Belgium V Scotland

[dmc]

Glad I was stuck on a bus with no radio signal. Levin should have been punted at end o euro qualifiers. Get in the wee ginger menace. Avrils as dour as rannoch moor on a drizzly November morn.

 

That's almost poetic!

[Satans Husband]

You can only piss with the c0ck you've got.

I guess so, presumably Michael O'Neill is the kind of guy that could write his full name in the snow and put it in inverted commas.

[Flyerton]

Bye bye Rio 2014:

 

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries...ings/index.html

 

Gordon Strachan at 9/4 with Bet Victor at the moment to take on the Scotland job.

 

http://www.betvictor.com/sports/en/footbal...mp;period=10976

[lazy_ar*e_student]

I watched it last night, we hardly played at all and if it wasn't for Allan McGregor we'd been dead and buried after 10 minutes. Of course Gordon, McGregor and Feltcher said nothing, we all know what Levein can do when he spits the dummy out. What saddened me last night was looking at Twitter and Facebook and seeing people who had travelled over to Belgium saying "forget the result, lets have a good time".

 

FWIW the silence from the SFA has been defeaning to say the least, as always no leadership at the top and from the manager. If the SFA do sack levein it'll probably mean bringing someone in who is currently without a job in order to avoid paying an additional fee. So looking at guys such as Walter Smith (though who would his coaches be), Gordon Strachan (if he's good enough why has he been out a job for a while?), Owen Coyle and Steve Kean, 'Arry Rednknapp and Joe Jordan...

 

On the other hand we can step up the following campaigns:

 

Levein for Blackburn

Levein for Burnley

Levein for Bolton

[The Shuffler]

Bye bye Rio 2014:

 

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries...ings/index.html

 

Gordon Strachan at 9/4 with Bet Victor at the moment to take on the Scotland job.

 

http://www.betvictor.com/sports/en/footbal...mp;period=10976

 

 

 

Forget Strachan, a guy who has walked away in a huff from almost every job he's been in when the pressure mounts. He was also totally clueless when he was in charge of Celtic in Europe, a backward step imo.

[tommydoc]

The interviews with Craig Gordon and Allan McGregor prove that the players have obviously succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome. They've fallen in league with their captor, Levein.

Gordon said "when we opened up in the last ten minutes against Serbia and Macedonia, we could easily have lost the game".

McGregors attitude when asked 'Would it not be better to lose, having a go against Belgium, than sitting back hoping for damage limitation' was shocking. He said "What would you have done, attack them?". Sorry Allan, but attacking is the only way to win a 'must-win' game.

 

In 3 years, all Levein has done is convince the players that we are 'Andorra', or 'San Marino'. We should not be a team that sits back for 80 minutes, against every single team we play, with a 5 man defensive midfield made of attacking players, defending 25 yards from our goal line.

 

Last night, again, there was no man-for-man marking, that's why they had two men unmarked from the corner we lost the first goal from. Levein has them marking zones. If you send a team on to play football without any instructions, their football brain will tell them to do the basics, they man-for-man mark, limiting the opposing teams space. Leveins teams are too busy looking for the zone they should be in. Our 11 players would do better just going on to the park, listening to their own football brain, than listening to Leveins instructions.

 

In the second half last night, Hazard had a free role, Pandev had a free role against us, and, Bale had a free role against us. Stop these guys playing, especially Bale and Pandev, and you stop their team. Levein let them all control the game, if he's going to have 5 in midfield, the best way to try to stop them is man-mark them, he didn't. He let all of them control the game.

 

None of our results in this Group are the players fault, get a Manager in that can instill belief in the players, that's how to stop the current slide. Take the FIFA Rankings, they are bolllocks I know, but we are at 56, Levein has us playing like we are 126, but if we don't change the Manager, we will be 126.

[cmdc]

The interviews with Craig Gordon and Allan McGregor prove that the players have obviously succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome. They've fallen in league with their captor, Levein.

Gordon said "when we opened up in the last ten minutes against Serbia and Macedonia, we could easily have lost the game".

McGregors attitude when asked 'Would it not be better to lose, having a go against Belgium, than sitting back hoping for damage limitation' was shocking. He said "What would you have done, attack them?". Sorry Allan, but attacking is the only way to win a 'must-win' game.

 

None of our results in this Group are the players fault, get a Manager in that can instill belief in the players, that's how to stop the current slide. Take the FIFA Rankings, they are bolllocks I know, but we are at 56, Levein has us playing like we are 126, but if we don't change the Manager, we will be 126.

