puggsy_ton Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It was all a simple misunderstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Edwards Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Cheers Barbie-that gives me courage to elaborate a bit on the two 'Asian' guys at my partner's work. They both see themselves as Glaswegians, and indeed one (Stewart) has a Pakistani Dad and a Scottish mother while Ateeq's parents were both from Pakistan. Now it's a big office where those guys are both very popular. Stewart is known as 'The half caste', while Ateeq is simply 'The P a k i'. Not only do they accept the nicknames-they enjoy them. One of Ateeq's favourite 'put downs' of his mate is apparently- 'Well at least I'm a REAL P a k i' !! That's just another wee true story to add to Andy M's and yours. Tends to get it up the PC arseholes on here methinks! I remember having a debate with you on this board some years ago about this subject MJ. You'll not be surprised that we still disagree. What you describe has not been my experience of living in Glasgow's South Side for 25 years and working in Govanhill for the past 13 years. I have friends, acquaintances and work colleagues of South Asian origin and to the best of my knowledge, none of them are comfortable being referred to as 'P a k i s' by white people. True, they may not be greatly offended depending on the circumstances, unless of course the term is coupled with expletives. I understand that they use the term amongst themselves, but usually in a self-deriding way, similar to the way some Black Americans use 'n i g g a h'. If such terms can cause offence where no offence is intended then I think they're best avoided. Call me a PC arsehole if you like, I don't care (and won't take offence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortonjag Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I remember having a debate with you on this board some years ago about this subject MJ. You'll not be surprised that we still disagree. What you describe has not been my experience of living in Glasgow's South Side for 25 years and working in Govanhill for the past 13 years. I have friends, acquaintances and work colleagues of South Asian origin and to the best of my knowledge, none of them are comfortable being referred to as 'P a k i s' by white people. True, they may not be greatly offended depending on the circumstances, unless of course the term is coupled with expletives. I understand that they use the term amongst themselves, but usually in a self-deriding way, similar to the way some Black Americans use 'n i g g a h'. If such terms can cause offence where no offence is intended then I think they're best avoided. Call me a PC arsehole if you like, I don't care (and won't take offence). Your 'friends, acquaintances, and work colleagues' may perhaps be a select middle class bunch Mr Edwards! I too have spent many years living in the South Side-I've been in the Pollokshaws/Newlands/Shawlands area for over five years and also lived in the Mearns for over ten. More importantly, in my job, I've been in and out of literally thousands of 'Asian' homes and have got to know many 'Asian' familes extremely well. Those contacts are entirely separate from my own 'Asian' friends acquaintances and one time work colleagues. I'm merely stating this to balance yet another feeble attempt to endorse the labelling of the word 'p a k i' per se as a racist term, which, in Glasgow at least, it is for the vast majority of the time, simply NOT! Having read your post again, however, I note that your multitudinous contacts don't actually appear to see it that way either. Call me a 'quack' if you will. I find that word quite offensive to honest law abiding ducks. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they pretend to befriend you, then you win! YER BARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBI1978 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I remember having a debate with you on this board some years ago about this subject MJ. You'll not be surprised that we still disagree. What you describe has not been my experience of living in Glasgow's South Side for 25 years and working in Govanhill for the past 13 years. I have friends, acquaintances and work colleagues of South Asian origin and to the best of my knowledge, none of them are comfortable being referred to as 'P a k i s' by white people. True, they may not be greatly offended depending on the circumstances, unless of course the term is coupled with expletives. I understand that they use the term amongst themselves, but usually in a self-deriding way, similar to the way some Black Americans use 'n i g g a h'. If such terms can cause offence where no offence is intended then I think they're best avoided. Call me a PC arsehole if you like, I don't care (and won't take offence). I have similar experience to yourself. Lived in the South Side of Glasgow for 24 years and went to school at a well know mixed race school in Shawlands - the term Pak1 was very much taken as an offensive term then. This was over 10 year ago mind you and thing may have changed. My opinion is why use the term if it may cause offence, people from Pakistan are Pakistani, people from India are Indian etc, I can't see the problem with that. PS MJ you cant call my experience middle class Shawlands Academy, I dont think so !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Edwards Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Your 'friends, acquaintances, and work colleagues' may perhaps be a select middle class bunch Mr Edwards! I too have spent many years living in the South Side-I've been in the Pollokshaws/Newlands/Shawlands area for over five years and also lived in the Mearns for over ten. More importantly, in my job, I've been in and out of literally thousands of 'Asian' homes and have got to know many 'Asian' familes extremely well. Those contacts are entirely separate from my own 'Asian' friends acquaintances and one time work colleagues. I'm merely stating this to balance yet another feeble attempt to endorse the labelling of the word 'p a k i' per se as a racist term, which, in Glasgow at least, it is, for the vast majority of the time, simply NOT! Having read your post again, however, I note that your multitudinous contacts don't actually appear to see it that way either. Call me a 'quack' if you will. I find that word quite offensive to honest