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Jamie_M

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Genuine question:  Do footballers actually need the all of the "Summer Break" to recover?  Because its a long time for a business like a football club to go without income.

 

I know its traditional to have such a break, and then "ease" back into the league with a couple of cup ties, but may be something more radical could be served up for the Summer?  The idea of a day-long "tournament" sounds interesting, especially at a time of year there's a half decent chance of good weather.  Went to the Rugby Sevens at the Commonwealth Games, spent most of the day there and loved it - and I HATE rugby.

 

So how about a Summer tournament with (say) half a dozen teams competing in short matches (30 minutes?), may be unlimited subs, may be a radical points system to determine the winner (how about just goals scored? or goal difference? even a bonus for a goal scored by the goalie?).  Get families in, make money on the catering.

 

Like all such things may require some experimentation to get it right, so it might be a season or two till its perfect.  And if we could have a series of tournaments, then perhaps there would be no need for the early cup ties?

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Football should cease mid-May and start at the end of August. It should be banned during the summer months. Summer is the cricket season.

Football is ubiquitous. I was on the Liverpool-Belfast ferry last night and they were showing games from 2010.

Gies a break.

MARTY OUT!!!!!

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Genuine question:  Do footballers actually need the all of the "Summer Break" to recover?  Because its a long time for a business like a football club to go without income.

 

I know its traditional to have such a break, and then "ease" back into the league with a couple of cup ties, but may be something more radical could be served up for the Summer?  The idea of a day-long "tournament" sounds interesting, especially at a time of year there's a half decent chance of good weather.  Went to the Rugby Sevens at the Commonwealth Games, spent most of the day there and loved it - and I HATE rugby.

 

So how about a Summer tournament with (say) half a dozen teams competing in short matches (30 minutes?), may be unlimited subs, may be a radical points system to determine the winner (how about just goals scored? or goal difference? even a bonus for a goal scored by the goalie?).  Get families in, make money on the catering.

 

Like all such things may require some experimentation to get it right, so it might be a season or two till its perfect.  And if we could have a series of tournaments, then perhaps there would be no need for the early cup ties?

 

Good idea - we should decline entry in long-established tournaments with reasonable amounts of prize money to play bounce games with chubsters from Arran and Selkirk.

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Good idea - we should decline entry in long-established tournaments with reasonable amounts of prize money to play bounce games with chubsters from Arran and Selkirk.

Where did I suggest that?  I'm talking about a genuine, high profile replacement to the current set up.  Scottish football needs to try and do new things, not just regurgitate a tired formula that is no longer sufficiently attractive.  So a 5-way tournament with Morton against (say) St Mirren, Dumbarton, Kilmarnock, and Queens Park (names chosen largely at random) in place of the first round of the Challenge Cup doesn't appeal?

 

Football needs to start thinking outside the box - and may be that example isn't the right one, but perpetuating formulaic league and cup structures also isn't sensible.  At least one, if not both, of the League Cup and Challenge Cup needs a new format, including some experiments with new rules or such like.

 

Look at cricket and see how its evolved its formats (without losing the basic underlying county and test structures, for those purists who really can't miss a 3 or 5 day match).

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Where did I suggest that?  I'm talking about a genuine, high profile replacement to the current set up.  Scottish football needs to try and do new things, not just regurgitate a tired formula that is no longer sufficiently attractive.  So a 5-way tournament with Morton against (say) St Mirren, Dumbarton, Kilmarnock, and Queens Park (names chosen largely at random) in place of the first round of the Challenge Cup doesn't appeal?

 

Football needs to start thinking outside the box - and may be that example isn't the right one, but perpetuating formulaic league and cup structures also isn't sensible.  At least one, if not both, of the League Cup and Challenge Cup needs a new format, including some experiments with new rules or such like.

 

Look at cricket and see how its evolved its formats (without losing the basic underlying county and test structures, for those purists who really can't miss a 3 or 5 day match).

