Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 We're getting on too well tonight! Is that basically what the catechism is? Religion's really something I don't take a great interest in but living in the west of Scotland it's difficult not to form an opinion re: sectarianism. Don't think I'll comment on that one, dignified silence would be in everyone's interest. Pretty much - it explains certain aspects of the Bible and the Catholic Church's stances on certain moral issues. With regards to the "Hail Marys" thing - although I'm sure it was said in jest is something that needs clearing up. There's a myth that Catholics believe if you merely confess any sin you go to heaven - it's not quite that simple. If you just sit there and tell the Priest you're sorry and don't mean it, it doesn't automatically mean you go to Heaven. Even if you do mean it you'll probably still end up in Purgatory. The same goes for most Protestant Churches as far as I know - if you privately confess to God and honestly believe it you will be forgiven - but it's not as simple as just saying the words "I'm sorry". The only Protestant Churches I have an issue with on this are the ones that teach pre-destination (although I don't know if many do anymore) - I know Ian Paisley's lot hint strongly towards it with their beliefs. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawheed rex Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Pretty much - it explains certain aspects of the Bible and the Catholic Church's stances on certain moral issues. With regards to the "Hail Marys" thing - although I'm sure it was said in jest is something that needs clearing up. There's a myth that Catholics believe if you merely confess any sin you go to heaven - it's not quite that simple. If you just sit there and tell the Priest you're sorry and don't mean it, it doesn't automatically mean you go to Heaven. Even if you do mean it you'll probably still end up in Purgatory. The same goes for most Protestant Churches as far as I know - if you privately confess to God and honestly believe it you will be forgiven - but it's not as simple as just saying the words "I'm sorry". The only Protestant Churches I have an issue with on this are the ones that teach pre-destination (although I don't know if many do anymore) - I know Ian Paisley's lot hint strongly towards it with their beliefs. what does it say about the first commandment and the pope how does that work. just a question genuinley . you know the bit about no false idols. is he classed as a servent or what. the fact he is worshiped by millions and the pilgrimage to the place where he is sounds like a contradiction but so is most of world religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 what does it say about the first commandment and the pope how does that work. just a question genuinley . you know the bit about no false idols It's a problem alot of other religious people have - especially Muslims actually - that we have a Pope. Catholics believe the Pope is God's representative on Earth - the Pope should never be worshipped as a God by Catholics - to do so would actually be blasphemous. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 It's a problem alot of other religious people have - especially Muslims actually - that we have a Pope. Catholics believe the Pope is God's representative on Earth - the Pope should never be worshipped as a God by Catholics - to do so would actually be blasphemous. Must admit it's the main issue with me. Your explination there seems fair enough but I've always found it to be against the principals of Christianity. I've always thought that Christians would consider everyone as equal so why Catholic's continue to ask for God to bless the Pope, as opposed to everyone bamboozles me. Unless it's just a line I only hear pissed up Celtic fans screaming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Must admit it's the main issue with me. Your explination there seems fair enough but I've always found it to be against the principals of Christianity. I've always thought that Christians would consider everyone as equal so why Catholic's continue to ask for God to bless the Pope, as opposed to everyone bamboozles me. Unless it's just a line I only hear pissed up Celtic fans screaming? Any Celtic or Rangers fan who is screaming is probably a Catholic or Protestant in name only. I don't have a problem with terms like "The Holy Goalie" etc as long as they're a bit of fun, but a lot of Celtic fans turn Catholic hymns into Celtic songs which I don't agree with. Some Rangers fans are just as bad; they'll sing songs about the Queen (despite being raised in the Church of Scotland which has no affiliation with the Queen) and wave the Union Flag yet claim to "hate e englush". In other words they're idiots. The worst of both are messed up. With regards to the Pope, Catholics believe he is part of a succession of Church leaders - the first being St Peter appointed by Jesus. Bidding prayers at Mass almost always call for God to look after the Pope, but also the Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and the general congregation - with a special mention for the sick etc. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mceleny Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Jesus himself indirectly created the 'post' of pope with saint peter being first pope of course. ''god bless the pope'' certainly a empty gesture by celtic fans but surely the man who is spiritual leader and head of a church that has perhaps 1,000,000,000 members needs prayed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Edwards Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Pretty much - it explains certain aspects of the Bible and the Catholic Church's stances on certain moral issues. With regards to the "Hail Marys" thing - although I'm sure it was said in jest is something that needs clearing up. There's a myth that Catholics believe if you merely confess any sin you go to heaven - it's not quite that simple. If you just sit there and tell the Priest you're sorry and don't mean it, it doesn't automatically mean you go to Heaven. Even if you do mean it you'll probably still end up in Purgatory. The same goes for most Protestant Churches as far as I know - if you privately confess to God and honestly believe it you will be forgiven - but it's not as simple as just saying the words "I'm sorry". The only Protestant Churches I have an issue with on this are the ones that teach pre-destination (although I don't know if many do anymore) - I know Ian Paisley's lot hint strongly towards it with their beliefs. I thought the concept of predestination emanated from St Paul. St Augustine prattled on about it as well didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I thought the concept of predestination emanated from St Paul. St Augustine prattled on about it as well didn't he? It's never been a concept taught by the Catholic church - belief in God and good works are a prerequisite for salvation. The Catholic church teaches that we require the Grace of God to reach heaven without question, but Calvin, Knox et al taught that Grace ALONE was enough to be admitted to Heaven. