The Rc Church

[Dougie]

It's not just that non-catholic teachers can't get promotion (actually they can in exceptional circumstances where they can't find a catholic to get the job, except in religious/moral education posts where the ban applies totally). My now wife was turned down for a post at a local catholic school (she is a catholic) because she was living with me and we weren't married at the time. Quite apart from the intrusiveness of prying into people's personal circumstances (in interviews, normal employers are not allowed to ask such questions or even ask about an applicant's religion), the whole manner in which a local priest highhandedly dismissed the application and declared the candidate unsuitable smacked of fascism. He phoned up the house and I answered - I left him in no doubt where he could stick his post, his school, his religion and generally gave him a verbal doing about his perverted life and career based on fairy tales. Recently my wife was approached to take a post at the same school and she basically told them to feck off. The irony was that the first time round they couldn't find a catholic for the post and ended up with a non-catholic, at which many of the catholic parents, a particularly narrow minded bunch in this area according to Mrs Alibi, were vociferous in their complaints - letters to the local papers etc.

 

The recruitment policies for catholic schools are blatantly discriminatory, and that discrimination is actually permitted by the law. I wrote to the Director of Education and suggested that they should remove all references on their adverts to being an equal opportunities employer as clearly they weren't - he was of course unwilling to go turn that particular stone over.

 

Religion is a crutch for those who are scared of the dark. Education should be totally secular. If parents want to educate their children in 2faith" schools, they should do it privately and not expect the taxpayer to fund it. Let's try that and watch religious segregation wither on the vine.

 

Sorry, back again.

 

When David Cairns became MP for Inverclyde, the law had to be changed to allow this, as it was iilegal for anyone to have taking vows of ordination in the Catholic church to be a member of parliment.

 

If Prince William wants Kate Middleton to be his queen, then, once again, laws will have to be reformed to allow this because at present a Roman Catholic can not hold a position of the Monarch.

 

Tony Blair could not become a Roman Catholic while he was PM because, you guessed it, you cannot be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and be a Roman Catholic.

 

Three very high profile examples of ways that Catholics are STILL discriminated against by the laws of the United Kingdom. Do not complain to me about discrimination.

[leyTON]

Sorry, back again.

 

When David Cairns became MP for Inverclyde, the law had to be changed to allow this, as it was iilegal for anyone to have taking vows of ordination in the Catholic church to be a member of parliment.

 

If Prince William want Kate Middleton to be his queen, then, once again, laws will have to be reformed to allow this because at present a Roman Catholic can not hold a position of the Monarch.

 

Tony Blair could not become a Roman Catholic while he was PM because, you guessed it, you cannot be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and be a Roman Catholic.

 

Three very high profile examples of ways that Catholics are STILL discriminated against by the laws of the United Kingdom. Do not complain to me about discrimination.

i take your point, but as for your "high profile examples"

1) arent we just so grateful cairns can be our MP. also im pretty sure it was all former clergyman

2) i am surprised at your faux anger over the monarchy. its a system whereby people are given money because of their birth, and your surprsied its discrimanatory.

3) Tony Blair has committed some pretty non catholic acts, and im pretty sure that law can and has been flouted.

 

also, alibi has given a personal example that seemed to hit him and his missus hard (in the pocket aswell as mentally) and you are saying dont talk to "me" about discrimniation because youv been clever and googled catholic discrimination? have you, personally ever been discrimnated because your a catholic, cos i havent

[vikingTON]

It must be right cnut to watch all these big flashy, proddie types driving about in their Merc's . Get over yourself son and try and look forward. This poor attempt at hanging onto the past is wearisome. Also, learn to read to the end of the paragraph .

 

If by 'hanging onto the past' you mean 'studying the history' then sure.

 

You're the one who tried to troll and equate Catholic schools to sub-standard education: perhaps a greater grasp of the facts and you can come back and make a remotely worthwhile contribution.

[TonInDublin]

There have been so many laugh out loud comments on this thread that I've stopped counting.

 

See you all next month, same topic, same bat channel.

 

TonInDublin

[Honor Todd]

If by 'hanging onto the past' you mean 'studying the history' then sure.

 

You're the one who tried to troll and equate Catholic schools to sub-standard education: perhaps a greater grasp of the facts and you can come back and make a remotely worthwhile contribution.

Eh no I didn't. At the end of the paragraph I concluded it was a ridiculous suggestion. Try "studying the present" .