law abiding ducks. No, my friends acquaintances and colleagues are drawn from all classes (and castes). You'll maybe know that Asian folks have a mildly derogotary term for White folks : 'Gora' in Hindi /Urdu and 'Tubob' in Punjabi. It means 'whitey'. Apologies Mentaljag, I'll never call you a quack again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midTONs Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 people from Pakistan are Pakistani, people from India are Indian etc, I can't see the problem with that. People from Scotland are Scottish, I take you will see the same problem with us being referred to as Scots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJCTON Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 That's why you do it? Mate, I have tolerance for people who hate all the political correctness, and sometimes over top nature of it, I sure do. But you are going the opposite way? does this explain what this is about I have no compunction in saying that if some chap starts throwing grenades or starts using pistols, we shall kill him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cet Homme Charmant Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 People from Scotland are Scottish, I take you will see the same problem with us being referred to as Scots? The word 'Scot' is not a 'nickname' or shortening of Scottish, it's a recognised word in its own right and used ourselves in terms such as 'Scot's Law', 'Mary Queen of Scots', etc. Indeed as we are named after the Scotti tribe 'Scot' is probably more applicable than 'Scottish'. In other words, your repeated attempts to imply it's similar to 'Pak1' are futile, inaccurate and incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midTONs Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The word Scots is not a 'nickname' or shortening of Scottish, it's a recognised word in its own right and used ourselves in terms such as 'Scot's Law'. In other words, your repeated attempts to imply it's similar to 'Pak1' are futile, inaccurate and incorrect. So are you saying the word Pak1 does not get used and is not accepted within the Pakistani community, if it does then is it only when the white man uses the word it becomes racist? If thats the case then who the feck is being racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortonjag Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have similar experience to yourself. Lived in the South Side of Glasgow for 24 years and went to school at a well know mixed race school in Shawlands - the term Pak1 was very much taken as an offensive term then. This was over 10 year ago mind you and thing may have changed. My opinion is why use the term if it may cause offence, people from Pakistan are Pakistani, people from India are Indian etc, I can't see the problem with that. PS MJ you cant call my experience middle class Shawlands Academy, I dont think so !!!! I wouldn't even call that a school-but that's another story! I guess it goes back to what was originally said. If it's used in a deliberately offensive way (as often happens among schoolkids) it's not on. No, my friends acquaintances and colleagues are drawn from all classes (and castes). You'll maybe know that Asian folks have a mildly derogotary term for White folks : 'Gora' in Hindi /Urdu and 'Tubob' in Punjabi. It means 'whitey'. Apologies Mentaljag, I'll never call you a quack again. But that's the whole point Mr Edwards-you're trying to argue that a word should be banned just because it MAY cause offence, and that's where 'Political Correctness' loses its way. 'P a k i' can be extremely offensive in certain circumstances. So can 'fatty' 'tich', 'four eyes', and so on, and PLEASE do not refer to my monkey as an ape. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they pretend to befriend you, then you win! YER BARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJCTON Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The word Scots is not a 'nickname' or shortening of Scottish, it's a recognised word in its own right and used ourselves in terms such as 'Scot's Law'. In other words, your repeated attempts to imply it's similar to 'Pak1' are futile, inaccurate and incorrect. as far as i am concerned its all a load if nonsense and a shortening of what country the peopla are from pak1, chinky etc i aint offended to be called scots or jock or sweaty sock to be honest i coulnt give a flying flock because as far as i am concerned the pc mob have gone to town and ruined a lot of what used to be good ie banter, used in the right way it can be humerous and perk folk up. PC monkeys can bolt as far as i am concerned as for harry, who really cares or should we have him beheaded. I have no compunction in saying that if some chap starts throwing grenades or starts using pistols, we shall kill him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not related to the topic but were you the big chap who came into the manzil last night around 10.30ish? Yes - more than likely - I was in and out of there all evening. Was it you who came in pished around about that time and slevered all over the counter? If things don't change, they'll stay the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ya Crab Fly sideways with Crabair - fly over exotic places, and bomb them ! If things don't change, they'll stay the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBI1978 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 People from Scotland are Scottish, I take you will see the same problem with us being referred to as Scots? I would rather be called Scottish,so yes, however I am not that bothered TBH. I am unaware of any issues with the use of the abbreviation "Scots" however if there were issues then yes I think there should be a case for it not be used. I do not see the problem with being called Scottish though. I am just informing people of my experience just as other have done earlier in this thread. MJ is giving the impression that he speaks of behalf of the whole of Glasgow but I am just putting the view forward that I do not believe that is the case. He knows people who are not offended and I know people who are/were. Just trying to balance up the views Again, my experience, is that the use of the word Pak1 caused a lot of racial tension in my school years, and at that time you would never use it, even as a joke. Maybe it was a sign of the times but I have seen some pretty