capitanus Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 There is a lot of negative feeling at the moment towards the Rae Family, and in particular, Crawford Rae at the moment regarding them retaining ownership of our clubs' rightful home, Cappielow Park, whenever MCT eventually take ownership of Morton FC. Would be keen to know everyone else's thoughts on alternatives to lining the pockets of the very guy who is blatantly asset stripping us right now. Discuss. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 This is entirely the wrong question to ask because this is actually the critical moment in preventing any such choice from having to be made. You're assuming a fait accompli when the current regime has just openly admitted to the fact that they need fans to prop them up until the summer. What needs to happen instead is that a crowdsourcing fighting fund gets set up under the auspices of MCT, the funds of which will only get released to GMFC on the condition that the Raes drop their illegitimate claim to the stadium land. They can keep the fucking car park if they've already hived that off. We do not need to deal in such useless second-best options if we mobilise right now. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, vikingTON said: This is entirely the wrong question to ask because this is actually the critical moment in preventing any such choice from having to be made. You're assuming a fait accompli when the current regime has just openly admitted to the fact that they need fans to prop them up until the summer. What needs to happen instead is that a crowdsourcing fighting fund gets set up under the auspices of MCT, the funds of which will only get released to GMFC on the condition that the Raes drop their illegitimate claim to the stadium land. They can keep the fucking car park if they've already hived that off. We do not need to deal in such useless second-best options if we mobilise right now. I would be in favour of MCT cutting all funding to Morton immediately until the ownership of Cappielow issue has a favourable resolution. However, I don't think all supporters would go along with it. What I would suggest is that if the Rae Family insist on ownership, to do a Coventry City and groundshare at Ravenscraig or even St.Mirren rather than giving them the rental money. The stadium will be worthless to them without a tenant, especially if planning consent for non sporting activities is blocked. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 There's no way we'd get primary tenancy of Ravenscraig. It was upgraded primarily as a community facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdc Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I don’t really see what difference it would make to GC as they’ll be charging a peppercorn rate only whereas there would be - I’d imagine a fairly hefty - commercial rate involved for MCT in playing at Ravenscraig or another senior ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Is Cappielow registered to Greenock Morton FC? The car park is registered to a different company the RAE’S set up, can’t recall the name. The reason I ask, if we went into Admin and the ground is under another company name, then that is a huge concern. Regarding the “peppercorn rate”, maybe Rae can leave the steak and we can sort our own Peppercorn with whoever we want when the club is sold. RAE’S OUT, STADIUM STAYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so72 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Ravenscraig would be so convenient in regards to where my family home is but, regardless of our situation with the Raes, any stadium with a running track can be jettisoned into the sun thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Great idea, smooth the path to them monetising the asset they are stripping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Strathblane Crescent Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 52 minutes ago, Malt said: Is Cappielow registered to Greenock Morton FC? The car park is registered to a different company the RAE’S set up, can’t recall the name. The reason I ask, if we went into Admin and the ground is under another company name, then that is a huge concern. Regarding the “peppercorn rate”, maybe Rae can leave the steak and we can sort our own Peppercorn with whoever we want when the club is sold. RAE’S OUT, STADIUM STAYS. No, The car park and stadium are under Greenock Morton. There was a company set up called Greenock Morton FC (Property Ltd) which is still active but is dormant. Nothing to stop Crawford using that company to hive of the ground. That company was set up to take advantage of the Tall Ships as Dougie planned to use the car park for that purpose. There was a reason it was never used for that purpose which I can't remember but it might come back to me. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordyton Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Thanks but no thanks always Cappielow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrstorm Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 if thats your thought pattern, may as well have added to the question ...... and fill in application to Junior leagues at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malt Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, 9 Strathblane Crescent said: No, The car park and stadium are under Greenock Morton. There was a company set up called Greenock Morton FC (Property Ltd) which is still active but is dormant. Nothing to stop Crawford using that company to hive of the ground. That company was set up to take advantage of the Tall Ships as Dougie planned to use the car park for that purpose. There was a reason it was never used for that purpose which I can't remember but it might come back to me. My fear is the Stadium being transferred to this holding company or GC with Administration leaving but a name and debt for any prospective buyer. Remember Dougie said it would either be an “idiot Or a fan”’who would Buy Morton. Looks like we got both last time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 When we are saying "Ravenscraig" are we referring to the stadium or the area in general? McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up. Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control... That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 6 hours ago, cmdc said: I don’t really see what difference it would make to GC as they’ll be charging a peppercorn rate only whereas there would be - I’d imagine a fairly hefty - commercial rate involved for MCT in playing at Ravenscraig or another senior ground. If the Greenock Juniors can afford it, why can't we? The other thing to take into account, why should Morton pay ANY rent -peppercorn or otherwise - to stay in what is rightfully theirs? Playing at Ravenscraig might not be ideal and may not be palatable - let's face it, it isn't Cappielow, and it isn't even a proper Football ground but it could accommodate 1500-2000 crowds regularly and it is within the Inverclyde conurbation, and should be considered as a bargaining chip to get back what is rightfully Morton's. