Arrogance Of The Highest Order.

[TRVMP]

I'm not denying the credibility of anyone in this thread, but I'm wondering why on earth those of us who don't have the "inside track" are sometimes belittled by those who do?

 

Basically, how can I come to the same conclusions if I'm not equipped with the facts? If I'm gullible (and I may well be) it's not down to any delusion, I'm not actively trying to avoid the truth... it's because I don't know where the facts are. I care deeply about GMFC and want to know that it's in safe hands for the future. At present, I have the following opinions:

 

I don't believe everything that DDF Rae says unconditionally. At the Rally in December I know that a few things were said that don't really stand up to close scrutiny (these have mostly been discussed on the board and in fact one of them was even brought up at the same meeting.) Despite that, I do think that, overall, he and Golden Casket have done right by the club. Not 100% right, but right enough in that there's been money put into the club (see Bryan's reply), the stadium is upgraded, we're paying decent wages... things are far from perfect but I just don't see how the club is in serious jeopardy. Others may know and/or think differently but until I'm privy to the same information that they are, how can I possibly come to the same conclusion?

 

Edit: I speak as a fan and not as a moderator here. So please, if anyone's tempted to call this differently, plaese don't.

[upaclose]

And would the "lazy 20 stone, unwashed redhead, a typical socialist who wouldn't know what a day’s work was if it bit him on the erse" please post their photo in profile to see if this description stands up to scrutiny?

 

 

[lazy_ar*e_student]

The Trust isn't blameless in this either, as a fans organisation we are represented at board level. If this outlet isn't being used then poor communication with the punters can't only be blamed on the Raes.

I disagree with that comment. I am not a member of the trust, but surely if you're talking of 'blame' then surely it should be at the trusts representative on the board.

 

EDIT

Sorry I hadn't read that correctly Cawston, but I agree, if there is a problem with communication then the trust should take it up with their representative.

[VaderTON]

And would the "lazy 20 stone, unwashed redhead, a typical socialist who wouldn't know what a day’s work was if it bit him on the erse" please post their photo in profile to see if this description stands up to scrutiny?

 

 

 

I`ve been tryin to figure that oot since last night, any clues Barbarossa?

[Guest midTONs]

I disagree with that comment. I am not a member of the trust, but surely if you're talking of 'blame' then surely it should be at the trusts representative on the board.

 

 

lazy I'm a trust member and have been since the beginning, I have also been dismayed by the lack of communication from the trust to it's members and the support on a whole.

[Stuart Duncan]

Just to answer some of the points raised in previous posts.

 

1. The Supporters' Trust did not agree to pay of any debt left by Hugh Scott, in particular the Football Trust debt, our Loan Fund members did make a financial contribution towards the purchase of the club which was the start of our shareholding in the club and our representation on the Board.

 

2. We did increase our shareholding dramatically when DDFR had the share issue to help clear some of the debt that had been building due to the investments made in the club after DDFR took over. That gave us our 8.4% shareholding (second biggest shareholder in the club) again funded by our Loan Note members.

 

3. I agree with the statement "that as fans we truly are the custodians of the club" and that " to raise funds via the Supporters Trust and eventually buy a majority shareholding in the club" is the way forward for all community clubs. Sadly DDFR will not be around for ever and neither will his heirs. Fans are the only constant at any football club.

I have no doubt this will be extremely difficult to achieve but not impossible, nothings impossible it just requires people with imagination and a willingness to get involved and make it happen. Financial hurdle aside, we do have, among the Morton support, people who are more than capable of running Morton Football Club of that there is no doubt.

 

4. "Since we have been saved we may all have become a little complacent" Agreed, to many supporters will do nothing until the next crisis and then ask what the Trust are doing about it. There will be a crisis in the future if we don't do anything today to prepare for the day when the Rae family are no longer involved at Cappielow.

 

 

5. " The Trust isn't blameless in this either, as a fans organisation we are represented at board level. If this outlet isn't being used then poor communication with the punters can't only be blamed on the Rae's"

 

Jim McColl represents the members of the Supporters' Trust on the Board of Greenock Morton Football Club. He does not represent every Morton supporter. Members of the Supporters' Trust are more than welcome to make there views know to us, which they have done on occasions over the past 5 years, which we (Jim) in turn can put those views forward at Morton board meetings. We don't guarantee they will get the answer they like but we can put their view across.

