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capitanus

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I doubt there'll be any football this side of Christmas anyway.


"CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND"

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Partick down, Falkirk still down, no reconstruction promotion for the lecherous tuechatrs or Ayr, and a first visit to Tynecastle in about 40 years.

 

Ooft indeed.

Is this what's happening? Good stuff.

Partick down!?!

 

Yep, that sounds good to me.

Edited by capitanus

You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Partick down, Falkirk still down, no reconstruction promotion for the lecherous tuechatrs or Ayr, and a first visit to Tynecastle in about 40 years.

 

Ooft indeed.

Hadn’t the SPFL left open the question of reconstruction as part of the original resolution?

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

Good post.

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

Agreed. 

 

Least of anyone's worries right now. 


TIME FOR CHANGE!

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

Great post.


"CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND"

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

I will stop short of saying it's a great post, however you have made very good points and put these across impeccably as ever. A lot of it is, however, based on speculation as you have no knowledge of what is likely to come 'down the chute' after the Pandemic passes. The economy may take some time to recover, and indeed economists may be forecasting recession to be the worst since the inter-war years, but they also said that about the last recession; and the one in the early nineties; plus the one in the early eighties etc. The one thing that is for certain is the Government Furlough Scheme which has been a lifeline for many at this time will have to be paid for by the taxpayers.

 

Whether or not Morton will be effected, or indeed, the Rae's other business interests is another matter altogether. What we are debating here is whether we should accept that only 14 of the 18 league games were played and write off the rest of outlay; should we get something off next year's season tickets or should the punters get a refund. Surely someone of your intellect should be able to get their head around these options. It's as easy as 1,2 or 3.

 

Agreed.

 

Least of anyone's worries right now.

Well if that's the case, so is wanting Falkirk to stay down, Partick to get relegated etc.

 

This is a forum for Morton supporters and it is an issue which will effect around 600 or so supporters, whether they are bothered about it or not. This is the right place to debate such a thing, and the question will get asked at some point unless we are denied the options.

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You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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What I will say in the club's favour is that they've been

I'm in the same position as Sammy and Paul, having paid £89 hospitality for the Dundee United game. That's on top of what works out as £66.67 for the four remaining games. Do you really expect folk not to ask for something, be it a refund, or replacement hospitality package for their £89? I expect that an alternative will be offered, but if any business thinks they can take £89 off someone and give them nothing in return because people are dying, they've got a seriously misplaced sense of their customers' generosity/stupidity.

I had forgotten all about the Hospitality until you mentioned that, it's hard to imagine that was only four weeks ago as it seems a long time ago now. I reckon the club would probably offer an alternative game next season so I'm not worried about that.

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You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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If you pay in advance for event tickets, which is what you're doing with a season ticket, then it's not at all unreasonable for people to be expecting some kind of recompense if they events don't happen. People are likely to be more forgiving when it comes to a football team, but it'd be a pretty bad look if any club didn't either offer some kind of reimbursement for this season or a discount on next season's price, and I don't think anybody who took a refund (if it was going) would be out of line either.

 

As for it being the least of people's worries, I'm not so sure. It's not particularly hard to envisage a set of circumstances in which somebody's lost their job and is desperate for money, which means paying for a luxury item that hasn't been delivered becomes an issue. £300 was a lot of money in one go without a finance scheme as it was, without not getting the full package you paid for.

 

If I had a season ticket I wouldn't be actively seeking out a refund, but I wouldn't be looking down on anyone who did either.

Edited by EanieMeany
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AWMSC

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If you pay in advance for event tickets, which is what you're doing with a season ticket, then it's not at all unreasonable for people to be expecting some kind of recompense if they events don't happen. People are likely to be more forgiving when it comes to a football team, but it'd be a pretty bad look if any club didn't either offer some kind of reimbursement for this season or a discount on next season's price, and I don't think anybody who took a refund (if it was going) would be out of line either.

 

As for it being the least of people's worries, I'm not so sure. It's not particularly hard to envisage a set of circumstances in which somebody's lost their job and is desperate for money, which makes paying for a luxury item that hasn't been delivered becomes an issue. £300 was a lot of money in one go without a finance scheme as it was, without not getting the full package you paid for.

 

If I had a season ticket I wouldn't be actively seeking out a refund, but I wouldn't be looking down on anyone who did either.

Have a greenie.

