AyrshireTon Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 After some research, I have managed to get the breakdown of the meetings between the clubs. Ignoring the Renfrewshire Cup games, and treating the one game which went to penalties as a draw, here it all is. Morton wins - 58, draws - 34, St. Mirren wins - 73 The breakdown for each competition is (listed in order as Morton/draw/St. Mirren) League - 53/31/61 Scottish Cup - 0/0/6* League Cup - 3/2/7 Challenge Cup - 0/1/1 Spring Cup - 2/0/0 * there is some conflict regarding the correct score for the first ever competitive meeting. The game finished 5-1 at Love Street. More sources list St. Mirren as winning than Morton, but there is enough discrepancy to cast some doubt. Managers - again listed as Morton/draw/St. Mirren. I have taken the change-overs to be close season, except in more recent years, where the dates of new managers starting was known. Note of any errors would be appreciated. Manager not known (pre-1904) - 3/2/4* George Morell (1904–1908) - 2/1/6 Bob Cochrane (1908–1927) - 20/9/9 David Torrance (1928–1931) - 2/1/1 Bob Cochrane (1931–1934) - 0/2/2 Jackie Wright (1934–1938) - 2/0/2 Jimmy Davies (1939–1955) - 8/4/4 Hal Stewart (1961–1972) - 4/6/4 Joe Gilroy (1975–1976) - 3/1/0 Benny Rooney (1976–1983) - 6/5/14 Tommy McLean (1983–1984) - 0/0/1 Willie McLean (1984–1985) - 1/0/3 Allan McGraw (1985–1997) - 4/4/16 Billy Stark (1997–2000) - 3/2/5 Ian McCall (2000) - 0/0/1 Dave McPherson (2002) - 0/0/1 Jim McInally (2004–2008) -0/1/0 Hats off to Joe Gilroy for never losing a derby. Bob Cochrane won more than half (as well as the Scottish Cup) in his first (long) spell as manager and even after adding on his 2nd stint, his record overall remains impressive. Interesting that since the late 70s, results have taken a major swing towards St. Mirren. The number of Benny Rooney's losses was a surprise to see, although there was a geniunely decent St. Mirren side at the time. Allan McGraw stated that games against them (and Clydebank) were impossible to predict - make of that what you will. Barry Lavety would be a better reason for the defeats. Until the clubs began to meet 4 times a season, the balance was definitely in our favour. Highest Morton win - Morton 6-1 St. Mirren (1946 LC) Highest away win - St. Mirren 1-5 Morton (1999) Highest St. Mirren win - St. Mirren 7-0 Morton (1938) Highest away win - Morton 0-4 St. Mirren (1984) Highest scoring draw - Morton 3-3 St. Mirren (1915) Most goals in a game (9) St. Mirren 5-4 Morton (1935) Morton 3-6 St. Mirren (1977) Longest unbeaten runs Morton (12) - 1917 to 1922 St. Mirren (10) - 1980 to 1982 McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up. Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control... That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy B Ton Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Cracking stats. Can't believe you spent the time to put that together. Rothesay Ton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 After some research, I have managed to get the breakdown of the meetings between the clubs. Ignoring the Renfrewshire Cup games, and treating the one game which went to penalties as a draw, here it all is. Morton wins - 58, draws - 34, St. Mirren wins - 72 The breakdown for each competition is (listed in order as Morton/draw/St. Mirren) League - 53/31/61 Scottish Cup - 0/0/6* League Cup - 3/2/6 Challenge Cup - 0/1/1 Spring Cup - 2/0/0 * there is some conflict regarding the correct score for the first ever competitive meeting. The game finished 5-1 at Love Street. More sources list St. Mirren as winning than Morton, but there is enough discrepancy to cast some doubt. Managers - again listed as Morton/draw/St. Mirren. I have taken the change-overs to be close season, except in more recent years, where the dates of new managers starting was known. Note of any errors would be appreciated. Manager not known (pre-1904) - 3/2/4* George Morell (1904–1908) - 2/1/6 Bob Cochrane (1908–1927) - 20/9/9 David Torrance (1928–1931) - 2/1/1 Bob Cochrane (1931–1934) - 0/2/2 Jackie Wright (1934–1938) - 2/0/2 Jimmy Davies (1939–1955) - 8/4/4 Hal Stewart (1961–1972) - 4/6/4 Joe Gilroy (1975–1976) - 3/1/0 Benny Rooney (1976–1983) - 6/5/14 Tommy McLean (1983–1984) - 0/0/1 Willie McLean (1984–1985) - 1/0/3 Allan McGraw (1985–1997) - 4/4/15 Billy Stark (1997–2000) - 3/2/5 Ian McCall (2000) - 0/0/1 Dave McPherson (2002) - 0/0/1 Jim McInally (2004–2008) -0/1/0 Hats off to Joe Gilroy for never losing a derby. Bob Cochrane won more than half (as well as the Scottish Cup) in his first (long) spell as manager and even after adding on his 2nd stint, his record overall remains impressive. Interesting that since the late 70s, results have taken a major swing towards St. Mirren. The number of Benny Rooney's losses was a surprise to see, although there was a geniunely decent St. Mirren side at the time. Allan McGraw stated that games against them (and Clydebank) were impossible to predict - make of that what you will. Barry Lavety would be a better reason for the defeats. Until the clubs began to meet 4 times a season, the balance was definitely in our favour. Highest Morton win - Morton 6-1 St. Mirren (1946 LC) Highest away win - St. Mirren 1-5 Morton (1999) Highest St. Mirren win - St. Mirren 7-0 Morton (1938) Highest away win - Morton 0-4 St. Mirren (1984) Highest scoring draw - Morton 3-3 St. Mirren (1915) Most goals in a game (9) St. Mirren 5-4 Morton (1935) Morton 3-6 St. Mirren (1977) Longest unbeaten runs Morton (12) - 1917 to 1922 St. Mirren (10) - 1980 to 1982 Still none the wiser about that Scottish Cup game in 1882-83, but on reading your signature a few weeks ago I was wondering how you would define certain games- I see you've marked Dave McPherson as losing his only Renfrewshire derby, which