Europa League Started

[beermonkey]

I think I could type for days on what I think is wrong. I think the biggest problem is the coaching mentality. It seems to be rigid and overly cautious. Young kids are encouraged to boot the ball to **** up the pitch, defenders are there to defend and should get rid of it at the first time of asking and not to think they are 'players'. It's the kind of thing you read on here all the time but if you watch most of the best teams in the world they have guys who can step out of defence with the ball at their feet and start moves. Players further forward are encouraged not to take any risks in possession or to show any individuality. My wee brother was telling me how his manager has them playing the game like robots with patterns of play that must be adhered to at all times and not taking more than a certain number of touches.

 

I also think there's other factors that can't be controlled. The rising living standards means there are no longer kids who are sufficiently poor that their desperation and hunger is so high that they'll do anything to climb out of the slums. Whereas in places like Argentina and Brazil guys like Carlos Tevez have nothing to do but play football all day everyday as they don't go to school, can hardly get a job while kids in Scotland all go to school and in their free time they play computers, watch DVDs, watch TV, drink on street corners etc etc. I think that also ties in with some of the larger nations drawing a lot of talent from immigrant populations whereas Scotland doesn't have significant immigrant populations to speak of (except Pakistanis, Indians and Chinese and these groups for have not made an impact on football in the UK for whatever reasons be they cultural, lack of opportunity or that they are mostly successful and don't live in poverty). Whereas in England you have players of Carribean origin and more recently a lot of players of African origin (specfically Nigeria), in Holland there are Surinamers, France has many Africans and players from former colonies and overseas territories (Martinique, Guadeloupe, New Caledonia). There are Turks in Germany and Eastern Europeans in Scandinavia etc

 

I read a brilliant book by Gianluca Vialli and Gabreille Marcotti called The Italian Job in which he compares Italian and English (British) football. He points to various factors why Britain is falling (or has fallen) behind the continent - the weather means its harder to train and play good football; that we are warrior islanders and view everything as a battle, including football and this is why we play it so fast and physcially but that the players on the continent have caught up physcially but have long surpassed us technically; that in Britain training is seen as a chore and all about physical exertion and playing in match type situations while on the continent players want to learn from their coaches and do a lot more work with ball. They spend a lot of time mastering the ball technically and also work on a player's body flexibility, movement, agility, ability to change direction and on short sharp bursts of pace to get away from opponents rather than on endurance or being able to run for 90 minutes.

 

What Scottish football really needs is someone from within, preferrably an intelligent foward thinker with solutions, to come out and outline the problems and how things can be improved. I kind of had hope Gordon Smith might've been in a position to do something like that when he was given his job at the SFA but it doesn't seem like it now.

That bit in bold sums it up for me, i could also type for hours about how we used to play from dawn til dusk wherever we could an all that, but it seems kids dont really play footie half as much these days unless their in some sort of club already.

 

Just to add - i also remember my dad telling me that THEY used to play football a lot more than we ever did, so where/when did it all start going wrong ?

[BishyTON]

That bit in bold sums it up for me, i could also type for hours about how we used to play from dawn til dusk wherever we could an all that, but it seems kids dont really play footie half as much these days unless their in some sort of club already.

 

Just to add - i also remember my dad telling me that THEY used to play football a lot more than we ever did, so where/when did it all start going wrong ?

 

Yeah that is 100% true. Even 10 years ago, I remember big brawls over who would get to use the best pitch at the various parks in Bishopton. These days I barely see any kids playing football at all. The future of Scottish Football is only going to get bleaker imo, less and less kids are playing football and more are just playing the latest games and watching TV all day.

[xj2006]

Yeah that is 100% true. Even 10 years ago, I remember big brawls over who would get to use the best pitch at the various parks in Bishopton. These days I barely see any kids playing football at all. The future of Scottish Football is only going to get bleaker imo, less and less kids are playing football and more are just playing the latest games and watching TV all day.

 

I remember getting a kick-about with some school kids in europe whilst travelling a while back. I thought it would be fairly simple as they were about 12 years old and I was about 20 and considered quite a good player back home. Anyways, they took the micky out of me and my pals.... their technique was incredible, and their intelligence was second to none.