violent stuff kicking off when this term has been used in a jokey way and not taken that way by the recipient. At lot of this violence was between Pakistani's and Indian's also. Me personally, I just don't use these terms as I "learned" at school that offence may be caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe1874 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes - more than likely - I was in and out of there all evening. Was it you who came in pished around about that time and slevered all over the counter? Pardon . No I was sober lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortonjag Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 as far as i am concerned its all a load if nonsense and a shortening of what country the peopla are from pak1, chinky etc i aint offended to be called scots or jock or sweaty sock to be honest i coulnt give a flying flock because as far as i am concerned the pc mob have gone to town and ruined a lot of what used to be good ie banter, used in the right way it can be humerous and perk folk up. PC monkeys can bolt as far as i am concerned as for harry, who really cares or should we have him beheaded. For using that unmentionable word he deserves worse! Trouble is that the same fairies who object to it are too weak kneed for capital punishment! First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they pretend to befriend you, then you win! YER BARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cet Homme Charmant Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 So are you saying the word Pak1 does not get used and is not accepted within the Pakistani community, if it does then is it only when the white man uses the word it becomes racist? If thats the case then who the feck is being racist? I've not accused you of being racist on this thread, have I? Are you inferring that I am? Deep down I think you know the point that's being made here. Jim, if you want to continue using the word 'Pak1' and see absolutely nothing wrong in that then that's up to you. But you're obviously not daft and therefore you must know that in some circumstances your use of that word can cause offense. That obviously doesn't bother you, and that's your choice, but why on earth you point blankly refuse to just say 'Pakistani' to avoid causing such unnecessary offense, only you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggsy_ton Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I would rather be called Scottish,so yes, however I am not that bothered TBH. I am unaware of any issues with the use of the abbreviation "Scots" however if there were issues then yes I think there should be a case for it not be used. I do not see the problem with being called Scottish though. I am just informing people of my experience just as other have done earlier in this thread. MJ is giving the impression that he speaks of behalf of the whole of Glasgow but I am just putting the view forward that I do not believe that is the case. He knows people who are not offended and I know people who are/were. Just trying to balance up the views Again, my experience, is that the use of the word Pak1 caused a lot of racial tension in my school years, and at that time you would never use it, even as a joke. Maybe it was a sign of the times but I have seen some pretty violent stuff kicking off when this term has been used in a jokey way and not taken that way by the recipient. At lot of this violence was between Pakistani's and Indian's also. Me personally, I just don't use these terms as I "learned" at school that offence may be caused. Don't worry...I'm sure your experience wont match whatever the jag has to say about it <_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midTONs Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I would rather be called Scottish,so yes, however I am not that bothered TBH. I am unaware of any issues with the use of the abbreviation "Scots" however if there were issues then yes I think there should be a case for it not be used. I do not see the problem with being called Scottish though. I am just informing people of my experience just as other have done earlier in this thread. MJ is giving the impression that he speaks of behalf of the whole of Glasgow but I am just putting the view forward that I do not believe that is the case. He knows people who are not offended and I know people who are/were. Just trying to balance up the views Again, my experience, is that the use of the word Pak1 caused a lot of racial tension in my school years, and at that time you would never use it, even as a joke. Maybe it was a sign of the times but I have seen some pretty violent stuff kicking off when this term has been used in a jokey way and not taken that way by the recipient. At lot of this violence was between Pakistani's and Indian's also. Me personally, I just don't use these terms as I "learned" at school that offence may be caused. If it was such a bad and offensive word then why do they have this? <a href="http://*potential ethnic slur removed*.com/" target="_blank">PAK1.COM</a> edit to add - that just shows you how fecking ridiculous this place is getting that I couldn't put a link on here to a legitimate Pakistani website GET A GRIP The problem lies with you lot, and those who like to be victims, not very one uses the word in a derogatory way, it should be remembered that just about every word can be made to sound bad. This was my last word on this thread. Some people are so tolerant they cannot agree when to take a p1ss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBI1978 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I wouldn't even call that a school-but that's another story! :lol: :lol: as far as i am concerned its all a load if nonsense and a shortening of what country the peopla are from pak1, chinky etc i aint offended to be called scots or jock or sweaty sock to be honest i coulnt give a flying flock because as far as i am concerned the pc mob have gone to town and ruined a lot of what used to be good ie banter, used in the right way it can be humerous and perk folk up. PC monkeys can bolt as far as i am concerned as for harry, who really cares or should we have him beheaded. Again in my experience, at my school this was NOT banter. Honestly this caused running battles in the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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