 

[Rhubarb Mess]

Donkey Dave, PM sent.

 

 

 

I`ve been tryin to figure that oot since last night, any clues Barbarossa?

 

 

Can't comment, if you look at my original post it was edited by request, i'm afraid I have to leave it there.

[Boozehound]

Where did all this come from? Did I miss something over the last few days?

[Rhubarb Mess]

Where did all this come from? Did I miss something over the last few days?

 

 

I've been stirring the soup boozy.

[The Bobby McMahon Fan Club]

I have shares in Morton, but I've still paid to watch games at Man City, Rangers, Celtic, Partick Thistle, Queens Park and even Pollok Juniors. Just because someone gives another team cash, doesn't mean that they are any less committed to Morton - look at Mileson handing out cash left right and centre to supporters' trusts.

 

There is no doubt whatsoever that those in charge of the club are committed to the long term. DDF doesn't come up with all the ideas you know. the biggest threat to Morton is if Golden Casket went bankrupt (unlikely in the forseeable future), then we'd be really f#$@ed as any administrator of Golden Casket would likely call in the debts. Therefore - best way to keep Morton going - keep buying those sweeties.

 

It is clear to me that whilst fans could have the odd gripe as to how things are run, nothing much is wrong. Barbarossa I think must've been sacked at the sweetie factory or something to have such big gripes.

[Rhubarb Mess]

Never been sacked from anywhere in my life.

I have friends who work down in 's***holes' (their words, not mine).

Bullying, continious breaches of Health and Safety, these are some of the things that employees complain about, but of course i'm not talking about any local company in particular, just one or two.

 

Whoopy doo Bobby, you have shares in Morton.

I too have been to many clubs ground, but one thing that doesn't change is that I am a Morton supporter.

 

Not allowed to eat sweeties, have to watch my figure.

[Kaney]

You all need to CHILL THE F*CK RIGHT OUT!!

 

Everytime I come to the board all I hear is whining an bitching, its hella f*cking annoying.

 

Have a joint, whatever, just chill.

 

What the hell differece does it make which way the stripes or hoops are? Its still blue and white.

 

What the hell difference does it make if the site gets updated or not? This one is fine!

 

 

All these things you put to such high regard, when in all reality, none of it really f*cking matters. Why does everyone need to be so negative in this place.

 

It gets on my tits cause all I care about is Morton doing the business on the park, we aint seen them play a game this season yet and everybody is saying "Oh we can win but we need more players"

 

To hell with that idea, lets all just chillout, enjoy the matches, and smile for gods sake.

 

 

 

Im kinda under the influcnce so the above might not make sense, I havnt and dont plan on reading over it, hahaha. It sounded ok as i went along, thats enough for me

[lazy_ar*e_student]

You all need to CHILL THE F*CK RIGHT OUT!!

 

Everytime I come to the board all I hear is whining an bitching, its hella f*cking annoying.

 

Have a joint, whatever, just chill.

 

What the hell differece does it make which way the stripes or hoops are? Its still blue and white.

 

What the hell difference does it make if the site gets updated or not? This one is fine!

All these things you put to such high regard, when in all reality, none of it really f*cking matters. Why does everyone need to be so negative in this place.

 

It gets on my tits cause all I care about is Morton doing the business on the park, we aint seen them play a game this season yet and everybody is saying "Oh we can win but we need more players"

 

To hell with that idea, lets all just chillout, enjoy the matches, and smile for gods sake.

Im kinda under the influcnce so the above might not make sense, I havnt and dont plan on reading over it, hahaha. It sounded ok as i went along, thats enough for me

Well Mr Rae we thank you for your honesty and openess on the board-

 

[Rhubarb Mess]

But this is great fun

 

Two idle days have been filled with the excellent retorts of the board members.

 

I feckin love it.

 

Have to go now, beer calls, keep em comin, I hope we get a 3rd day out of it tomorrow.

[Rhubarb Mess]

Well Mr Rae we thank you for your honesty and openess on the board-

 

 

Quality.

[The Bobby McMahon Fan Club]

You all need to CHILL THE F*CK RIGHT OUT!!

 

Everytime I come to the board all I hear is whining an bitching, its hella f*cking annoying.

 

Have a joint, whatever, just chill.

 

What the hell differece does it make which way the stripes or hoops are? Its still blue and white.

 

What the hell difference does it make if the site gets updated or not? This one is fine!