[Davie McArthur]

 

Incidentally, I attended a meeting in the Village, in Greater Castlemilk, yesterday. It really is a soulless place…

 

So what?

[Honor Todd]

So what?

I forgot to add I was not sipping a pint of the local's finest brew in front of a log fire...I thought it was expected practice to let everyone know of our whereabouts

[Davie McArthur]

I forgot to add I was not sipping a pint of the local's finest brew in front of a log fire...I thought it was expected practice to let everyone know of our whereabouts

 

Couldn't give a flying f**k what you do in your spare time.

[Honor Todd]

Couldn't give a flying f**k what you do in your spare time.

Oh well, I look forward to your Whicker reports from Manchester or wherever the **** you are writing from the next time .

[Cet Homme Charmant]

I forgot to add I was not sipping a pint of the local's finest brew in front of a log fire...I thought it was expected practice to let everyone know of our whereabouts

 

Sorry Davie.

[Davie McArthur]

Oh well, I look forward to your Whicker reports from Manchester or wherever the **** you are writing from the next time .

 

Good for you.

[Alibi]

Sorry, back again.

 

When David Cairns became MP for Inverclyde, the law had to be changed to allow this, as it was iilegal for anyone to have taking vows of ordination in the Catholic church to be a member of parliment.

 

If Prince William wants Kate Middleton to be his queen, then, once again, laws will have to be reformed to allow this because at present a Roman Catholic can not hold a position of the Monarch.

 

Tony Blair could not become a Roman Catholic while he was PM because, you guessed it, you cannot be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and be a Roman Catholic.

 

Three very high profile examples of ways that Catholics are STILL discriminated against by the laws of the United Kingdom. Do not complain to me about discrimination.

 

These examples are in my view archaic hangovers from a previous age. They should of course be repealed without delay and I would have thought that could be done easily - although no doubt some factions will fight it tooth and nail. Quickest way is probably to get the SNP to bring in a bill and it will no doubt get the enthusiastic support of Labour, Tories & LibDems, acting as they do at all times on principle and not just opposing everything first and trying to justify their stance afterwards (tongue in cheek there...).

 

Living in Dumfries, I find people don't have this catholic-proddy fixation, certainly not above the underclass wear-an-OF-strip-all-the-time level. I have no idea what religion, if any, most of my friends down here belong to.

 

I think a lot of Catholics have a persecution complex, perhaps as a result of the bad old days when they did get treated badly. Those days are gone, but the "them and us" attitude persists. Also persists around Celtic - their fans tend to have an everyone hates us way of looking at the world. Meanwhile, the rest of us have moved on from 1690 to 2009.

[The greenock guvnor]

Erm no, the number of practicing Catholics has decline by 20% in the past decade alone. Catholics do not constitute a major vote within the UK Parliament at which the 1918 Act could be repealed. This is very simple maths and I'm amazed that you either can't or refuse to comprehend it.

 

What has that got to do with your crusade against Catholic schooling in Scotland? Relevance? None.

 

 

 

You ought to brush up on your Catholic school knowledge as I cannot think of a single time when I've ever witnessed a nun in a Catholic school let alone teach a subject. But then knowing the facts wouldn't suit your agenda, so we dismiss and make up instead.

 

 

 

Tom Devine is at the forefront of balanced historical assessment of the Catholic schools issue. Kant is at the back of the queue, and is frankly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

If you keep spouting incorrect 'facts' and irrelevant writers then your argument won't be treated as an equal to the fact-based ones.

 

 

 

Tom Devine's book The Scottish Nation 1700-2007 has several chapters on the Enlightenment from root cause and ideas to application.

As Tom Devine is not a mentalist he does not treat the anti-Catholic riots of 1779 as in any way part of the Enlightenment. The week of riots in Glasgow and Edinburgh were against the prospect of Catholic toleration: all 5,000 of them in the entire nation. It was of the typical unbridled bigotry that distilled within the Scottish Presbyterian mindset until at least after the Second World War, and was fundamentally an anti-Enlightenment sentiment.

 

 

 

You are that mentalist who keeps trying to get a civil partnership to break imaginary discrimination aren't you?

 

 

 

Right... I'd better go and find all those Rangers fans in Catholic schools and put them back in the cage where they belong.

 

1) Once again stop answering your statements to make it seem I made those statements. I was talking about the increase of 5000 in 1872 to the present. So don't spin that.

2) Yes it is as we were talking about the Irish case and the Catholic heiracrchy and it enivatibly led to its craving to keep power at all costs.

