Death

[Toby]

Thanks for asking.

 

A friend of mine's died on Sunday in his sleep and left two bits of weans behind.

He'd been burgled only a few days previous and slept downstair that evening in case they returned.

 

Shame that, sympathies with his family and friends.

 

Why don't you grieve amongst those people instead of spark a debate amongst folk who (rightly or wrongly) are suspicious of you, hence provoking responses against you that are expected and giving you a feeling of moral highground that you don't really merit?

 

Edited to delete "/her"

[Eldoradoton]

Thanks for asking.

 

A friend of mine's died on Sunday in his sleep and left two bits of weans behind.

He'd been burgled only a few days previous and slept downstair that evening in case they returned.

 

Really sorry to hear that.

[beermonkey]

Thanks for asking.

 

A friend of mine's died on Sunday in his sleep and left two bits of weans behind.

He'd been burgled only a few days previous and slept downstair that evening in case they returned.

Sorry to hear that as well & i'd like to apologise for bringing the "god doesn't exist" angle into this thread.

 

Wrong time & place for this pish.

 

 

Sorry.

[TONofmemories]

Shame that, sympathies with his family and friends.

 

Why don't you grieve amongst those people instead of spark a debate amongst folk who (rightly or wrongly) are suspicious of you, hence provoking responses against you that are expected and giving you a feeling of moral highground that you don't really merit?

 

Edited to delete "/her"

It's a message board and he is entitled to post what he wished regardless of what people think. Is he not?

[Satans Husband]

Whats my prejudice or agenda? And because I am a Roman Catholic that means I can not look at things rationally? Where as Aethiests are more rational people? That is up for debate, but they certainly appear to be more arrogant people.

Maybe my use of the words prejudice and agenda is a little unfair but I stick by the claim that anyone looking at the credibility of the holy books rationally would come to the conclusion that it’s nonsense. I believe that as science reveals more and more, there will come a time, a few hundred years from now, when all but the most fanatical are in agreement over the true picture.

 

I once witnessed a lecture in which a creationist scientist was debunking carbon dating to the hilarity of his supportive audience. Ignoring the fact that carbon dating is only one of many methods of estimating the age of things, he was doing this to back up his belief in the literal truth of Noah’s Ark, even going so far as to point out that the dinosaurs on the Ark, yes they were on it as well, would have been very young when taken on board and therefore wouldn’t have taken up too much space. As the years progress and clear science becomes ever more accessible, guys like him will be less able to put up ‘fascinating’ arguments such as this and the creationist belief of age of the planet can be tossed in the same bin as the claims that were made to support a belief in a flat Earth (a planet that is flat is very helpful in the translation of various biblical passages).

 

Unfortunately, there is an argument against my expectation of people, in my opinion, coming to their senses. If an archaeological dig spent many years on the acknowledged site of a famous battle and turned up absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any battle ever having taken place there, the vast majority of the populace would accept that no such battle had taken place. Yet, despite the fact that there is zero archaeological evidence of the Exodus ever having happened – which is pivotal to so much of the bible’s teachings – millions of people still talk about it as fact. This refusal to address blatant fallacies is one of the reasons I generally avoid getting into the God debate with people.

 

I agree that quite a few atheists come across as arrogant but they’re possibly just the ones who shout loudest in debates and forums. I know plenty of atheists that are decent, respectful people. At the same time it’s apparent that arrogance runs right through organised religion as only their particular beliefs and their particular book is correct and not only are the people who don’t share their interpretation wrong, in many cases the people that disagree with them are damned for all eternity. The number of ways all of the major religions have splintered off into factions is as clear an indication of arrogance as you could have.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

I once witnessed a lecture in which a creationist scientist

That's an oxymoron.

[tommydoc]

I was at the Crematorium today. The Minister spoke about Jesus for 35 minutes, and only managed 2 minutes on the person we had gathered to pay our respects to.

I wasn't sure if it was my mate, or Jesus, in the coffin.

[bigdoc1874]

BOOM!!