 

The thing is that it's not a fresh idea. The League Cup used to be a group-based competition, which shows how much you know about football in Scotland. The fact is that nobody cared about it and it added too many early-season fixtures, so we went back to a knockout competition. Some countries have kept a sectional League Cup. Portugal is one of these and nobody there gives a fuck about it.

 

We're already playing St. Mirren and Dumbarton four times next season; if you play St. Mirren too much it devalues it, and nobody is going to queue around the block for a game against Queen's Park. Kilmarnock fans, meanwhile, will be punching the air at playing three totally dung outfits and St. Mirren.

 

In terms of shorter games, in Italy there was the Trofeo TIM (not to be mistaken for the TIM Cup) each season with three sixty-minute games between Milan, Inter, and Juve, and it was ignored by most people because it's so clearly a cash-in. It became such a grotesque, low-tempo spectacle that eventually Inter even withdrew. I have no idea if the Trofeo is still on the go, but if you fuck about with the rules so much that not even the biggest three teams in Italy can draw an audience, I'm not really sure the Cowshed would be heaving for a thrilling contest with Ayr and Partick Thistle.

 

Almost everything you've said has either already been tried or is almost unspeakably inane. Football absolutely does not need to think outside the box, because football fans know stupid gimmickry when they see it. Football needs to focus on its strengths - and as by far the world's most popular sport it's fair to say it has one or two.

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The thing is that it's not a fresh idea. The League Cup used to be a group-based competition, which shows how much you know about football in Scotland. The fact is that nobody cared about it and it added too many early-season fixtures, so we went back to a knockout competition. Some countries have kept a sectional League Cup. Portugal is one of these and nobody there gives a **** about it.

 

We're already playing St. Mirren and Dumbarton four times next season; if you play St. Mirren too much it devalues it, and nobody is going to queue around the block for a game against Queen's Park. Kilmarnock fans, meanwhile, will be punching the air at playing three totally dung outfits and St. Mirren.

 

In terms of shorter games, in Italy there was the Trofeo TIM (not to be mistaken for the TIM Cup) each season with three sixty-minute games between Milan, Inter, and Juve, and it was ignored by most people because it's so clearly a cash-in. It became such a grotesque, low-tempo spectacle that eventually Inter even withdrew. I have no idea if the Trofeo is still on the go, but if you **** about with the rules so much that not even the biggest three teams in Italy can draw an audience, I'm not really sure the Cowshed would be heaving for a thrilling contest with Ayr and Partick Thistle.

 

Almost everything you've said has either already been tried or is almost unspeakably inane. Football absolutely does not need to think outside the box, because football fans know stupid gimmickry when they see it. Football needs to focus on its strengths - and as by far the world's most popular sport it's fair to say it has one or two.

I'm not saying its never been tried, and I'm not saying it will work now if it failed before.  But I'm far from convinced that football - at Scottish club level - can simply say that everything's rosy, it has the crowds it needs to survive in its current form, and therefore no need to innovate or experiment.

 

Perhaps a day-long tournament focused on families (ie not just the usual suspects who are expected to part with their money week-in, week-out) like I suggested isn't the best idea, but I'm convinced that we do need to think outside the box to generate additional income, and tap into spectators who would not generally turn up for a run of the mill league games.

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Based on what, exactly?

 

He might have been poor, but does that really make him a ****?

 

Based on the way he conducted himself on Twitter at the end of the relegation season.

 

For avoidance of doubt I don't really hope he gets a career-ending injury but he's still an absolute wank and I wouldn't be especially bothered if he did.

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I'm not saying its never been tried, and I'm not saying it will work now if it failed before.  But I'm far from convinced that football - at Scottish club level - can simply say that everything's rosy, it has the crowds it needs to survive in its current form, and therefore no need to innovate or experiment.