 

The thing I noticed in most of the cities in Europe was lots and lots of small pitches, full of kids learning stepovers and ball control etc... Contrast that with Scotland, where you see 10 year old kids chasing a mouldmaster around on FULL SIZE blaze pitches on a rainy Sunday morning!!! The difference is so obvious, so why do the powers that be in Scottish football not do something about it???

 

the kids on the continent get a better start and its little wonder scottish football is a joke. Perhaps more pumpings from medicore european teams might be the catylst for change? Rangers and Selic getting to European finals has been a false indication of the standard of Scottish football on the continent. I would class the SPL along with the Danish or Norwegian leagues at the moment.

[HamCam]

Everyone involved in football in this country needs to take a serious look at what the hell we are playing at - especially the coaches.

 

To give an example of the people I mean, the first person I thought of when I saw that result tonight was Craig Levein. He was recently giving it 'the media are too negative, I see games in England and they are rubbish there too, they just market it better, we have a good a league of good standard as well, and we'll even get a better TV deal than the Setanta one' ( ). Who are these people trying to kid exactly?

 

The coaching for me is where the blame lies. Obsessed with winning from the outset to the point that basic skills are sacrificed at the altar of over-coaching. Kids are also judged at such an early age in the SFA pro-youth set-up they become frightened to express themselves and 'formula' tactical board football turns them into robots with limited technical ability. Compare our set-up with what happens on the continent.

 

The Performance and Initiative youth set-ups are not working and if Gordon Smith wants to make a difference fundamental change is required.

 

As for Craig Levein he may talk pish at times but he at least appreciates we have a problem. The Dundee Utd youth set-up has just been scrapped to be replaced by a skills based system to encourage and develop technical ability.

 

Sad to say but talent such as Andy Ritchie, Jim Tolmie, John McNeil etc would have struggled to tick the boxes today.

 

I think I could type for days on what I think is wrong. I think the biggest problem is the coaching mentality. It seems to be rigid and overly cautious. Young kids are encouraged to boot the ball to **** up the pitch, defenders are there to defend and should get rid of it at the first time of asking and not to think they are 'players'. It's the kind of thing you read on here all the time but if you watch most of the best teams in the world they have guys who can step out of defence with the ball at their feet and start moves. Players further forward are encouraged not to take any risks in possession or to show any individuality. My wee brother was telling me how his manager has them playing the game like robots with patterns of play that must be adhered to at all times and not taking more than a certain number of touches.

 

What Scottish football really needs is someone from within, preferrably an intelligent foward thinker with solutions, to come out and outline the problems and how things can be improved. I kind of had hope Gordon Smith might've been in a position to do something like that when he was given his job at the SFA but it doesn't seem like it now.

 

I agree but what do you do when the SFA recommend no 11 aside football till at least 12 preferring kids develop their skills initially at 4 and then 7 aside games where results are not important as nothing in theory at stake. Too many Boys club football set-ups ignore the guidance and stick kids out on a full size pitch before they are ready.

 

The thing I noticed in most of the cities in Europe was lots and lots of small pitches, full of kids learning stepovers and ball control etc... Contrast that with Scotland, where you see 10 year old kids chasing a mouldmaster around on FULL SIZE blaze pitches on a rainy Sunday morning!!! The difference is so obvious, so why do the powers that be in Scottish football not do something about it???

 

Thing is though it is not the SFA that condones this type of football at such an early age - back to the coaches again.

 

No easy quick solution but if we want to avoid the embarassing events of late we may need to accept more short term pain and disappointment.

 

Maybe Morton can be frontrunners with their new set-up - over to you Stuart Duncan to save Scottish football

[TAFKAC]

Went to see Polonia lose 1-0 to Breda on Thursday night. Cracking match and atmosphere. Both teams much more technically proficient than anything you'll see in Scotland. And I've got to convince my sons on this holidays that they are still Morton supporters. Gets harder as they get older and understand football more.

