Jump to content


Photo

IndyRef 2


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
63 replies to this topic

Poll: IndyRef (32 member(s) have cast votes)

How did you vote in September 2014?

  1. Yes (24 votes [75.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.00%

  2. No (8 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

How would you vote in a second referendum?

  1. Yes (25 votes [78.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.12%

  2. No (7 votes [21.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.88%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 11:40 AM

I don't disagree with that, but again it comes down to what we're measuring against. Do we look down the road and say "well, we're better than that" or do we set our sights higher? It's certainly true that the SNP have done a better job than the car-crash that is Westminster, but if you want to sit the middle of the road merely ticking over then a car-crash you will inevitable become embroiled in one way or the other.

 

There's a whole host of things that can be done within Holyrood's remit that could make a big difference and move us towards the kind of country that any vision of independence should be striving for, but Sturgeon seems set on a "minimal disruption" path. Again, you won't convince people that it's worth the risk if you're not actively showing them a significantly different alternative - for the polls not to have shifted in any substantial, material way in the face of a monumentally vicious, incompetent Tory government is a failure, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

Plodding on as we are, on any front isn't really suitable for anyone. 

I could be convinced, but i very much agree with the above. I'm looking for that other alternative. 


TIME FOR CHANGE!


#22 GiGi

GiGi

    Animal Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 17209 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 11:47 AM

I don't disagree with that, but again it comes down to what we're measuring against. Do we look down the road and say "well, we're better than that" or do we set our sights higher? It's certainly true that the SNP have done a better job than the car-crash that is Westminster, but if you want to sit the middle of the road merely ticking over then a car-crash you will inevitable become embroiled in one way or the other.

 

There's a whole host of things that can be done within Holyrood's remit that could make a big difference and move us towards the kind of country that any vision of independence should be striving for, but Sturgeon seems set on a "minimal disruption" path. Again, you won't convince people that it's worth the risk if you're not actively showing them a significantly different alternative - for the polls not to have shifted in any substantial, material way in the face of a monumentally vicious, incompetent Tory government is a failure, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

Plodding on as we are, on any front isn't really suitable for anyone. 

 

Agreed they should do more to convince people Indy is the way forward. But then in an Independent Scotland are no longer the only option. At the moment they are the means of gaining Independence then fast forward 10 years who knows what our own government, elected only by us, would look like? 

 

Regardless of SNP's as-yet lukewarm approach I'm still convinced Indy is the right answer to the question, just to no longer be shackled to an archaic political boys club who don't like having us there anyway. Scotland is just too vastly different as a county and electorate to ever get the country we want while the two Tory parties are in power and our population is too small. Brexit is the best demonstration yet as to why we don't need English (and Welsh and NI) voters dictating our future to us. 


 

Peter Weatherson is the greatest player since Ritchie, and should be assigned 'chairman for life' 


onsP5NR.jpg

#23 vikingTON

vikingTON

    Award-winning fact-based analysis

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19420 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 11:51 AM

Not really, Boss. 

 

Yes really. What with that post having nothing to do with what was quoted and also being completely incomprehensible nonsense, it's the definition of 'word salad'.

 

Perhaps you should sit this one out then until a Tory goon hands you another 'zinger' to try and get back in the game. 

 

The recent polls don't paint a very good picture for you to be honest. 

 

 

The only recent polls that I've seen show your beloved Scottish Unionists struggling to muster 10% support ahead of the imminent European elections. Which is as glorious a picture as Falkirk getting relegated.
 
Thanks for playing anyway champ. 
 

b1a5e29f-5ad6-4b4a-b24c-c11112db682b.thu


The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#24 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 11:53 AM

Nonsense, but if it makes you feel better. 


TIME FOR CHANGE!