 

Disagree with both of these points:

 

First: McGregor and Flethcer had nothing like Stockholm Syndrome - they were offering a perfectly reasonable view that had Scotland opened up they'd have gotten gubbed, and that the best way to win the match - a la Paris - was to keep it tight for as long as possible. You could see in Fletcher and McGregor's reaction how little they thought of the interviewer's point.

 

On the second point: the players share the blame too, absolutely they do. On an individual level: if Naismith scores a 1-on-1 with Serbia, or if Adam does his job in Cardiff, we have more points on the board and are in a healthier position. More importantly, when established internationalists and Premiership players can't keep possession and make simple passes (as was the case for most of the first half last night) then they can't (and to be fair didn't try to) hide behind the manager for that.

 

None of which is to absolve Levein from his share of the blame.

[garymcc1874]

Ehhh .. Gordon, Fletcher, and McGregor were spot on. If we went out and attacked Belgium from the first minute it'd have been a double figures demolition.

 

 

Looking at last night's game as the moment we gave up hopes of qualification is stupid - no reasonable, sane person would expect us to get a result away against that Belgium side. It was lost in the first 3 games, last night is almost irrelevant.

[tommydoc]

Disagree with both of these points:

 

First: McGregor and Flethcer had nothing like Stockholm Syndrome - they were offering a perfectly reasonable view that had Scotland opened up they'd have gotten gubbed, and that the best way to win the match - a la Paris - was to keep it tight for as long as possible. You could see in Fletcher and McGregor's reaction how little they thought of the interviewer's point.

 

On the second point: the players share the blame too, absolutely they do. On an individual level: if Naismith scores a 1-on-1 with Serbia, or if Adam does his job in Cardiff, we have more points on the board and are in a healthier position. More importantly, when established internationalists and Premiership players can't keep possession and make simple passes (as was the case for most of the first half last night) then they can't (and to be fair didn't try to) hide behind the manager for that.

 

None of which is to absolve Levein from his share of the blame.

 

At no point in my rant did I mention 'Flethcer'.

 

You said, "if Naismith scores a 1-on-1 with Serbia, or if Adam does his job in Cardiff, we have more points on the board", you forgot 'if the linesman didn't chalk off Steven Fletchers' perfectly good goal against Wales we could have more points', but who knows maybe Wales would have won 3-2, maybe we'd have won 4-0, we'll never know, so there is no point in using hypothetical 'ifs'. The fact is Levein as a Manager is useless, and players missing one-on-ones, linesmen not doing their job, etcetera, is just papering over the obvious monumental cracks.

 

[Spot Ton]

If you want a short term fix then Levein should be sacked and get some other quick fix merchant to come and manage the team.

If you want to see Scotland prosper on the international stage then you have to give him more time. He has put in place the changes required to see Scotland prosper in 5 to 10 years. Any changes now could delay our progression.

 

I want to go to a major tournament and see Scotland succeed. Right now we don't have the players with the technical ability to do that. The changes being made will change all that and we will see a vast improvement.

[tommydoc]

Ehhh .. Gordon, Fletcher, and McGregor were spot on. If we went out and attacked Belgium from the first minute it'd have been a double figures demolition.

Looking at last night's game as the moment we gave up hopes of qualification is stupid - no reasonable, sane person would expect us to get a result away against that Belgium side. It was lost in the first 3 games, last night is almost irrelevant.

 

I'm not saying we should have attacked Belgium, or any other team in the Group from the first minute. But, to let the opposition have the ball, unchallenged, until 25 yards from our goal-line is just ridiculous. That's Leveins' philosophy, and it means that we are on the back foot from the first minute. Our midfield should be snapping at the heels of their midfield, wherever they have the ball, and forcing them into mistakes. We sit back, and invite them on. Whose fault is that? Not the players, it's the Manager who is telling them to do it.

[SpoonTon]

Forget Strachan, a guy who has walked away in a huff from almost every job he's been in when the pressure mounts. He was also totally clueless when he was in charge of Celtic in Europe, a backward step imo.

 

Strachan twice took Celtic to the last 16 in the CL. One year they only lost to the eventual champions Milan on an extra time goal by Kaka. They beat teams like Milan, Man Utd, Shakhtar Donetsk and Benfica (twice) in the CL under Strachan.

 

That's far from being totally clueless.

 

He's had his ups and downs as a manager, but he's far more qualified to do the job that Levein IMO. I'd be happy enough if Strachan was appointed, same with Smith or McLeish.

[cmdc]

Forget Strachan, a guy who has walked away in a huff from almost every job he's been in when the pressure mounts. He was also totally clueless when he was in charge of Celtic in Europe, a backward step imo.