 

Next.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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I will stop short of saying it's a great post, however you have made very good points and put these across impeccably as ever. A lot of it is, however, based on speculation as you have no knowledge of what is likely to come 'down the chute' after the Pandemic passes. The economy may take some time to recover, and indeed economists may be forecasting recession to be the worst since the inter-war years, but they also said that about the last recession; and the one in the early nineties; plus the one in the early eighties etc. The one thing that is for certain is the Government Furlough Scheme which has been a lifeline for many at this time will have to be paid for by the taxpayers.

 

Whether or not Morton will be effected, or indeed, the Rae's other business interests is another matter altogether.

 

I suggest you read the OBR's economic forecast issued today to check your mebbes aye, mebbes no view on the impact of shutting down vast tracts of the country for the foreseeable future. And the impacts will be felt particularly badly in such a secondary leisure sector like Scottish professional football.

 

The sweeteners that Sky/BT etc. are offering their customers now will have to be paid for: and you can bet that it will be the tinpot tartan TV deal that will get slashed before those companies risk losing their English rights. Many of the sponsors that pay for hoardings around the grounds will likely not exist in six months' time, and even those that do survive will have other priorities for their remaining funds than sponsorship. And to top the lot, after much Helen Lovejoy hand-wringing by clowns in the media about how disgraceful it is for football clubs to accept money from gambling companies, the SPFL has now lost its Ladbrokes' sponsorship deal and so has to find a replacement deal this fucking summer in the midst of a catastrophic national downturn and global recession just to keep the wheels greased. The farcical handling of the last few days can only have added value to the Scottish football brand.

 

We are looking at a much broader and more serious financial crisis to hit Scottish football than the collapse of Setanta and GMFC is already not a going concern by anything other than the grace and favour of its parent company. That anyone thinks that there could never mind should be a nice wee goodwill gesture to season ticket holders in the midst of this crisis is completely batshit mental.

 

What we are debating here is whether we should accept that only 14 of the 18 league games were played and write off the rest of outlay; should we get something off next year's season tickets or should the punters get a refund. Surely someone of your intellect should be able to get their head around these options. It's as easy as 1,2 or 3.

 

 

The facts as outlined above and in the previous post render two of those three debate points redundant.

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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If you pay in advance for event tickets, which is what you're doing with a season ticket, then it's not at all unreasonable for people to be expecting some kind of recompense if they events don't happen. People are likely to be more forgiving when it comes to a football team, but it'd be a pretty bad look if any club didn't either offer some kind of reimbursement for this season or a discount on next season's price, and I don't think anybody who took a refund (if it was going) would be out of line either.

 

 

Except that the event did in fact happen: the clue is in the term 'season ticket' and not '18 home games ticket'. That a handful of (in our case) dead rubber fixtures were not fulfilled due to circumstances completely outwith the club's control is neither here nor there: the 19/20 season has taken place and anyone who bought a ST had full access to those fixtures at Cappielow.

 

As for it being the least of people's worries, I'm not so sure. It's not particularly hard to envisage a set of circumstances in which somebody's lost their job and is desperate for money, which means paying for a luxury item that hasn't been delivered becomes an issue. £300 was a lot of money in one go without a finance scheme as it was, without not getting the full package you paid for.

 

 

If they've got a time machine that can take them back to June 2019 when the money was actually paid then they should just be putting their life savings into health stocks rather than trying to cancel their ST. That outlay nine months ago is completely irrelevant to their job/economic situation now: it is the very definition of a sunk cost that a logical person is compelled to write off.

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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I think if the club makes it plain that they are being battered by the impending global depression, they will earn some goodwill.


Now before Gavin goes, I'd like to ask him one more question.


Do you like Abba?

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It'd be rather early for the club to make that plea but it would certainly help if there wasn't attention-seeking chief executive of Dundee of all clubs humming and hawing over how the season should be wrapped up and jeopardising the future of dozens of clubs up and down the country into the bargain. This nonsense needs to end soon: not just to release outstanding funds but to allow clubs and the SPFL to work out how to keep the lights on even if football is able to resume 'as normal' in July (more likely August). Nobody is sponsoring this ongoing farce.


The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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I suggest you read the OBR's economic forecast issued today to check your mebbes aye, mebbes no view on the impact of shutting down vast tracts of the country for the foreseeable future. And the impacts will be felt particularly badly in such a secondary leisure sector like Scottish professional football.