[IainMorton]

Aberdeen 2-0 down in 14 minutes...

[xj2006]

3-0 down at half time

 

Aberdeen are s***e

[IainMorton]

HT 3-0 Sigma

[IainMorton]

1-0 Motherwell.

[stuart]

Scotland are now the equivalent of what Wales and Northern Ireland were when I was getting into football in the 80s.

 

Teams regularly getting pamped in Europe by everyone, national team barely a sniff of qualifying for a major championship and drawing our players from lower league sides.

 

I used to think it must suck to be from Wales or Northern Ireland football wise - it doesn't feel too bad though

[Cawston]

Swings and roundabouts

 

Bleak this season but recently we had Rangers boring teams into submission on their way to wrecking Manchester, Celtic last 16 Chumps league, Aberdeen in the UEFA group stages, national team doing well(ish).

[beermonkey]

Swings and roundabouts

 

Bleak this season but recently we had Rangers boring teams into submission on their way to wrecking Manchester, Celtic last 16 Chumps league, Aberdeen in the UEFA group stages, national team doing well(ish).

 

The Of getting to their uefa cup finals have papered over the cracks as far as i'm concerned, as long as we (scottish clubs) get a inkling of success people will just say "ah well it's not as bad as i thought".

 

maybe we need ALL the scottish clubs to be humped & humiliated in europe, maybe...just maybe the folk who run the game will realise...As most of the supporters now do, that scottish football needs a complete shake up from top to bottom.

[IainMorton]

1-1 Steaua scored a pen.

[The Naitch]

2-1 Steaua.

[ThornTON]

The sides starting in this round (drawn @ 12.30 on Eurosport) are..

 

AEK Athens Aston Villa BATE CFR Cluj

Dinamo BucureÅŸti Everton Levadia Maribor

Racing Genk Teplice Villarreal Zenit St. Petersburg

Valencia Benfica Sion Baku

Lazio Nacional Litex Lovech Aktobe

Genoa Heerenveen Slavia Prague Dynamo Moscow

Guingamp Ajax Stabæk Twente

Toulouse Heart of Midlothian Partizan Sivasspor

Werder Bremen Trabzonspor Slovan Bratislava Shakhtar Donetsk

Hertha BSC Vorskla Poltava Dinamo Zagreb Sparta Prague

 

----------------------

These are added to the qualifiers from last night...

 

Bnei Yehuda Tel-Aviv FC

SC Vaslui

FK Crvena Zvezda

SK Sturm Graz

Odense BK

FK QarabaÄŸ

Galatasaray AÅž

KKS Lech Poznań

Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC

Tromsø IL

Brøndby IF

PFC CSKA Sofia

FC Metallurh Donetsk

PAOK FC

Fulham FC

SK Rapid Wien

FK Austria Wien

FC Slovan Liberec

MŠK Žilina

FC Steaua BucureÅŸti

NAC Breda

MFK Košice

Club Brugge KV

Hamburger SV

Saint Patrick's Athletic FC

PSV Eindhoven

LOSC Lille Métropole

Fenerbahçe SK

SK Sigma Olomouc

FK Sarajevo

AS Roma

FC Metalist Kharkiv

FC Basel 1893

Athletic Club Bilbao

IF Elfsborg

 

As Villa are seeded they will draw one of Genoa CFC (ITA), SK Rapid Wien (AUT), CD Nacional (POR), Saint Patrick's Athletic FC (IRL), NK Maribor (SVN). It is 'regionalised', in the loosest possible sense.

 

Everton can draw Hearts. They can also draw PAOK FC (GRE), FC BATE Borisov (BLR), SK Sigma Olomouc (CZE) or a fun trip to FK Aktobe (KAZ), hardly fecking regionalised.

 

EDIT: Forgot about Fulham, they can get KKS Lech Poznań (POL), FC Amkar Perm (RUS), NAC Breda (NED), FK Teplice (CZE), FC Levadia Tallinn (EST) .

