General Football - Weird Results And Other Things Worth Sharing

[TRVMP]

On 4/29/2018 at 7:05 PM, TRVMP said:

 

Was talking to my wife about that earlier, in fact, the idea of a job where - aside from the money - there's no real upside. He's vanishingly unlikely to win a title, he's got a job for life where he is, expectations of some fans are still to challenge when it's unrealistic against Celtic's resources, it's a pressure-cooker environment even moreso than Merseyside... but he might just have that spark of foolhardy ambition to go for it.

(As you can tell, I'm re-reading the early pages of this thread.)

What a difference three years make. This was a post about the 'Espanyolification' of Rangers - just getting humped over and over as Celtic compounded their Champions League money to become the sole force in Scottish football for years to come. You have to hand it to Gerrard - yes, Celtic imploded this season, but Rangers still had to be in shape to take advantage of it. That they did, and they had a good European run as well.

And there's me in this thread saying they needed a Tony Pulis to play the percentages.

[TRVMP]

A dodgy penalty at the other end this time. Uruguayan striker Jonathan Rodriguez - a real talisman, finally hitting form outside of his country - equalizes for Cruz Azul. Not a well-placed penalty but of sufficient power to beat Guillermo Ochoa (formerly of Ajaccio but coming up on ten non-consecutive seasons with CFA - who, by the way, have one of the best goalie 'taps' in football).

And it's full time. That's what Cruz Azul needed for the easier "bracket" in the playoffs. They have two home games left, against hopeless San Luis and slightly-less-hopeless Tijuana. America face a short trip to strong but off-form Toluca and then a minor derby with struggling Pumas UNAM, who have managed just ten goals in their 14 Clausura games so far. The cementeros are surely favorites going into the finals.

In the midst of all this, both teams have CONCACAF Champions League duty. Cruz Azul will seek leave to travel to Toronto next week for their first leg; America head to Portland, where presumably the local scallies will ask for their help committing arson on various federal buildings and immolating law enforcement and bystanders, these pursuits being considered harmless pastimes in the lower Willamette Valley. (I've spent quite a lot of time in Portland and environs over the last 15 years due to family connections, and it's striking how quickly it's changed. It was previously a working-class city with a slightly gritty edge, but one where you could walk literally anywhere at any time without problems and enjoy the fresh air. It's now precisely none of these things. It's a bizarre open-air museum of white American neuroses.)

 

[pink_panther]

If you rename the "Champions" league to what it really is then fine

[Cet Homme Charmant]

10 hours ago, TRVMP said:

A dodgy penalty at the other end this time. Uruguayan striker Jonathan Rodriguez - a real talisman, finally hitting form outside of his country - equalizes for Cruz Azul. Not a well-placed penalty but of sufficient power to beat Guillermo Ochoa (formerly of Ajaccio but coming up on ten non-consecutive seasons with CFA - who, by the way, have one of the best goalie 'taps' in football).

And it's full time. That's what Cruz Azul needed for the easier "bracket" in the playoffs. They have two home games left, against hopeless San Luis and slightly-less-hopeless Tijuana. America face a short trip to strong but off-form Toluca and then a minor derby with struggling Pumas UNAM, who have managed just ten goals in their 14 Clausura games so far. The cementeros are surely favorites going into the finals.

In the midst of all this, both teams have CONCACAF Champions League duty. Cruz Azul will seek leave to travel to Toronto next week for their first leg; America head to Portland, where presumably the local scallies will ask for their help committing arson on various federal buildings and immolating law enforcement and bystanders, these pursuits being considered harmless pastimes in the lower Willamette Valley. (I've spent quite a lot of time in Portland and environs over the last 15 years due to family connections, and it's striking how quickly it's changed. It was previously a working-class city with a slightly gritty edge, but one where you could walk literally anywhere at any time without problems and enjoy the fresh air. It's now precisely none of these things. It's a bizarre open-air museum of white American neuroses.)

 

In the early-to-mid noughties I used to travel regularly to Tualatin just outside Portland for work, and I have to say I never really liked Portland. That may have been due to the fact it was always in the winter months I visited and the weather make Greenock seem like a place with not as much rain as it has. I was going to say the Sahara desert but that would have been over-egging the pudding somewhat.

