pink_panther Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 A wee bit of a theme going on in the "Ref" topic. So thought I'd ask this question of TID. A player is already booked, he commits another bookable offence but the ref plays advantage. The advantage comes to nothing, the ball is still in play and the "player who is about to be sent off" scores a goal. What happens? My thoughts would be a goal and sending off seems a bit unfair though. (also he might jump in the crowd celebrating and be due another booking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mceleny Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 A wee bit of a theme going on in the "Ref" topic. So thought I'd ask this question of TID. A player is already booked, he commits another bookable offence but the ref plays advantage. The advantage comes to nothing, the ball is still in play and the "player who is about to be sent off" scores a goal. What happens? My thoughts would be a goal and sending off seems a bit unfair though. (also he might jump in the crowd celebrating and be due another booking) goal stands and player is booked and sent off before play restarts for second bookable offence.....i know i'm not tid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 goal stands and player is booked and sent off before play restarts for second bookable offence.....i know i'm not tid Unless it's the OF or man utd, in which case the player stays on the pitch. The future just ain't what it used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonInDublin Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Strange as it sounds, once you have played the advantage then the next opportunity to address the yellow card is the next time the ball goes dead. So Chris is right - goal is awarded, player is cautioned for the offence you spotted, and then sent from the field of play for his cautionable offence. But ..... it's rare that we are taught to play advantages in yellow card or red card situations - UNLESS it is a real obvious goal scoring opportunity. The likelihood is that the person who has been fouled gets up and is looking for retribution, or one of his mates is - especially if you don't take action immediately - so in the vast majority of yellow card offences you would stop the game, issue the caution and then get on with it. Obviously this is situational but I'm talking about the vast majority of the incidents. Given that no one has got the last two I set correct yet, here's another easier one we got asked to decide on last Monday. Have a go .... An attacking player is through on goal, where he has sidestepped the goalkeeper twenty yards from goal. As he enters into the penalty area with an open goal, a defender lunges at him from behind to try and stop him scoring. The attacker, as he is tackled and nearly shoved off balance and tangled with the defender, simultaneously swings back his elbow, catching the defender and at the same time volleying the ball into the empty net. Usual question. What is your decision, what action(s) do you take, how do you restart play. A wee easy one to get you started. The answer will be the answer provided by our FIFA and FAI referee assessors - who judge us on our performances - and, for those not smart enough to join the dots, force us to a certain extenet to comply with all of the laws of the game, and maybe not necessarily the spirit of the game. I know I referee three ways - one way when I have no assessor, one when I have my FAI assessor and one when I have my combined FIFA/FAI assessor. I know which I prefer ! TonInDublin Two Uniteds but the soul is one, as the Busby Babes carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Strange as it sounds, once you have played the advantage then the next opportunity to address the yellow card is the next time the ball goes dead. So Chris is right - goal is awarded, player is cautioned for the offence you spotted, and then sent from the field of play for his cautionable offence. But ..... it's rare that we are taught to play advantages in yellow card or red card situations - UNLESS it is a real obvious goal scoring opportunity. The likelihood is that the person who has been fouled gets up and is looking for retribution, or one of his mates is - especially if you don't take action immediately - so in the vast majority of yellow card offences you would stop the game, issue the caution and then get on with it. Obviously this is situational but I'm talking about the vast majority of the incidents. Given that no one has got the last two I set correct yet, here's another easier one we got asked to decide on last Monday. Have a go .... An attacking player is through on goal, where he has sidestepped the goalkeeper twenty yards from goal. As he enters into the penalty area with an open goal, a defender lunges at him from behind to try and stop him scoring. The attacker, as he is tackled and nearly shoved off balance and tangled with the defender, simultaneously swings back his elbow, catching the defender and at the same time volleying the ball into the empty net. Usual question. What is your decision, what action(s) do you take, how do you restart play. A wee easy one to get you started. The answer will be the answer provided by our FIFA and FAI referee assessors - who judge us on our performances - and, for those not smart enough to join the dots, force us to a certain extenet to comply with all of the laws of the game, and maybe not necessarily the spirit of the game. I know I referee three ways - one way when I have no assessor, one when I have my FAI assessor and one when I have my combined FIFA/FAI assessor. I know which I prefer ! TonInDublin Assuming the attacker is fouled before he elbows the defender, I would assume a penalty would be awarded and then both players sent off - the attacker for serious foul play and the defender for being the last man and denying a