#25 vikingTON

vikingTON

    Award-winning fact-based analysis

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19420 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:02 PM

I think you'll find that those are Rafa Benitez approved facts:

 

YouGov April 18 European Election (Scotland) - SNP 42%, Greens 13%, Labour 11%, Conservatives 10%, Brexit Party 9%, Liberal Democrats 7%, UKIP 6%, Change UK 4%

 

YouGov April 17 European Election (Scotland) - SNP 35%, Labour 16%, Greens 13%, Brexit Party 13%, Conservatives 10%, Liberal Democrats 5%, UKIP 4%, Change UK 3%

 

YouGov April 14 European Election (Scotland) - SNP 49%, Conservatives 12%, Labour 11%, Brexit Party 8%, Liberal Democrats 7%, UKIP 5%, Greens 3%, Change UK 3%

 

Taking lectures from the Staunch Unionist Party on what the people of Scotland actually want their government to do is like taking advice from Ray McKinnon on how to avoid relegation. 


The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#26 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:04 PM

What is the current stomach for independence in the polls, champ?

 

Pipe doon. 


TIME FOR CHANGE!


#27 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:05 PM

There's a difference between general elections and a straight shoot out for Yes vs No. 

 

Duh. 


TIME FOR CHANGE!


#28 Cappiecat 1.2

Cappiecat 1.2

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:08 PM

The SNP government have been a very effective bulwark against the worst of the Tories savage austerity measures. No other party in Scotland would have had the balls to successfully take them on.

If we voted for independence post Brexit, our entry negotiations with the EU won't be simple. What would we do about the English backstop? I can't see us having a 'hard border' with England.

Indyref2 should happen, once the true mess of post Brexit Britain becomes apparent, we should be ready to take control of our own country.

#29 vikingTON

vikingTON

    Award-winning fact-based analysis

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19420 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:14 PM

What is the current stomach for independence in the polls, champ?

 

Pipe doon. 

 

There haven't been any 'recent polls on independence'. Not that this has stopped you twice claiming that there have been, in a desperate attempt to convince someone - anyone - that it's not going to happen. 

 

There's a difference between general elections and a straight shoot out for Yes vs No. 

 

Duh. 

 

No-one was actually talking about a 'general election' champ. Like I said, it's best that you just sit this one out until you find another, absolutely shite party line to parrot. 


The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#30 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:17 PM

There haven't been any 'recent polls on independence'. Not that this has stopped you twice claiming that there have been, in a desperate attempt to convince someone - anyone - that it's not going to happen. 

 

 

No-one was actually talking about a 'general election' champ. Like I said, it's best that you just sit this one out until you find another, absolutely s***e party line to parrot. 

Here's a sample for your perusal. Suspect you'll dismiss it as "word salad" so won't bother reading or entertaining your response. 

 

http://whatscotlandt...ld-now-ask#line


TIME FOR CHANGE!


#31 Cappiecat 1.2

Cappiecat 1.2

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:40 PM

Here's a sample for your perusal. Suspect you'll dismiss it as "word salad" so won't bother reading or entertaining your response.

http://whatscotlandt...ld-now-ask#line


I read it. It completely vindicates VT's point.
That survey result was from information gathered between June-Sept 2016.

#32 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:50 PM

"According to results from the recent Survation poll (27 March 2019)......"


TIME FOR CHANGE!


#33 vikingTON

vikingTON

    Award-winning fact-based analysis

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19420 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:10 PM

Here's a sample for your perusal. Suspect you'll dismiss it as "word salad" so won't bother reading or entertaining your response. 

 

http://whatscotlandt...ld-now-ask#line

 

The polling data used on the above site (and graph) ends in December 2018, as can be seen under the 'notes and methodology...' section. This is incredibly basic stuff tbh. 

 

"According to results from the recent Survation poll (27 March 2019)......"

 

 

 

A poll that is mentioned only by a commentor and is not included in the 'sample' that you provided because it didn't actually use the standard referendum question and so is essentially useless. 

 

Thanks for playing anyway. 


The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#34 TONofmemories

TONofmemories

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7980 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 07:09 PM

^^ can't accept hes wrong. Sad

TIME FOR CHANGE!