 

Eh? Strachan twice took Celtic to the last 16 of the CL, on one occasion taking AC Milan to extra-time in that round. His European record was excellent.

 

Strachan has a good record in the Premiership for the most part, and a terrific record with Celtic. He was less successful in the Championship, but overall he has a very decent record, has managed good players, in and been a success in a high pressure job. For me he is the obvious choice.

 

[cmdc]

At no point in my rant did I mention 'Flethcer'.

 

You said, "if Naismith scores a 1-on-1 with Serbia, or if Adam does his job in Cardiff, we have more points on the board", you forgot 'if the linesman didn't chalk off Steven Fletchers' perfectly good goal against Wales we could have more points', but who knows maybe Wales would have won 3-2, maybe we'd have won 4-0, we'll never know, so there is no point in using hypothetical 'ifs'. The fact is Levein as a Manager is useless, and players missing one-on-ones, linesmen not doing their job, etcetera, is just papering over the obvious monumental cracks.

 

Yeah but Fletcher said the same thing that you're on about. You're right - ifs and buts - but my general point is that the players have fallen short, and whilst some of that is to do with the manager, some of it (Adam's piss poor efforts against Bale, for example) clearly is not.

[cmdc]

I'm not saying we should have attacked Belgium, or any other team in the Group from the first minute. But, to let the opposition have the ball, unchallenged, until 25 yards from our goal-line is just ridiculous. That's Leveins' philosophy, and it means that we are on the back foot from the first minute. Our midfield should be snapping at the heels of their midfield, wherever they have the ball, and forcing them into mistakes. We sit back, and invite them on. Whose fault is that? Not the players, it's the Manager who is telling them to do it.

 

Well, that depends. If we have the players to play that way, then yeah - but McArthur was well off the pace, and Fletcher struggled. Had we pressed them in the way you suggest, there's a very real possibility they'd have passed it around us with ease and left us completely exposed (as we were on the few occasions that we did push on).

[irnbru]

If you want to see Scotland prosper on the international stage then you have to give him more time. He has put in place the changes required to see Scotland prosper in 5 to 10 years. Any changes now could delay our progression.

 

His job inst to get a team winning in 5-10 years - it is to get the best of resources available now.

[etta crouTON]

Well, that depends. If we have the players to play that way, then yeah - but McArthur was well off the pace, and Fletcher struggled. Had we pressed them in the way you suggest, there's a very real possibility they'd have passed it around us with ease and left us completely exposed (as we were on the few occasions that we did push on).

Therein lies the problem. It'll all be sorted once Mr. Salmond is crowned King

[irnbru]

Yeah but Fletcher said the same thing that you're on about. You're right - ifs and buts - but my general point is that the players have fallen short, and whilst some of that is to do with the manager, some of it (Adam's piss poor efforts against Bale, for example) clearly is not.

 

I know what you're saying but the buck has to stop at the manager. For example, although Adam was to blame if we wanted to have someone sitting to protect the defence we should have had McArthur on instead.

 

He makes the wrong choices more often than not and even at that they are normally too late.

 

 

[The Bewilderedbeast]

On the other hand we can step up the following campaigns:

 

Levein for Blackburn

Levein for Burnley

Levein for Bolton

 

 

Or Levein on a jet plane! But not for Rio!

[EanieMeany]

On the subject of players' culpability, Levein has well and truly dug his own grave on that front. He's the guy proclaiming that we have this brilliant group of players, he's the deranged lunatic who announced he'd take James ****in Morrisson over Landon Donovan any day of the week, so he can hardly have any excuses about the resources he has available.

 

And nor should he. Despite the continued presence of god-awful players like Morrisson, we actually do have a reasonable enough squad of players, there is no way on this earth Levein has utilised them in anything approaching a competent manner.

 

The point about the attitude of Fletcher and McGregor was spot on. The attitude of "we'll win by not losing" is ridiculous, it's a mentality of fear that Levein has fostered with his approach to games. Fine, you can't go playing four forwards in every away game, but you do have to have to be brave and you have to be aggressive or you'll get exactly what we got last night. We aren't even defending well, you don't see diddy teams getting pulled about by genuine top-class teams (Belgium most certainly aren't one of those) the way we did. We'd have got hammered if we had opened up? So ****in what, exactly? It was sheer dumb luck that prevented a result to match the humiliation of the performance last night. You will never, ever win a game with the set-up we had last night. Levein can't set out a team to win, he can't set out one to frustrate, he can't set out one to park the bus.

 

The Levein regime has been an unmitigated disaster from start to finish.