was infact a draw after 90 minutes, 2-2 in a League Cup First Round game, September 2002 before Yardley scored his wonder goal. Suppose it's all down to interpretation, but some folk may read the stats differently from others. Similarly, others may consider the Challenge Cup semi final in 2005 to be a defeat rather than a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainMorton Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Similarly, others may consider the Challenge Cup semi final in 2005 to be a defeat rather than a draw. That one hurt more than the play off defeat at Peterhead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Cracking stats. Can't believe you spent the time to put that together. Didn't take that long TBH. Typing in all of our results ever into a spreadsheet took ages, but had done that a while ago. Once they were done (and I'm still finding errors) I was just a copy and paste. Could do our record against any side if needed (even the mighty Port). Toby - it is indeed in the eye of the beholder, as it will be for anyone who wants to stick the data onto Wkipedia (I'm not very web-wise). The information on Morton on that site is pretty minimal and I have no idea how to add to it. There's even a page on the Renfrewshire derbies and it would be good if it could be as informative as (for example) the Hearts-Hibs one. McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up. Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control... That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawston Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Didn't take that long TBH. Typing in all of our results ever into a spreadsheet took ages, but had done that a while ago. Once they were done (and I'm still finding errors) I was just a copy and paste. Could do our record against any side if needed (even the mighty Port). All the results ever? The pre-50's ones must've been a huge challenge, more than a few hours spent in the MacLean museum I'm guessing. I love stats like these, be great if you do manage to get them onto Wiki. Along the track the train came puffin, Morton 1 Celtic nuffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy B Ton Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I think less work has been put into 4th year dissertations Ayrshire Ton. Rothesay Ton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 All the results ever? The pre-50's ones must've been a huge challenge, more than a few hours spent in the MacLean museum I'm guessing. I love stats like these, be great if you do manage to get them onto Wiki. I bought a book listing all Scottish Senior results until the mid-90s. Getting the results from the (two) European games, Texaco Cup, Anglo-Scottish Cup, Dryborough Cup and Spring Cup took a little more digging (old programmes came in handy). Excel took care of the sorting, although it refused to recognise dates before 1900. Pre-50s ones were fascinating, especially the 1930s when Scotland had 3 big leagues of 20 or so each (letting everyone and their granny in to make a team up). Most clubs never returned to the senior set-up after the War. I think less work has been put into 4th year dissertations Ayrshire Ton. McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up. Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control... That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazed'n'confused Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Cracking stats. Can't believe you spent the time to put that together. I can! your a font of knowledge A.T.! SNP - STRONGER FOR SCOTLAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_panther Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Re the Scottish Cup Game 1882-83. I have it as follows:- CAPPIELOW WIN 5-1 Season 1882-83 16/09/1882 Johnstone Rovers SCup1 H W 2 - 1 30/09/1882 Saint Mirren SCup2 H W 5 - 1 ( 3 - 1 ) 28/10/1882 Johnstone SCup3 A L 1 - 2 Also the following St.Mirren site has it the same http://www.stmirren.info/id229.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 OK - I've missed a game out. A 4-1 home defeat in 28th August 1985 in the Skol Cup. Anyone know who was our manager at the time (I'll go back and edit the original post)? McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up. Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control... That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axeman Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 A 4-1 home defeat in 28th August 1985 in the Skol Cup. Anyone know who was our manager at the time (I'll go back and edit the original post)? August 85 would have been Allan McGraw's first season AT. I'd love to have you both for dinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 August 85 would have been Allan McGraw's first season AT. Cheers - amended (I think). McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up. Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control... That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I bought a book listing all Scottish Senior results until the mid-90s. Getting the results from the (two) European games, Texaco Cup, Anglo-Scottish Cup, Dryborough Cup and Spring Cup took a little more digging (old programmes came in handy). Excel took care of the sorting, although it refused to recognise dates before 1900. Pre-50s ones were fascinating, especially the 1930s when Scotland had 3 big leagues of 20 or so each (letting everyone and their granny in to make a team up). Most clubs never returned to the senior set-up after the War. I've got that book lying in a cupboard somewhere, great source of information. I could never be arsed properly compiling statistics though. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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