All these things you put to such high regard, when in all reality, none of it really f*cking matters. Why does everyone need to be so negative in this place.

 

It gets on my tits cause all I care about is Morton doing the business on the park, we aint seen them play a game this season yet and everybody is saying "Oh we can win but we need more players"

 

To hell with that idea, lets all just chillout, enjoy the matches, and smile for gods sake.

Im kinda under the influcnce so the above might not make sense, I havnt and dont plan on reading over it, hahaha. It sounded ok as i went along, thats enough for me

 

Well said Doogeee!!!

[Tonosaurus]

Main difference between us and Premiership tops will be the batch sizes we order from suppliers, they buy in bulk and we can't. We still need to make some kind of profit so they might be a couple of pounds dearer.

 

Regarding the season tickets, I don't like the fact that we're stuck in this league again but we are where we are. Fact is the costs of fuel etc. have gone up considerably the past year, this has to be recovered somewhere or the debt just rises even more.

 

Well said.

 

I know enough to be worried, but just remain ignorant and enjoy the 'good' times.

 

I reckon you are doing a Willowman here, so I'm not worried! At least the board is worth reading again!

 

I reckon 10% of our core support may have a leaning towards either side of the OF, no more than that.

 

You're doing our support a bit of a dis-service there, mate.

 

Well said

 

 

 

This maybe a bit irrelivant....but has anyone also considered the possiblity that the increase in prices for season tickets and the price of our home/away tops, may be slightly contributory to the factor of the club, or should I say the league, not having a sponsor this season, as Bells pulled out at the end of last season.

 

As for the previous issues mentioned on this thread re; dislike/distrust, of the Rae clan, being at the helm of the TON, I for 1 dont actually mind, I know there are quite a few who do, but this is not an issue that we alone have. There are teams world wide, who have the same minority of fans, who, for one reason or another, dislike to the point of hatred, their club owners, take Man utd, when the fraziers bought them over, point beiong, this is something that will never go away, and doesnt bother me what others think of the chairman/owners, why should it? I am just happy to still br going to Scappa on a saturday to watch the team I grew up watching for over 30yrs, and not look at what could ultimately have been an extension to the ship yard grave yard that,that prick Sc***t promised was on the cards. I mean, christ to say"...I`ll have no problems shuting this club down like the shipyards.."on tv,that was the point were he put the last nail in his coffin.

 

Cheers DDFR for keeping us going, regardless of your mystical background.

 

Well said

 

 

I can forgive people not understanding the ins and outs of company law, corporate finance and insolvency law. Most people don't as these are highly specialist areas. What I do not like is the socialist workers on here spouting complete pish as being the truth when anyone who knows anything about these matters knows their allegations are a figment of their left wing imaginations.

 

Its alleged there is no cost to Dougie in making 'loans' from Golden Casket which will never be repaid. Well:

 

1) The fans certainly helped but, make no mistake about it, Douglas Rae saved Morton and people who say otherwise are ungrateful, blinkered barstewards. Morton was in administration and in the hands of an insolvency practitioner who was going to put the club into liquidation which equals oblivion. Scott had to be paid off as part of the deal to avoid that and there is no way that the fans could have raised the money necessary. Douglas Rae did that and every Morton fan should be eternally grateful to him.

 

2) The Rae family own Golden Casket lock stock and barrel. These irrecoverable loans to finance Morton's losses reduce the value of Golden Casket and therefore Dougies personal wealth.

 

3) It is alleged that Morton is only a tax dodge for the Raes. Again, this displays a complete lack of understanding of accounting or tax law. Firstly a loan to another company is not tax allowable. It might become so if the loan is written off but I not aware that anything has. Some of the loan has been converted to shares - again not tax allowable. What they do get tax relief on is Morton's losses but, the current corporation tax rate is 30% so Golden Casket still suffers the other 70% of the losses.

 

I agree that there are some aspects of the present administration which could be better, especially in terms of communication with the fans, the website and maybe some of the peripheral commercial activities. There have also been a lot of positives such as the refurbishment of Cappielow and maintenance of our full time status. Dougie has shown himself willing to fund player acquisitions whether thats through transfer fees or wages.

 

In short he's not perfect but he has done the major things right and we owe him bigtime for the fact that we still have a club. For me, if he wants us to play in polka dots, thats a small thing and I can't understand people getting so uptight about a football shirt.

