Mabawsa Ritchie Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Excuse my ignorance but does that mean they are automatically relegated and all points they have won are now void ? Not really. Livi were relegated to Division 3 not because they went into administration, but because they couldn't come up with £250K bond that guaranteed they'd fulfill their fixtures in Division 1. The SFL view was that it was better to have a 9-Club Third Division than a 9-Club First Division. My guess would be that Dundee will stay in Division 1, but with a 15/20 points deduction. However, the Dees may be asked by the SFL for a similar bond up front and I doubt they could afford this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shimmin1874 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-firs...anagement-team/ Dundee's impending slip into administration for the second time in seven years will result in 10 of the current playing staff being released. STV understands the cuts could also see manager Gordon Chisholm and his assistant, Billy Dodds, laid off by administrator Bryan Jackson. The First Division club, who have been fighting a demand from HM Revenue and Customs for an unpaid tax bill of £365,000, are understood to have started proceedings to go into administration, with one-time Motherwell administrator Bryan Jackson set to be appointed to the same role with Dundee. On loan players Milan Misun, Jamie Adams and David Witteveen are believed to be three players who will definitely be moved on from the club, returning to their respective parent clubs of Celtic, St Johnstone and Hearts. At present, there is a pool of 24 senior players at Dens Park, including the aforementioned three loanees. Dundee's players have been in constant dialogue with PFA Scotland this week over the situation. The club failed to pay their salaries on the due date of last Thursday and, after promising to make full payment on Tuesday, eventually paid 50 per cent of wages of Wednesday. The players, who were given Wednesday off training after Chisholm revealed many could not afford to commute from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Dundee, have also been given the weekend off because of the international break. The Scottish Football League does not have fixed penalties in place for clubs going into administration and will have to decide what course of action to take to punish Dundee for their financial mismanagement. With the season already underway, a points deduction seems the most likely scenario. Dundee are currently sixth in the First Division with 11 points, seven behind leaders Dunfermline Athletic and six ahead of bottom placed club Greenock Morton I would happily assign them to our squad Fouad Bachirou The Next Claude Makélelé Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Well i'm in the "tough s*** it serves them right" corner on this, hopefuly they will be kicked down to the 3rd. The future just ain't what it used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Willow Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 What happened to the Dee4life? Do they not own about 25% of shares and have a seat on the board? If that's their own fans allowing this to happen again I can't see why others should have much sympathy. This is the bit tha gets me, why wasn't their rep on the board doing something about this, apart from an interview saying he was unhappy. Remember their reps sat on a board that agreed to 'soft loans' from their directors, surely our rep at Scapa must be in the same boat as any company must agree to accept donations or take on loans etc. Our Trusts shareholding is very diluted now due to DDFR's share issues but Dee's still claimed a 25% stake, which is significant. They should have called Town hall meetings / suppoerters clubs meetings etx to let them know exactly what was going on, now if they did and the fans still did nowt then it's their own fault, if they didn't questions must be raised of those running Dee's Trust. Some sing of Celtic, Rangers And some of Motherwell Of Hibs and Partick Thistle And other teams as well But of all the famous football teams There’s one that they’ve forgotten With a Ra Ra Ra and a Cha Cha Cha IT’S THE FAMOUS GREENOCK MORTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Dundee are too big to completely die, but the level of mismanagement here is appalling. As VT says, this is the second time in just a few years that this has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Willow Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 A wee interesting post on a Dee website from a few days ago.... Dee4Life in principal is a great thing, DFC fans represented on the Board, who would have thought it, we had eyes, a voice and ears in the Boardroom, no more reckless folly!! Like a previous poster said "unless the "big boys" discussed the serious matters while he was sent for the coffees, how DID he know nothing?" Did he forget that he was there representing the fans and it was through the fans hard earned cash that he was put on the Board. I can't actually believe he did not see this coming, and surely at some stage he called into question the sheer madness of where it could lead (remember 2003), was it not discussed or even mentioned at any of the Dee4Life meetings, was this the reason for SG stepping down from Dee4Life? Puts a new slant on the three wise monkeys, however, there appears to be just the one Not Seeing, Not Speaking, Not Hearing. Some sing of Celtic, Rangers And some of Motherwell Of Hibs and Partick Thistle And other teams as well But of all the famous football teams There’s one that they’ve forgotten With a Ra Ra Ra and a Cha Cha Cha IT’S THE FAMOUS GREENOCK MORTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Willow Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Dundee are too big to completely die, but the level of mismanagement here is appalling. As VT says, this is the second time in just a few years that this has happened. No company is too big to die as the recent world financial crash should have shown folk. Some sing of Celtic, Rangers And some of Motherwell Of Hibs and Partick Thistle And other teams as well But of all the famous football teams There’s one that they’ve forgotten With a Ra Ra Ra and a Cha Cha Cha IT’S THE FAMOUS GREENOCK MORTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 No company is too big to die as the recent world financial crash should have shown folk. True enough. Maybe Obama and Brown can bail out Dundee then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Willow Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 True enough. Maybe Obama and Brown can bail out Dundee then Now that's more like it, a bit of positive thinking Some sing of Celtic, Rangers And some of Motherwell Of Hibs and Partick Thistle And other teams as well But of all the famous football teams There’s one that they’ve forgotten With a Ra Ra Ra and a Cha Cha Cha IT’S THE FAMOUS GREENOCK MORTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Not really. Livi were relegated to Division 3 not because they went into administration, but because they couldn't come up with £250K bond that guaranteed they'd fulfill their fixtures in Division 1. The SFL view was that it was better to have a 9-Club Third Division than a 9-Club First Division. My guess would be that Dundee will stay in Division 1, but with a 15/20 points deduction. However, the Dees may be asked by the SFL for a similar bond up front and I doubt they could afford this. Exactly, this isn't the same situation as Livi, yet, so for the time being they'll be a First Division club. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Willow Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 The thing is a 10 point deduction isn't really punishing them and gives them a good chance of staying up and knowng the SFL they will opt for the soft option. Wheras a 15 / 20 point deduction would be more significant and give them a huge uphil struggle to avoid relegation and show clubs the punishment that will be handed out. Some sing of Celtic, Rangers And some of Motherwell Of Hibs and Partick Thistle And other teams as well But of all the famous football teams There’s one that they’ve forgotten With a Ra Ra Ra and a Cha Cha Cha IT’S THE FAMOUS GREENOCK MORTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickaton Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 The thing is a 10 point deduction isn't really punishing them and gives them a good chance of staying up and knowng the SFL they will opt for the soft option. Wheras a 15 / 20 point deduction would be more significant and give them a huge uphil struggle to avoid relegation and show clubs the punishment that will be handed out. 30 points. This is the second time its happened. SFL should give the same punishment as Livi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Willow Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 30 points. This is the second time its happened. SFL should give the same punishment as Livi. I agree it should be a points deduction that will virtually ensure their relegation but I doubt that will happen. Some sing of Celtic, Rangers And some of Motherwell Of Hibs and Partick Thistle And other teams as well But of all the famous football teams There’s one that they’ve forgotten With a Ra Ra Ra and a Cha Cha Cha IT’S THE FAMOUS GREENOCK MORTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 I'd say 20 points would be fair, although I like vikingTON's suggestion: Start from a 100 point deduction, then make it less for every penny in the pound they pay creditors off at. So for example, they agree a CVA at 10p in the pound, they have 90 points deducted. If they're still left in minus points at the end of the season, the minus points are carried on to the next. Obviously this isn't a particularly enjoyable situation, but if any good comes out of it, the workshy arsehole that is Dominic Shimmin is likely to be out of a job. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SramTon Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Tbh, I've a bit of sympathy for them. The Melville money was too much to turn down. No one associated with Dundee (apart from Melville) could have forseen how things were going to pan out with Melville's other business interests. Plenty on here were creaming themselves at the thought of Alastair Donald's money. There but for the brace of Bod... Look at her riding pillions on Davy’s sea-bike, carrying an apoplectic macaw in a silver hoop. Oh, Morton, let’s go there this winter! Or learning the Japanese chinchona from that Kobe group, in a dress that looks like a blowtorch rising from one knee, and which should sell big in Texas. Morton, is that real fire? Happy, happy little girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiboi Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Shouldn't the SFL have some rules on this so we don't end up with this sort of uncertainty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Tbh, I've a bit of sympathy for them. The Melville money was too much to turn down. No one associated with Dundee (apart from Melville) could have forseen how things were going to pan out with Melville's other business interests. Plenty on here were creaming themselves at the thought of Alastair Donald's money. There but for the brace of Bod... Yeah, but they could have said to Melville that they wanted him to put his money towards buying back Dens (as he promised to in June 2009) or investing in youth development rather than spunking it on Leigh Griffiths and Gary Harkins with no assets to fall back on when it inevitably went tits up. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokie Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Almost feel sorry for the fans. I work with fans of both sides of he Dundee divide, the Dundee fans I know are in denial, they think they are too big a club to fold and that some Dundee sympathising fairy godmother is going to make it all better. The Utd fans on the other hand are behaving as you or I would if it was the s*unks in the myre. So while I almost feel sorry for the fans, I am indifferent about their survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_Gillan Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Dundee are too big to completely die, but the level of mismanagement here is appalling. As VT says, this is the second time in just a few years that this has happened. They have no assets other than the players if they can afford to keep them . Unless someone bails them out I sadly think thats them finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Dundee are too big to completely die, but the level of mismanagement here is appalling. As VT says, this is the second time in just a few years that this has happened. I dont think they are too big to completely die, as Dundee isn't exactly a big city and they arent exactly an integral part of the economy of the place. In the great scheme of things, the turnover of Dundee FC would probably be less than a percentage of the pubs in its city centre where their supporters would go before and after the game. However, this would represent is a good opportunity for a prudent local businessman to come on board and buy a club for a knock-down price. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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