[Thrax]

im liking the look of the europa cup this year

 

Plenty of teams there in with a great chance of going far and itll be competitive from the get go. Almost certain to get some right tasty ties in this round. There arent many so called "diddy teams" in there.

 

Hope Hearts make it to the group stages, I reckon Laszlo is well suited to managing in these ties having experience from ferencvaros and the hearts team (when their key players are fit) could actually make a good name for themselves

[The Naitch]

im liking the look of the europa cup this year

 

Plenty of teams there in with a great chance of going far and itll be competitive from the get go. Almost certain to get some right tasty ties in this round. There arent many so called "diddy teams" in there.

 

Hope Hearts make it to the group stages, I reckon Laszlo is well suited to managing in these ties having experience from ferencvaros and the hearts team (when their key players are fit) could actually make a good name for themselves

 

Aye, here's hoping they get a relatively 'favourable' draw when it's made later - Aberdeen's escapades in the Group Stage in the 07/08 season were brilliant.

[ThornTON]

im liking the look of the europa cup this year

 

Plenty of teams there in with a great chance of going far and itll be competitive from the get go. Almost certain to get some right tasty ties in this round. There arent many so called "diddy teams" in there.

 

Hope Hearts make it to the group stages, I reckon Laszlo is well suited to managing in these ties having experience from ferencvaros and the hearts team (when their key players are fit) could actually make a good name for themselves

If Hearts can get the woeful Litex side that we knocked out last season, they will have a very good chance.

[The Naitch]

Tough tie for the Jambos... Dinamo Zagreb. First leg is away though, which might give them a chance.

 

EDIT: Everton have Sigma Olomouc, Fulham face FC Amkar, Villa are up against Rapid Vienna and St Pat's have Steaua Bucharest.

[ThornTON]

Group 1

 

PAOK (GRE) v Heerenveen (NED)

Dinamo Zagreb (HRV) v Hearts (SCO)

Werder Bremen (GER) v Aktobe (KAZ)

Everton (ENG) v Sigma Olomouc (CZE)

BATE (BLR) v Litex (BUL)

 

Group 2

 

NAC (NED) v Villareal (ESP)

Lech Poznan (POL) v Club Brugge (BEL)

Fulham (ENG) v Amkar Perm (RUS)

Galatasaray (TUR) v Levadia (EST)

Teplice (CZE) v Hapoel (ISR)

 

Group 3

 

Metallurg Donetsk (UKR) v Austria Vienna (AUT)

Twente (NED) v Karabag (AZE)

Roma (ITA) v Kosice (SVK)

Dinamo Moscow (RUS) v CSKA Sofia (BUL)

Genk (BEL) v Lille (FRA)

 

Group 4

 

PSV (NED) v Bnei Yehuda (ISR)

Lazio (ITA) v Elfsborg (SWE)

Trabzonspor (TUR) v Toulouse (FRA)

Partizan Belgrade (SER) v Zilina (SVK)

Baki (AZE) v Basel (SUI)

 

Group 5

 

Ajax (NED) v Slovan Bratislava (SVK)

Shakhtar (UKR) v Sivasspor (TUR)

Brondby (DEN) v Hertha Berlin (GER)

Athletic Bilbao (ESP) v Tromso (NOR)

Sarajevo (BOS) v Cluj (ROM)

 

Group 6

 

Rapid Vienna (AUT) v Aston Villa (ENG)

Steaua Bucharest (ROM) v St. Pat's (IRL)

Sparta Prague (CZE) v Maribor (SLO)

Zenit (RUS) v Nacional (POR)

Genoa (ITA) v Odense (DEN)

 

Group 7

 

Dinamo Bucharest (ROM) v Slovan Liberec (CZE)

Guingamp (FRA) v Hamburg (GER)

Sion (SUI) v Fenerbahce (TUR)

Sturm Graz (AUT) v Metalist Kharkiv (UKR)

 

Group 8

 

Slavia Prague (CZE) v Red Star Belgrade (SER)

Benfica (POR) v Vorskla Poltava (UKR)

Vaslui (ROM) v AEK Athens (GRE)

Stabaek (NOR) v Valencia (ESP)