[TRVMP]

2 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

In the early-to-mid noughties I used to travel regularly to Tualatin just outside Portland for work, and I have to say I never really liked Portland. That may have been due to the fact it was always in the winter months I visited and the weather make Greenock seem like a place with not as much rain as it has. I was going to say the Sahara desert but that would have been over-egging the pudding somewhat.

This is fair - it was (and to an extent is) utterly glorious in the sunny months but the winters of Pacific Northwest are, as we'd put it, dreich. It's not even the kind of dramatic cold or rain that more exotic places yet. It's just a wet dishtowel over the place for weeks at a time.

The hiking around the Colombia River, and also the Mount Hood area, remains superb. Even day hikes can cover a lot of elevation and produce some superb views. 

[capitanus]

Some scare stories of the 'top six' clubs in English Football leaving to join a breakaway European Super League.

How long before you hear the stories of two clubs in Scotland making noises about doing the same along with the shrieks of indignation from the same two when they are told nobody wants them to join.  

Watch this space.

[TRVMP]

6 hours ago, pink_panther said:

If you rename the "Champions" league to what it really is then fine

Nah, we're keeping the name and the ace theme song. Sorry that it's not as gripping as Hammarby against Levski Sofia.

[capitanus]

interesting comments by Gary Neville:

 

[TRVMP]

Does he think he won't get the midweek gig if the ESL kicks off?

[Toby]

1 hour ago, capitanus said:

interesting comments by Gary Neville:

 

Quite refreshing to see a pudit slaughtering big clubs for looking outwith the domestic leagues that have served them so well for over a century. Imagine the completely hypothetical scenario of a couple of Scotland's biggest clubs wanting to join a higher profile league and the condemnation our media would* give them?

*Wouldn't. It would be the fault of the other clubs in this country for being too small, too shit and too skint and holding the bigger clubs back.

[capitanus]

20 minutes ago, Toby said:

Quite refreshing to see a pudit slaughtering big clubs for looking outwith the domestic leagues that have served them so well for over a century. Imagine the completely hypothetical scenario of a couple of Scotland's biggest clubs wanting to join a higher profile league and the condemnation our media would* give them?

*Wouldn't. It would be the fault of the other clubs in this country for being too small, too shit and too skint and holding the bigger clubs back.

Gary Neville is easily the most intelligent and the most interesting pundit doing the rounds nowadays.  Everything he says is spot on, honest, articulate as well as being head and shoulders above the other ex footballers chancing their arm at punditry nowadays.

[TRVMP]

I mean, it's gonna happen eventually. UEFA could have got ahead of it but decided not to.

[Toby]

8 hours ago, TRVMP said:

I mean, it's gonna happen eventually. UEFA could have got ahead of it but decided not to.

It happened 29 years ago when UEFA formed the Champions League- they did get ahead of it but the Champions League became such a monster that it’s bigger clubs got greedier and greedier. These clubs are now too big and too powerful for them to challenge, and UEFA are partly culpable for that.

I think it’s inevitable that this would’ve happened anyway, whether UEFA wanted it to or not. It’s been the result of a culmination of events over the last generation- satellite TV, the internet, Hillsborough, the move to all seater stadia, the Premier League, The Champions League, the collapse of the Soviet Union and the emergence of the oligarchs, even the drama of Arsenal’s title win at Anfield in 1989.

It’s not really much different from the formation of the Premier League and the SPL- and let’s remember our own club were in favour of breaking away from the SFL to form SPL 2 after about a year back in the First Division. This happens at every level.

Whilst Neville’s a good listen, there’s a hint of irony in an employee of Rupert Murdoch and Sky bemoaning the greed of these clubs when Sky have facilitated their growth to such an extent that they’ve become these horrible behemoths.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

32 minutes ago, Toby said:

Whilst Neville’s a good listen, there’s a hint of irony in an employee of Rupert Murdoch and Sky bemoaning the greed of these clubs when Sky have facilitated their growth to such an extent that they’ve become these horrible behemoths.

This. I'd go further though and call it hypocrisy.