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Edwards Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Any Celtic or Rangers fan who is screaming is probably a Catholic or Protestant in name only. I don't have a problem with terms like "The Holy Goalie" etc as long as they're a bit of fun, but a lot of Celtic fans turn Catholic hymns into Celtic songs which I don't agree with. Some Rangers fans are just as bad; they'll sing songs about the Queen (despite being raised in the Church of Scotland which has no affiliation with the Queen) and wave the Union Flag yet claim to "hate e englush". In other words they're idiots. The worst of both are messed up. With regards to the Pope, Catholics believe he is part of a succession of Church leaders - the first being St Peter appointed by Jesus. Bidding prayers at Mass almost always call for God to look after the Pope, but also the Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and the general congregation - with a special mention for the sick etc. Do you ever put a word in for the heathens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Do you ever put a word in for the heathens? Yeah actually, a lot of the time bidding prayers are about non-believers. A good Catholic will always bear a good witness of the faith to non-believers. I would never force my beliefs on anyone though, apart from being morally wrong it would be a complete waste of time. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Jesus himself indirectly created the 'post' of pope with saint peter being first pope of course. ''god bless the pope'' certainly a empty gesture by celtic fans but surely the man who is spiritual leader and head of a church that has perhaps 1,000,000,000 members needs prayed for. I'd hardly think he's more in need or deserving than any of the millions of people in the world that are suffering through poverty and disease through no fault of their own however? That's where I feel the flaws come in and it does appear to be more worship than respect towards the pope. I don't see him as any more important than anyone else, and have the exact same views on the queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawheed rex Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Jesus himself indirectly created the 'post' of pope with saint peter being first pope of course. ''god bless the pope'' certainly a empty gesture by celtic fans but surely the man who is spiritual leader and head of a church that has perhaps 1,000,000,000 members needs prayed for. prayed for yes worshiped no. kissing the ring pilgrimage no. it was not jesus that picked this pope it was a bunsh of his old mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawheed rex Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd hardly think he's more in need or deserving than any of the millions of people in the world that are suffering through poverty and disease through no fault of their own however? That's where I feel the flaws come in and it does appear to be more worship than respect towards the pope. I don't see him as any more important than anyone else, and have the exact same views on the queen. i agree with all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd hardly think he's more in need or deserving than any of the millions of people in the world that are suffering through poverty and disease through no fault of their own however? That's where I feel the flaws come in and it does appear to be more worship than respect towards the pope. I don't see him as any more important than anyone else, and have the exact same views on the queen. I can see what you're saying. It's not that he's more worthy than any other individual as such, just that as spiritual head of the church (God is the true "head") he surely deserves prayer - but not worship. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 prayed for yes worshiped no. kissing the ring pilgrimage no. it was not jesus that picked this pope it was a bunsh of his old mates. No true Catholic worships the Pope - as I've said that would be blasphemous. Jesus did appoint the first Pope - St Peter. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mceleny Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 the people you mentioned are prayed for also toby. what are these flaws you talk of?Yes rawheed thats why god gave us freewill obviously, how observant of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Edwards Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yeah actually, a lot of the time bidding prayers are about non-believers. A good Catholic will always bear a good witness of the faith to non-believers. I would never force my beliefs on anyone though, apart from being morally wrong it would be a complete waste of time. You should've noted my smiley, I was jesting. I'll take issue with you on predestination though. The concept did originate from Catholicism, particularly from St Augustine. Reformationists like Luther and Calvin made their own amendments to the doctrine. Mary's fate was predestined surely, or did she have a choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawheed rex Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 the people you mentioned are prayed for also toby. what are these flaws you talk of?Yes rawheed thats why god gave us freewill obviously, how observant of you! it is obvious its just ashame some dicide not to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mceleny Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 You should've noted my smiley, I was jesting. I'll take issue with you on predestination though. The concept did originate from Catholicism, particularly from St Augustine. Reformationists like Luther and Calvin made their own amendments to the doctrine. Mary's fate was predestined surely, or did she have a choice? surely she could have put her son in a non denominational school if she wanted to davie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 You should've noted my smiley, I was jesting. I'll take issue with you on predestination though. The concept did originate from Catholicism, particularly from St Augustine. Reformationists like Luther and Calvin made their own amendments to the doctrine. Mary's fate was predestined surely, or did she have a choice? It absolutely did - but the Catholic church has never made it part of official doctrine. I can't answer that question, could ask the same about Judas - it's an interesting point though. riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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