump sum which would in turn go towards funding the purchase of shares ensuring 'a say in your local club'. A reasonable stake in the club was acquired by the GMST and the GMST even had their representative on the board for several years afterwards - Messrs. Ian McColl and Stuart Duncan - however neither of them effectively held the Chairman or Chief Executive at the time over their mismanagement or reckless accrual of debts, or were able to prevent the 'debt for equity swap' which eroded the GMSTs shareholdings to a negligible level. What is being proposed yesterday all seems very familiar, the people involved, the amounts and the dates have all changed, the organisation may have a different name, but it is essentially the same idea. I don't think that Supporters Trusts are a bad thing, nor is the idea of fans being financial stakeholders in the club they love, but there seems to be so much wrong about this proposal, starting with the valuation, which make this idea a certain to fail. I see those very names circling their wagons on the Morton Fans Facebook group in the discussion about MCT when, rightfully so, GMST criticisms are being aired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpeg.bf8ff4187ec871eb7009922bdb6487f6.jpeg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.