3)Try St Patricks GREENOCK.

4)Kant is at the back of the queue. Dear oh dear. You want to stop reading Tom Devine books as even Tom Devine would be embarrased by that statement.

5) The Enlightenment is THE major influence on todays society and in fact ask Tom Devine if Democracy, Freedom of speech and the education system etc would have existed without this theory.

Your obvious derogatory name calling shows everybody that to defend your beliefs you attack those who question it. Grow up and read more than one book. You are obviously very bigoted in your mindset.

[capitanus]

Sorry mate, I'd have to disagree with you about that, my kids go to a Catholic High School in Falkirk. My son is a Morton supporter ( no surprise there ) his 10 best friends are, in no particular order,

 

2 - Partick fans,

2 - Rangers fans,

1 - Everton fan,

3 - Falkirk fans,

2 - Celtic fans.

 

When I was at School in Glasgow, in amongst my classmates:

 

2 liked Judas Priest

2 liked Iron Maiden

3 liked Grungey Pearl Jam/Nirvana crap

around 10 liked Stone Roses, New Order, Smiths etc.

and everyone else liked cheesy Happy Hardcore bouncy music.

 

(well, apart from one guy who listened to things like Burzom, but he was ****ing wierd)

 

I dont know what relevance this has to this months 'Hate Catholics' debate either, but I just thought i'd volunteer this to you.

 

[dunning1874]

1. I wonder why? The catholic vote perchance ?

2.Its the old Power struggle again. Lets all make it look like it is rosey in the garden. Boston? never heard of it?

Hold on till I get the whitewash brush.

3. Nope wrong. I went to a non denomenational school and certainly no symbolism was openly on show to promote Church of Scotland views and certainly do not recall being forced to attend any services or join the church. Certainly no minister ever taught in the classes other subjects e.g. Maths , English etc

4.Only your opinion. Not mine. However I will stick to Kant and Friends. And the words in bold obviously show how narrow minded your views are you. Just stick with auld Tom and auld Nick and do not question authority.

My agenda is what? Egalitarianism Rules Ok!

 

Oh come on. In your whole time in a non-denominational school there was never anything to promote the Church of Scotland? Never had to say prayers in primary school? Never had a Church of Scotland minister in for an assembly? Never had that minister in at Christmas or Easter?

 

I'm against faith schools of any kind: education should be kept completely seperate from religion. As such, I would like to see an end to Catholic, or any other faith based, schools. However let's not pretend that taking all the pupils from those schools and putting them in our so called 'non-denominational' schools as they are run at present will get religion out of schools. Religion is present in them all. It's good to learn about religion, that's what RE is for, but when you're letting a Church of Scotland minister come and talk to an assembly of P1-4 children and pray with them, that's not learning about it, that's being a faith school. This is what happens in all 'non-denominational' schools. If you have a minister there, you need a representative from all other faiths there, or alternatively have no religious representatives at all. What's a better idea?

 

I think the argument is about fairness rather than choice. Choice after all, is limited by factors like social and financial status. Perhaps we'd all choose to send our weans to Hutchie or St Aloysius, but many of us can't afford 'the choice'. To be fair to all we would have to extend state funded education to all faiths and beliefs.

 

What price state funded muslim, sikh, hindu, marxist-leninist, even satanist schools? Fair maybe, but certainly not practical. Surely the fairest, most inclusive and practical way to educate our children would be to remove faith from the curriculum altogether. Faith can be taught in homes and temples but not in state funded schools.

 

Of course I accept that catholic schools did not and do not cause sectarianism, rather they came into being because of it. And we all should recognise Scotland's shameful history of discrimination against its catholic citizens. But that's the past, isn't it time for us all to move on together, by consensus? I think so.

 

Excellent post.

 

Ah, the monthly attack on catholic schools/church strikes moronunofficial again!!! Honestly boys get a grip, catholic schools are here to stay for a long time to come and no ammount of moaning from a bunch of sexually frustrated Morton fans aint going to resolve it!

 

Talk to you all again next month, when the exact same subject is brought up and debated again!

 

They just wish that they were Roman Catholics...............

 

How about you actually address the points being made rather than jumping on the 'Everyone who raises a legitimate concern is anti-Catholic' bandwagon?

 

VikingTON's points relating to Catholic persecution in the past and the beginnings of Catholic schooling are absolutely correct, and we should never forget the injustices, but those points aren't relevant to whether Catholic schools have a place in our education system today.