clear goalscoring opportunity, or whatever you call it in referee speak. As the foul(s) were presumably committed before the ball crossed the line, you couldn't allow the goal to stand. I suspect you possibly have the option to play an advantage and allow the goal but then send off the attacker for the elbow, and deal with the defender according to how bad his foul was (maybe just a yellow card or even nothing at all if it was a pretty soft foul) rather than invoking the last man denying a goal scenario - rather like handball on the line being ignored if the ball ends up in the net, when I don't think the perpetrator is ever booked. "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonInDublin Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Going to meetings so I'll be concise. Red card for the attacker for violent conduct, yellow card for the defender for unsporting behaviour. Restart play with a direct free kick to the defending team. Ask yourself the question (as we were told) "who denied the goalscoring opportunity ?" Answer - the attacker, who, when clear on goal committed an act of violent conduct, and as the incidents happened simultaneoulsy you punish the more serious offence. By the way, if I refereed than incident a 100 times I'd never give that decision. Just trying to point out to you that when someone says that referees failed some test or other - this is the type of shit they are hit with - which makes no account for common sense or real fair play. There's more if you need them ! TonInDublin ps I got the answer right before anyone asks - I just wouldn't ref like that ! Two Uniteds but the soul is one, as the Busby Babes carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Going to meetings so I'll be concise. Red card for the attacker for violent conduct, yellow card for the defender for unsporting behaviour. Restart play with a direct free kick to the defending team. Ask yourself the question (as we were told) "who denied the goalscoring opportunity ?" Answer - the attacker, who, when clear on goal committed an act of violent conduct, and as the incidents happened simultaneoulsy you punish the more serious offence. By the way, if I refereed than incident a 100 times I'd never give that decision. Just trying to point out to you that when someone says that referees failed some test or other - this is the type of s*** they are hit with - which makes no account for common sense or real fair play. There's more if you need them ! TonInDublin ps I got the answer right before anyone asks - I just wouldn't ref like that ! Are these questions & answers available to the general public ?......Probably not i know, but if football fans knew what kind of tests refs get they might be more inclined to understand the decisions that are being made. If that example you gave happened to morton, scotland or arsenal i'd be fuming about it, and, i presume so would just about everyone else. The future just ain't what it used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaunTon Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 All refs are ****. TiD included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Anyone remember A 3-0 win away to stenny in 2001 I think when Iain Ferguson elbowed GReacan in the face at the half way line and went up the park and scored. However the linesman had his flag up the whole time, the ref saw the flag talked to his linesman chalked off the goal and sent Ferguson off! "Boy, I got vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonInDublin Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 All refs are ****. TiD included. I love you man. And I have a uniform to wear for you ..... Two Uniteds but the soul is one, as the Busby Babes carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaunTon Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I love you man. And I have a uniform to wear for you ..... they're degenerate as well. Burning's too good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonInDublin Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 they're degenerate as well. Burning's too good for them. a sexy uniform ..... I'll let you blow my whistle if you let me work the channels .... Two Uniteds but the soul is one, as the Busby Babes carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 All refs are ****. TiD included. Needed to be said you just missed out the bit about them being inadequate individuals. I have no doubt Tid will let you play a tune on his whistle so be careful if he offers to meet up at a game for some craic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Going to meetings so I'll be concise. Red card for the attacker for violent conduct, yellow card for the defender for unsporting behaviour. Restart play with a direct free kick to the defending team. Ask yourself the question (as we were told) "who denied the goalscoring opportunity ?" Answer - the attacker, who, when clear on goal committed an act of violent conduct, and as the incidents happened simultaneoulsy you punish the more serious offence. By the way, if I refereed than incident a 100 times I'd never give that decision. Just trying to point out to you that when someone says that referees failed some test or other - this is the type of s*** they are hit with - which makes no account for common sense or real fair play. There's more if you need them ! TonInDublin ps I got the answer right before anyone asks - I just wouldn't ref like that ! Ah, you didn't say the incidents happened at the same time. I thought you meant that the attacker was fouled and then as he fell, he elbowed the defender and hit the ball at the same time. I assume if the defender did commit a foul just before the attacker elbowed him, you would punish the first offence and give a penalty etc as I described. "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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