 

 

 

The reports from the Office of Budget Responsibility is essentially an economic forecast of what 'could' happen as a result of the lockdown being in place for a certain time period. The key word here is 'forecast' which means this is essentially a prediction for a future based on a series of possibilities. It is not a definite guarantee that this will happen, however it is speculation published by civil servants who are making informed opinion plus Factoring in worst case scenarios. It may be informed opinion by those that know the subject greater than you or I, but it is still opinion and therefore remains speculation.

 

 

 

The sweeteners that Sky/BT etc. are offering their customers now will have to be paid for: and you can bet that it will be the tinpot tartan TV deal that will get slashed before those companies risk losing their English rights. Many of the sponsors that pay for hoardings around the grounds will likely not exist in six months' time, and even those that do survive will have other priorities for their remaining funds than sponsorship.

 

 

 

^^^ speculation.

 

 

And to top the lot, after much Helen Lovejoy hand-wringing by clowns in the media about how disgraceful it is for football clubs to accept money from gambling companies, the SPFL has now lost its Ladbrokes' sponsorship deal and so has to find a replacement deal this fucking summer in the midst of a catastrophic national downturn and global recession just to keep the wheels greased. The farcical handling of the last few days can only have added value to the Scottish football brand.

 

 

^^^ speculation.

 

 

We are looking at a much broader and more serious financial crisis to hit Scottish football than the collapse of Setanta and GMFC is already not a going concern by anything other than the grace and favour of its parent company.

 

 

There will be difficult times ahead for many companies and Football clubs too, but within every business model there needs to be an element of resilience with contingency and DR plans in place to mitigate against such events. No business plans to fail, but many fail to plan.

 

Given that there has been world events in living memory which many would not have anticipated, for example the 9/11 Terror attacks which had an impact similar for the USA -flights were grounded for several weeks; financial markets go into freefall; world travel industry severely affected; shops, restaurants, theatres, sporting events, cinemas etc all experience a huge downturn, thousands lose jobs etc.

Given that economic downturn or war, nuclear attack, global pandemic etc.are not unforeseeable, plans should be in place to counteract what the impact could be on a business.

 

 

 

That anyone thinks that there could never mind should be a nice wee goodwill gesture to season ticket holders in the midst of this crisis is completely batshit mental.

 

 

I looked at the GMFC.net website for a season Tickets Terms & Conditions Statement, and lo and behold, there isn't one. If there was one and it was clearly mentioned a Force Majeure clause which would cover this pandemic, then any purchaser wouldn't have the right of redress. But alas, there isn't one.

 

In UK contract law, any ambiguity in a contract favours the complainant.

 

 

The facts as outlined above and in the previous post render two of those three debate points redundant.

But they don't, do they?

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You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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The impact of 9/11 on global travel, hospitality, and close-contact events and facilities (concerts, theme parks, sports stadiums, cinemas, pubs, dine-in restaurants, tube stations, luxury apartments, shopping malls, fun runs, January sales, airplanes, trains, strip clubs, homeless shelters, schools) won't be a fiftieth of that of the current pandemic.

 

What's happened so far is only the beginning of what is going to be a brief but memorable era of Weird Shit. I have no idea how things are going to shake out. But the impact on the end consumer is going to be far greater than anything we've undergone in decades.

 

9/11 added some annoyances at the airport and precipitated the just invasion of Afghanistan and the unjust invasion of Iraq, which collectively cost trillions of dollars and eroded some of the final privacy rights of Americans. At the end of the day, though, who actually cared? Almost nobody. I certainly didn't.

 

This, however, is shaking out to be quite a bit more serious. The long-term effect of this pandemic will make the aftermath of 9/11 look like a teenage party being dispersed by a couple of angry cops.

 

Professional football will survive, of course it will, but for clubs like Morton I have no idea what the future is going to look like. In a weird way, I'm actually more sanguine about our chances than I am those of the clubs who bank on selling out a close-quarters stadium every week. The future of soccer seems to me to lie between the ultra-rich TV clubs playing for keeps, and local clubs playing for a community, with very little in-between. A bit like music, where you have the global acts worth millions, then the bands scrambling around on small tours, and nobody in between. Or fiction writing, where a few writers make millions and everybody else makes next to nothing.


Now before Gavin goes, I'd like to ask him one more question.


Do you like Abba?

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