Same goes for the Premier League, crocodile tears from them as well given that they're the ones who kickstarted the whole power shift towards the top handful of clubs, and in turn created the culture of greed and entitlement that's led us to where we are now. 

[Toby]

2 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

This. I'd go further though and call it hypocrisy.

Same goes for the Premier League, crocodile tears from them as well given that they're the ones who kickstarted the whole power shift towards the top handful of clubs, and in turn created the culture of greed and entitlement that's led us to where we are now. 

Not going to lie, I’m at pains to get torn into Neville because I like him and think it’s pushing the boundaries to be accusing him personally of hypocrisy because of the actions of his employers. I despise my own employers, although I’m perhaps not in the position he is to be so choosy about who pays my wages.

But aye, there aren’t many who wouldn’t jump at the chance of pocketing a few extra quid and leaving the paupers to fight over the scraps. It’s been done for years, probably since shared gates for league games were scrapped and will continue to be done in the future. It’s just more obvious now.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

14 minutes ago, Toby said:

Not going to lie, I’m at pains to get torn into Neville because I like him and think it’s pushing the boundaries to be accusing him personally of hypocrisy because of the actions of his employers. I despise my own employers, although I’m perhaps not in the position he is to be so choosy about who pays my wages.

But aye, there aren’t many who wouldn’t jump at the chance of pocketing a few extra quid and leaving the paupers to fight over the scraps. It’s been done for years, probably since shared gates for league games were scrapped and will continue to be done in the future. It’s just more obvious now.

I wasn't meaning to single out Nelville, it was directed at all Sky Sports pundits, and perhaps to call it hypocrisy was too strong. But let's just say I think Sky Sports pundits have a bit of a brass neck taking the high moral ground on this one, since their employer played a huge part in creating the current culture of greed and division. And as therefore they've contributed to Sky Sports becoming so powerful and influential, they're in fact bumping their gums about a problem they helped to create. 

[TRVMP]

While I don't necessarily disagree with the above, people tend to forget that the Football League (and the Scottish Football League, for that matter) were just as regressive, in fact more so. True, they were far less unequal in their finances. But for decades, there was no way in or out of either league except by election. And the Premier League, to give it a minimal amount of credit, has never wavered from three relegation spots. It's definitely true that neither of the old leagues managed to unleash a Sky Sports-style leviathan but in terms of competitive integrity, the PL is actually far better than its predecessor, the Football League.

Toby's right, this happens at every level. There always reaches a point where you have to pull the ladder up. I'd be against a league system where we have to share a lot of proceeds with Port Glasgow and Greenock Juniors. Some proceeds - fine. The bigger clubs should commensurately pay more, much in the way that marginal tax rates work. But a system that treats these three clubs as equals is frankly unacceptable, and I can see why Manchester United feel the same way about Burnley.

[capitanus]

I don't think this elite superleague is inevitable - the fact that the big clubs in Germany - most notably Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund - are not involved would suggest that it's not all the top clubs in Europe wish to be involved in this.  The same for the top clubs in France, Portugal, Turkey, Russia and the Netherlands.

One thing that grates with me is all these overseas owners in the British game - mostly those from the Middle East and the old Soviet Bloc - they've ruined it.  What's going to happen to Man City when their rich owners face difficult times or get bored with Football?  Ditto Chelsea and several other clubs.   It's the same old story that not everyone who rocks up at a football club with a big bank balance has the club or the game's best interests at heart.

Edited April 19, 2021 by capitanus

[Hej]

Why anyone would welcome this is beyond me. Goes against the entire ethos of football in Europe.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Hej

[capitanus]

It's merely a negotiation tactic between the cartel/clique of the most powerful clubs vs. UEFA which has backfired spectacularly on them.  There are no German clubs, no Ajax, no Benfica, no PSG, Marseille or Sevilla involved - without whom the whole idea seems to lack legitimacy.  

One thing that this episode has brought to the attention of the masses is that English Football's aristocracy - it's proper elite - Arsenal, Man United and Liverpool - as well as it's old money London gentleman's club, Tottenham Hotspur, all lack the same class that their nouveau riche counterparts, Manchester City and the KGB-funded Chelsea FC also demonstrate on a regular basis.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by capitanus