#35 TheGoon

TheGoon

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5298 posts

Posted 25 April 2019 - 07:52 PM

The second indy campaign should be a lot more about actually informing those that are undecided rather than alienating them. The facts are all there, and as long as there isn’t a back of a fag packet economic plan, it shouldn’t be too difficult to relay the information. There were many positives from the first campaign but lots that could’ve and will need to be done better.

That being said, how in god’s name can anyone look at the current situation the UK is in and still want to be shackled to it? I can understand having reservations, but to rule it out entirely when we’re deep in the fucking shit is unbelievable to me. Folk need to learn to separate it from the SNP as well. Yes it’s what their party exists for but that is in no way what independence is about. I disagree with a lot of their policies and I am by no means a diehard SNP supporter (I’d rather jump off a cliff than vote for the current Labour incarnation mind) but it simply isn’t all about them, a worrying amount of folk can’t seem to comprehend that.

If you’re not the staunchest of staunch and still oppose even the idea of another referendum I really do not know what to say to you.

#36 vikingTON

vikingTON

    Award-winning fact-based analysis

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19420 posts

Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:04 AM

^^ can't accept hes wrong. Sad


^^^ didn’t read basic information so made an arse of himself yet again

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#37 Hej

Hej

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 854 posts

Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:12 AM

The second indy campaign should be a lot more about actually informing those that are undecided rather than alienating them. The facts are all there, and as long as there isn’t a back of a fag packet economic plan, it shouldn’t be too difficult to relay the information. There were many positives from the first campaign but lots that could’ve and will need to be done better.

I feel currency will be a major issue again this time. Imperative that they manage to campaign a lot better on it this time. 


Edited by Hej, 26 April 2019 - 11:12 AM.


#38 cmdc

cmdc

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5044 posts

Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:16 PM

Sturgeon, more than Salmond, has been fairly bold in her approach to the limits of devolution. Despite having next to no powers on employment law and equalities what she has done with the little power that she does have has been held up as an example to other nations but it sits extremely close to the limit of what’s lawful (and arguably could be held to be unlawful if tested in court) and unions have rightly been broadly supportive of that. On Brexit she has pushed to the limits of devolution in introducing a rival Brexit Bill despite the Presiding Officer and the Advocate General taking a different view - and the Supreme Court upheld the Scottish Government’s position. On social, economic and environmental rights she’s made a firm commitment to legislate there - and put together a really excellent advisory team to fill in the gaps - despite the UK Government’s position being to roll back the rights that we already have never mind to expand on them. On fracking the Scottish Government has gone as far as it possibly can in achieving a de facto ban - and survived a court challenge on it. On children’s rights the Named Person scheme was groundbreaking but ultimately has been (in my opinion, wrongly) delayed by the Supreme Court (indicating, again, a push to the limits of what can lawfully be done). And on Brexit overall I would say that Sturgeon and Carwyn Jones have been impressive while May has been inept and Corbyn has shown to be more nationalist than even the nationalist parties, sadly at the cost of his socialism.

There are arguments to be had about whether their policies on fracking, named persons and so on are good policies but I think the Scottish Government has (and so has the Welsh Government, eg on Trade Union rights) been willing to push at the limits of its powers. And more often than not has been backed by the courts when it has done so.

Edited by cmdc, 26 April 2019 - 01:26 PM.


#39 Cappiecat 1.2

Cappiecat 1.2

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 206 posts

Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:41 PM

This poll suggests that only 1in5 want another referendum and that in the event of one the no vote would win by a bigger margin than last time.

Can anyone stomach the idea of another referendum this soon?

https://www.bloomber...ence-referendum

#40 TheGoon

TheGoon

    GMFC Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5298 posts

Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:44 PM

This poll suggests that only 1in5 want another referendum and that in the event of one the no vote would win by a bigger margin than last time.

Can anyone stomach the idea of another referendum this soon?

https://www.bloomber...ence-referendum


Yes. Before the effects of Brexit begin to cripple us.