 

So those of you who don't like it, feel free to check your back issues of the socialist worker to see if there are any other fantasies you want to make up about running companies. Before you do though, can I respectfully suggest that making facts up to suit the argument does nothing to help people's perception of your IQ.

 

I believe this guy!

 

Quoting saved me writing out my opinions!

 

With regards to the initial complaint, the strip is nice. Who cares if it is hoops?!?!! Until relatively recently, (James Watt College hoops), it has been a mish mash of stripes, arrows and tartans that have made up our home top! We have always retained our white and blue colours. I'll be buying it, looks smart, may not feel great, but who cares; I'd suffer for the Ton

 

[El gofer]

You made the point that I was about to regarding the strip,Tonosorous.

 

From 1989 til 1996 we did not have hoops.

 

During the 60s,from what I can see in the Morton Greats books, we didnt wear hoops.

Yes it is the traditional way of the strip but there are quite a few teams that have varied their strip recently. Dundee United were white strips until the late 60s I think. Plastic Whistle have changede their's about but always kept the colours.The Midden have varied theirs a bit. With the looking like Killie bit, I seem to remember them wearing blue and white hoops in the early - mid 80s.

 

Not a problem. I think it is rather smart and will not be getting myself upset about the change of strip(e).

 

I think some people must be a wee bit more bored than me and are looking for somethings to let off steam about. We do not have a board which is perfect but I think the board have the interests of the club as of paramount importance.

[forza ton]

I can forgive people not understanding the ins and outs of company law, corporate finance and insolvency law. Most people don't as these are highly specialist areas. What I do not like is the socialist workers on here spouting complete pish as being the truth when anyone who knows anything about these matters knows their allegations are a figment of their left wing imaginations.

 

Its alleged there is no cost to Dougie in making 'loans' from Golden Casket which will never be repaid. Well:

 

1) The fans certainly helped but, make no mistake about it, Douglas Rae saved Morton and people who say otherwise are ungrateful, blinkered barstewards. Morton was in administration and in the hands of an insolvency practitioner who was going to put the club into liquidation which equals oblivion. Scott had to be paid off as part of the deal to avoid that and there is no way that the fans could have raised the money necessary. Douglas Rae did that and every Morton fan should be eternally grateful to him.

 

2) The Rae family own Golden Casket lock stock and barrel. These irrecoverable loans to finance Morton's losses reduce the value of Golden Casket and therefore Dougies personal wealth.

 

3) It is alleged that Morton is only a tax dodge for the Raes. Again, this displays a complete lack of understanding of accounting or tax law. Firstly a loan to another company is not tax allowable. It might become so if the loan is written off but I not aware that anything has. Some of the loan has been converted to shares - again not tax allowable. What they do get tax relief on is Morton's losses but, the current corporation tax rate is 30% so Golden Casket still suffers the other 70% of the losses.

 

I agree that there are some aspects of the present administration which could be better, especially in terms of communication with the fans, the website and maybe some of the peripheral commercial activities. There have also been a lot of positives such as the refurbishment of Cappielow and maintenance of our full time status. Dougie has shown himself willing to fund player acquisitions whether thats through transfer fees or wages.

 

In short he's not perfect but he has done the major things right and we owe him bigtime for the fact that we still have a club. For me, if he wants us to play in polka dots, thats a small thing and I can't understand people getting so uptight about a football shirt.

 

So those of you who don't like it, feel free to check your back issues of the socialist worker to see if there are any other fantasies you want to make up about running companies. Before you do though, can I respectfully suggest that making facts up to suit the argument does nothing to help people's perception of your IQ.

what has socialism got to do with all this? seriously, have i missed something?

[Tonsilitis]

what has socialism got to do with all this? seriously, have i missed something?

Its the left wing tendancy to see everyone who is running a company as a thieving barsteward. Quotes to the effect of 'Believe me, Dougie's only doing this for some financial gain/to save tax/to rip off the fans' is straight out of the SSP handbook. Its right up there with 'Tax the stinking rich!!'

 

Now, Dougie might be supporting Morton to massage his own ego and I can't argue with those who might think that. I prefer to think that he did what he did because he is a Morton supporter through and through and could afford it. He is certainly not doing it for financial gain and it annoys the f**k out of me when people ignorant of corporate finances try make some sort of argument that he is. Making money from Morton at the present time in the present circumstances is virtually impossible.

 

And if he wants us to play in purple leotards, thats OK by me!!