 

Perhaps a day-long tournament focused on families (ie not just the usual suspects who are expected to part with their money week-in, week-out) like I suggested isn't the best idea, but I'm convinced that we do need to think outside the box to generate additional income, and tap into spectators who would not generally turn up for a run of the mill league games.

 

Scottish football easily has the crowds it needs to survive in its current form. It needs more diverse revenue in the form of commercial and media income, where it's especially poor (our TV deals are wholly inadequate for a country our size.)

 

Folk who aren't going to show up for a competitive league game aren't going to show up for some glorified friendlies unless the opposition is something special. Folk who aren't showing up for Morton-Dumbarton in the league aren't going to do so for the Rampage Nu Sport Invitational.

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Based on the way he conducted himself on Twitter at the end of the relegation season.

 

For avoidance of doubt I don't really hope he gets a career-ending injury but he's still an absolute w**k and I wouldn't be especially bothered if he did.

 

Aye, i should hope not...

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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Scottish football easily has the crowds it needs to survive in its current form. It needs more diverse revenue in the form of commercial and media income, where it's especially poor (our TV deals are wholly inadequate for a country our size.)

 

Folk who aren't going to show up for a competitive league game aren't going to show up for some glorified friendlies unless the opposition is something special. Folk who aren't showing up for Morton-Dumbarton in the league aren't going to do so for the Rampage Nu Sport Invitational.

Why bother with the Challenge and League cups at all then? We couldn't even get a 4 figure crowd in 3 of the 5 home ties in these competitions this season.

 

The question is this: does a game against Dumbarton create more interest if a win is essential in topping a mini league with St Mirren in it? That's an open question btw, I'm not sure of the answer. To put it a different way, is there a way in which clubs can capitalise on the interest in local rivalries to make at least one of the lesser cup competitions more interesting (without diminishing those rivalries)?

 

I don't think it's wrong to think outside the box a little bit. Our season at the moment is bloated with standard national cup competitions, and only one of the three has really retained a real sense of importance. There had to be something at stake, and at present the early rounds of the lesser cup competitions fail to give that feeling that there's something really at stake.

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You've turned into a bit of a n00b lately. 

 

Give him a specific answer - he's only asking a question.

 

Or he could just go to "Big Tony's" Twitter, or indeed my Twitter, and see for himself.

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You've turned into a bit of a n00b lately. 

 

Give him a specific answer - he's only asking a question.

 

Lately? 

 

Or he could just go to "Big Tony's" Twitter, or indeed my Twitter, and see for himself.

 

If only I had the time to trawl back Twitter posts from over a year ago...

TTG JIM!!!
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Why bother with the Challenge and League cups at all then? We couldn't even get a 4 figure crowd in 3 of the 5 home ties in these competitions this season.

 

The question is this: does a game against Dumbarton create more interest if a win is essential in topping a mini league with St Mirren in it? That's an open question btw, I'm not sure of the answer. To put it a different way, is there a way in which clubs can capitalise on the interest in local rivalries to make at least one of the lesser cup competitions more interesting (without diminishing those rivalries)?

 

I don't think it's wrong to think outside the box a little bit. Our season at the moment is bloated with standard national cup competitions, and only one of the three has really retained a real sense of importance. There had to be something at stake, and at present the early rounds of the lesser cup competitions fail to give that feeling that there's something really at stake.

 

You will never, ever get the bigger club in the equation to acknowledge a meeting as undiminished. St. Mirren fans already don't care about the "Renny" - turn the League Cup or even the Challenge Cup into this kind of thing and they're going to feel the same way about that competition as well. Same with Morton fans and Dumbarton - we don't even care about meeting them in the league, even though some of them see it as a local rivalry.

 

Shoehorning in more 'crowd-pleasing' fixtures is the exact, literal opposite of thinking outside the box. Fucking about with the rules to play 30-minute games is thinking outside the box, but then again it's also really stupid. Thinking outside the box is piss easy - thinking outside the box well is extremely difficult.

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