[dunning1874]

When I was at School in Glasgow, in amongst my classmates:

 

2 liked Judas Priest

2 liked Iron Maiden

3 liked Grungey Pearl Jam/Nirvana crap

around 10 liked Stone Roses, New Order, Smiths etc.

and everyone else liked cheesy Happy Hardcore bouncy music.

 

(well, apart from one guy who listened to things like Burzom, but he was ****ing wierd)

 

I dont know what relevance this has to this months 'Hate Catholics' debate either, but I just thought i'd volunteer this to you.

 

Are the two mutually exclusive?

[capitanus]

Are the two mutually exclusive?

 

I dunno, but we all lived happily ever after just like CentralTons boy in a school with a couple of kids who support Falkirk.

 

Also, at school my favourite meal at lunchtime was Sausage and Chips, but I had a mate who like Pie and Chips and another who preferred Lasagne and Chips. There were some who liked Mince and Potatoes, but even then i knew that was ****ing revolting and smelt of dinnerladies dysentry.

 

We all got along happily and there was no bigotry as a result of it.

[The greenock guvnor]

Oh come on. In your whole time in a non-denominational school there was never anything to promote the Church of Scotland? Never had to say prayers in primary school? Never had a Church of Scotland minister in for an assembly? Never had that minister in at Christmas or Easter?

 

I'm against faith schools of any kind: education should be kept completely seperate from religion. As such, I would like to see an end to Catholic, or any other faith based, schools. However let's not pretend that taking all the pupils from those schools and putting them in our so called 'non-denominational' schools as they are run at present will get religion out of schools. Religion is present in them all. It's good to learn about religion, that's what RE is for, but when you're letting a Church of Scotland minister come and talk to an assembly of P1-4 children and pray with them, that's not learning about it, that's being a faith school. This is what happens in all 'non-denominational' schools. If you have a minister there, you need a representative from all other faiths there, or alternatively have no religious representatives at all. What's a better idea?

 

 

 

Excellent post.

 

 

 

How about you actually address the points being made rather than jumping on the 'Everyone who raises a legitimate concern is anti-Catholic' bandwagon?

 

VikingTON's points relating to Catholic persecution in the past and the beginnings of Catholic schooling are absolutely correct, and we should never forget the injustices, but those points aren't relevant to whether Catholic schools have a place in our education system today.

The place where I worshipped had little or no influence on my education.

I went there after school for a religous upbringing . This happens with the sikhs. muslims,jehivah witnesses etc all who attend non denominational schools in the UK.

I do remember being taught by a jehovah witness teacher in science(It only came up because he didn't celebrate Xmas when i innocently asked him what he was doing for xmas holidays) and being in the same class as people from other religions and having open and frank discussions on this. It was not a sin for having opposing views and not delt with by my place of worship.

Vikingtons points are biased to say the least and lets discuss anti protestant, anti jewish anti any other religion bias and persecution by the catholic church then and now.

The Age of Enlightenment movement and the relating events worldwide were not anti catholic as you describe it and believe but to take the power away from the Pope and the vatican and its corrupt dictatorial system of control and gave many freedoms and opportunitys u and I still have today and take for granted. Equality is the most famous one.

[Honor Todd]

I dunno, but we all lived happily ever after just like CentralTons boy in a school with a couple of kids who support Falkirk.

 

Also, at school my favourite meal at lunchtime was Sausage and Chips, but I had a mate who like Pie and Chips and another who preferred Lasagne and Chips. There were some who liked Mince and Potatoes, but even then i knew that was ****ing revolting and smelt of dinnerladies dysentry.

 

We all got along happily and there was no bigotry as a result of it.

Whit on a Friday?

You attended quite a progressive school Mr C .

[chris_mceleny]

No Why should i feel foolish. The Catholic Church should be questioned about it. This as i have already stated does not happen in a non denominational schools. Fact. Why is pointing that out foolish. It as you rightly stated and I also stated positions of power and influence that a non catholic can not take. And your conclusion would be then that its only a tiny minority of jobs. Yes but it is the real powerful jobs. Lets get the whitewash brushes out again. It should not happen.

What is the reason for it? Please somebody could they enlighten me on that point. Are you not embarrased trying to defend such a system.

 

you stated non catholics could not get jobs in catholic schools, this is not the case it makes perfect sense that these positions should be catholics. do you think harriet harmans equality bill should also mean that you should have a case of discrimination if you want to be a priest but they wont let you beacause you are not a catholic?