 

I agree weedoc, lets live a little. Lets all make up some imaginary friends and go to places like Darlington to watch pisspoor English Football, because the team you support are paying tribute to a player that happens not to be white and British.

 

A few points weedougie, i think you are a shining example of belief in imaginary friends. I have been to a lot more places to watch piss poor english/ scottish/ international football. I went to my nephews birthday party just up the road from cappielow on the afternoon of the french tribute game, nothing to do with him not being british or white, unless that is you are saying i'm racist, are you weedougie ?

[Dougie]

A few points weedougie, i think you are a shining example of belief in imaginary friends. I have been to a lot more places to watch piss poor english/ scottish/ international football. I went to my nephews birthday party just up the road from cappielow on the afternoon of the french tribute game, nothing to do with him not being british or white, unless that is you are saying i'm racist, are you weedougie ?

 

Lets put it this way, on the basis of over a year of reading your opinions on various subjects. I genuinely believe you would have loved living in Nazi Germany. In fact I think you would have flourished in that climate. Read into that what you want.

 

And another thing weedoc. You were the one who put it on record you were not attending that match because of the French theme on the go. Not me.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

Was at a funeral today, over a thousand people celebrating the life of a young lad who lost his life recently. No matter what you think of it, the crumb of comfort his mum was taking at "he is in a better place now" is in some way helping her to get over the tragedy of burying her own son.

If religion confined its influence to giving bereavement comfort to the credulous I'd be cool with that.

[Guest David Edwards]

Was at a funeral today, over a thousand people celebrating the life of a young lad who lost his life recently. No matter what you think of it, the crumb of comfort his mum was taking at "he is in a better place now" is in some way helping her to get over the tragedy of burying her own son.

 

In such circumstances, the comfort that religious people draw from their faith is self evident and for me, almost enviable. As an unbeliever, I've always found it difficult to come to terms with a realisation that I'll never see lost loved ones again. Difficult, but for me, there's no alternative.

 

I was at the Crematorium today. The Minister spoke about Jesus for 35 minutes, and only managed 2 minutes on the person we had gathered to pay our respects to.

I wasn't sure if it was my mate, or Jesus, in the coffin.

 

I was at the crematorium a week ago last Saturday, at the funeral of my eldest brother. Like me, he had no religion, so we arranged for a humanist celebrant to conduct the funeral. She spoke for around 20 minutes (at least I think) giving a brief but personalised history of his life, describing good times and bad, delivering what we all considered to be a fine eulogy. I was choked with emotion but drew comfort from the tribute, from his memory.

 

My brother had been very ill for some time, suffering considerably. He told me at the end that he wanted to die. He told me he wasn't afraid. He told me he wanted peace.

I drew comfort from the fact that his suffering had ended. Difficult, so fecking difficult, but for me, no alternative.

[Rasta Ton]

You just answered your own question.

 

The bible, is proof. Eye witness accounts. Granted over 2,000 years old. But since science can't ressurect people from the dead, you will never get your chance to cross examine those people.

 

I love the absolute certainty that people place in science, despite there complete inability to cure the common cold.

 

Was at a funeral today, over a thousand people celebrating the life of a young lad who lost his life recently. No matter what you think of it, the crumb of comfort his mum was taking at "he is in a better place now" is in some way helping her to get over the tragedy of burying her own son.

 

So take your arrogance and shove it. you can not be 100% certain there is no god. cue wee doc with his "ive read the bible cover to cover piss".

Pascal's wager is I believe the term for what you describe.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

In such circumstances, the comfort that religious people draw from their faith is self evident and for me, almost enviable. As an unbeliever, I've always found it difficult to come to terms with a realisation that I'll never see lost loved ones again. Difficult, but for me, there's no alternative.

I was at the crematorium a week ago last Saturday, at the funeral of my eldest brother. Like me, he had no religion, so we arranged for a humanist celebrant to conduct the funeral. She spoke for around 20 minutes (at least I think) giving a brief but personalised history of his life, describing good times and bad, delivering what we all considered to be a fine eulogy. I was choked with emotion but drew comfort from the tribute, from his memory.