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 In most leases involving a peppercorn rent it is set at £1 and almost never paid. As long as it is not a market or artificial rent the lease option could work albeit my preference would always be for Cappielow to be owned by the club. The issue is if the Rae family want their pound of flesh then the 'material' asset in GMFC is Cappielow which is retained in the accounts at approximately £3m. I have no doubt the family appreciate they will not get anything like £3m but if Morton ceased to exist they have land to sell - planning for alternative use would not be overly problematic if there was no prospect of a continuation of existing use. It would therefore be interesting to see if the Raes would put a 'realistic' price on Cappielow for a sale to fans. As for Ravenscraig is that not a bin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piehutt Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 There’s a fair bit of ignorance here about the finances of Morton. For a good few years now, Morton has been propped up by Golden Casket financially. This means a hole in the GC balance sheet in the shape of debt that the Morton business effectively owe. GC / Rae is giving up that debt in return for the property, is my understanding of what will happen before April. the alternatives are as follows; MCT starting ownership with £2.6 million of debt. or MCT walking away and GC effectively forcing a sale of Morton (which would have to be for a few million pounds) or (more likely) GC forcing the club into administration to recover as much as they could of what they are owed. clearly Rae wants to avoid administration that and no other buyer would pay enough for the Morton business to make administration look less attractive, give the land is valued at c. £3 million. the reality is MCT are a few million pounds away from actually being able to take over Morton and manage the debt or purchase Cappielow or alternative stadium. the current deal from the Raes is the best we are going to get and the best future for Morton. Twitter... tweet tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 minute ago, piehutt said: There’s a fair bit of ignorance here about the finances of Morton. For a good few years now, Morton has been propped up by Golden Casket financially. This means a hole in the GC balance sheet in the shape of debt that the Morton business effectively owe. GC / Rae is giving up that debt in return for the property, is my understanding of what will happen before April. the alternatives are as follows; MCT starting ownership with £2.6 million of debt. or MCT walking away and GC effectively forcing a sale of Morton (which would have to be for a few million pounds) or (more likely) GC forcing the club into administration to recover as much as they could of what they are owed. clearly Rae wants to avoid administration that and no other buyer would pay enough for the Morton business to make administration look less attractive, give the land is valued at c. £3 million. the reality is MCT are a few million pounds away from actually being able to take over Morton and manage the debt or purchase Cappielow or alternative stadium. the current deal from the Raes is the best we are going to get and the best future for Morton. Propped up a debt caused by their their own financial mismanagement and lack of commercial accumen to generate new revenue. 'Giving up the debt' in return for the property. A debt that was always said to be getting written off but now effectively isn't being given up, they are repossessing the assets for debt repayment. We have no idea if any other buyer would pay enough as the club has never effectively been put on the market. There was also reportedly a bid before the MCT golden handshake deal for the Raes was announced. We have no details of who, or how much, that bid involved or if there are other prospective buyers out there. The Raes are having their cake and eating it, and MCT (who never realistically spoke about short term full ownership until the announcement) bit their hand off at the first option of ownership without seriously considering how the land grab would go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piehutt Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, HamCam said: 19 minutes ago, Jamie_M said: Propped up a debt caused by their their own financial mismanagement and lack of commercial accumen to generate new revenue. 'Giving up the debt' in return for the property. A debt that was always said to be getting written off but now effectively isn't being given up, they are repossessing the assets for debt repayment. We have no idea if any other buyer would pay enough as the club has never effectively been put on the market. There was also reportedly a bid before the MCT golden handshake deal for the Raes was announced. We have no details of who, or how much, that bid involved or if there are other prospective buyers out there. The Raes are having their cake and eating it, and MCT (who never realistically spoke about short term full ownership until the announcement) bit their hand off at the first option of ownership without seriously considering how the land grab would go down. well we are where we are. Don’t remember too many fans requesting PT football and queuing up to be lottery agents to help finance the football. It’s no secret that Rae has wanted out for a while so I’m sure any serious interested parties would have had discussions. No way would Rae be up for selling Morton to a private individual (Easdales) writing off the debt and letting them keep the asst. and I certainly wouldn’t d be happy with that either. MCT could have played hard ball and likely we would remain at an impasse with Rae not willing to give up £2.6 million and not willing to fund the club to a greater level and things just meandering on with no progress and even less chance of a good team on the park. Twitter... tweet tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, piehutt said: well we are where we are. Don’t remember too many fans requesting PT football and queuing up to be lottery agents to help finance the football. Wow. You nailed the Rae regime's entire commercial strategy right there - do nothing different, hope a few more friends contribute to the current paltry commercial offerings and threaten PT football. It’s no secret that Rae has wanted out for a while so I’m sure any serious interested parties would have had discussions. No way would Rae be up for selling Morton to a private individual (Easdales) writing off the debt and letting them keep the asst. and I certainly wouldn’t d be happy with that either. Discussions that would likely break down when they realise the Raes want 'their' money back, full paper value for the assets and someone taking on the loss liability. MCT could have played hard ball and likely we would remain at an impasse with Rae not willing to give up £2.6 million and not willing to fund the club to a greater level and things just meandering on with no progress and even less chance of a good team on the park. A debt that was always supposed to be given up but here we are with them trousers the assets in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdc Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 hours ago, HamCam said: In most leases involving a peppercorn rent it is set at £1 and almost never paid. As long as it is not a market or artificial rent the lease option could work albeit my preference would always be for Cappielow to be owned by the club. The issue is if the Rae family want their pound of flesh then the 'material' asset in GMFC is Cappielow which is retained in the accounts at approximately £3m. I have no doubt the family appreciate they will not get anything like £3m but if Morton ceased to exist they have land to sell - planning for alternative use would not be overly problematic if there was no prospect of a continuation of existing use. It would therefore be interesting to see if the Raes would put a 'realistic' price on Cappielow for a sale to fans. As for Ravenscraig is that not a bin? This is basically how I see it. There are real risks with retaining ownership of the ground too, and the devil will be in the detail of any agreement between MCT and GC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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