 

My brother had been very ill for some time, suffering considerably. He told me at the end that he wanted to die. He told me he wasn't afraid. He told me he wanted peace.

I drew comfort from the fact that his suffering had ended. Difficult, so fecking difficult, but for me, no alternative.

Really sorry to hear about your brother David, but by the sound of it is seems like it was release at the end. Awrabest anyway.

 

Given our advances in science and understanding, I wonder in this day in age how many religious people still genuinely believe in heaven and hell and an afterlife.

 

Some will of course, but I think there are probably many people who profess to following a religious faith don't believe it, or are at least extremely doubtful. Probably more that would admit, I'd wager. I think many cling onto the hope of seeing their loved ones again as a way cope coping, and that's of course not a bad thing. Surely though if they had 100% unquestioning certainly in heaven and the afterlife then they would be celebrating the death of a loved one, and not grieving, safe in the knowledge that they're in heaven and one day they will be re-united for eternity. I think the very act of grieving as a tacit admission of at least some degree of doubt.

[Dougie]

If religion confined its influence to giving bereavement comfort to the credulous I'd be cool with that.

 

So how else does religion influence your day to day life? In what way would your life be better? Can you not just respect other people's right to beleive? No matter how much you think they are bonkers? This whole debate does my head in.I honestly think some people beleive by posting what they beleive in they will change the opinions of those who have different beliefs. Another fine reflection on Scotlands complete and utter accept and intigrate its many cultures.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

So how else does religion influence your day to day life?

Well, as I live abroad now at least I'm no longer influenced by unelected Bishops in the House of Lords, so that's good. Here though I can't go shopping 3 Sundays out of 4 and the church bells at the bottom of the road do my nut in.

 

In what way would your life be better?

Get a long lie in a Sunday and go shopping every Sunday if I so wished.

 

Can you not just respect other people's right to beleive?

I do.

 

Another fine reflection on Scotlands complete and utter accept and intigrate its many cultures.

 

 

[bigdoc1874]

So how else does religion influence your day to day life? In what way would your life be better? Can you not just respect other people's right to beleive? No matter how much you think they are bonkers? This whole debate does my head in.I honestly think some people beleive by posting what they beleive in they will change the opinions of those who have different beliefs. Another fine reflection on Scotlands complete and utter accept and intigrate its many cultures.

 

The thing is Dougie, no slanging match anymore, religion is forced upon us, from laws to moral behaviour. No atheism is dictated by law, religion is. As an pretty strong believer in an atheist standpoint, which is based on fact, not faith, should i have my life hindered by a belief in the spiritual ?

[Joe1874]

The thing is Dougie, no slanging match anymore, religion is forced upon us, from laws to moral behaviour. No atheism is dictated by law, religion is. As an pretty strong believer in an atheist standpoint, which is based on fact, not faith, should i have my life hindered by a belief in the spiritual ?

 

Agree to an extent, no one forces folk to go in their own time to church but the likes of religious studies within schools should be removed as school is about education, not forced beliefs.

[ThornTON]

Simple answer to this debate.

 

Schroedinger's cat.

[Guest David Edwards]

Really sorry to hear about your brother David, but by the sound of it is seems like it was release at the end. Awrabest anyway.

 

Thank you.

 

Given our advances in science and understanding, I wonder in this day in age how many religious people still genuinely believe in heaven and hell and an afterlife.

 

Still quite a few I think, maybe not so much in hell but more in heaven and an afterlife. Especially those of a certain age, when the curtain is getting ready to fall. Hope and faith aren't one and the same but they often travel together.

[ThornTON]

Agree to an extent, no one forces folk to go in their own time to church but the likes of religious studies within schools should be removed as school is about education, not forced beliefs.

You're not forced in the slightest to believe anything in RE, almost all of the stuff taught in the curriculum is the other world religions. There is no preaching at all, and most of it is very interesting and more of a cross between history and cultural studies.