Plans To Scrap Council Tax Scrapped

[mortonjag]

Aye, good input and right on topic

You disagree?

[Tom_McB]

Kind of a daft response if you don't mind me saying so - it's not the SNP that have scored an own goal, more a case of the oppsition parties outnumbering them and therefore preventing any likliehood of success.

Living up to your name.

The plan was always pish, the essenpee have realised this.

 

You have to admire the honesty from the SNP. They could have simply put the Bill forward and let the opposition parties vote it down.

Then they could have just stood back and blamed it all on them, but they didn't, they were up front about it and said they wouldn't put the Bill to the vote.

 

And credit to them again, whilst Council Tax will inevitably rise in England again ( I believe this has risen to over 60% in England since Labour came to power). In Scotland, Council Tax looks like being frozen for the second year in a row !

Or, they didn;t want the opposition to say it was pish and let the essenpee vote it in. I have it on impecacable authority that the opposition were prepared to abstain whilst arguing against and lett the essenpee take the blame for the f'ckup,

 

Bawheid is bottling it.

[Scotsguy40]

Do you just make just make it up as you go along ? The LIT was not the "vote winner" people were rightly scunnered with Labour for one. And wait until the rest of thr UK get their chance to vote in an election and show how scunnered they are with Labour also.

It was the vote winner, thats what the man in the street voted for.

 

Labour was judged at that election and got booted, same thing here, after 1 term in office this mob will get booted if they don't get the finger out.

 

As has been explained to you, many, many times by myself and various others. Minority governments won't pass all that they would like in their manifesto. Without going into coalition or having a majority it is simply impossible.

Your like a stuck record with this bit.

Being a minority government, is it not down to them to gain cross party support and form coalitions with the other parties? Give a bit and take a bit?

Quite simply, if this tax was going to be of use to the nation the other parties would have pushed it thru.

Even the Scottish Chamber of Commerce said it would be "spine chilling" to implement this.

 

I could see your point of view if we were talking about a party who have a majority in government, just like Labour at Westminster. They had a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on the EU. When they came to power they didn't fulfill their manifesto promise even though they had a majority to implement it.

 

See the difference ?????

There's no difference, they'll be judged soon enough just like Bawheid and co if they don't get the finger oot.

 

If every council in Scotland had a shortfall, why did Stirling Council cut its Council Tax by 1.1% last year ?

 

Or did you just make up another story ........

Forgive me, They were the ONLY council to cut it's CT. Oh, how did they manage that? They capped wages and made 264 staff redundant!

Cost savings.

 

And while we're on that subject, West Dunbartonshire, SNP controlled have a £1.8m shortfall, who's paying for that?

Yip, the staff.

[Colkitto]

I have it on impecacable authority that the opposition were prepared to abstain whilst arguing against and lett the essenpee take the blame for the f'ckup,

 

Bawheid is bottling it.

 

I find that very hard to believe. Both the Tories and Labour vehemently opposed LIT. If they had abstained, they would have been a laughing stock (again).

[mortonjag]

I find that very hard to believe. Both the Tories and Labour vehemently opposed LIT. If they had abstained, they would have been a laughing stock (again).

Local income tax was one of the keystones of Bawheid's manifesto Spurtle and has been manifestly demonstrated to have been a massive con trick.

 

There is no end to his chicanery it seems-not until the next election.

[Colkitto]

It was the vote winner, thats what the man in the street voted for.

 

Labour was judged at that election and got booted, same thing here, after 1 term in office this mob will get booted if they don't get the finger out.

 

Your like a stuck record with this bit.

Being a minority government, is it not down to them to gain cross party support and form coalitions with the other parties? Give a bit and take a bit?

Quite simply, if this tax was going to be of use to the nation the other parties would have pushed it thru.

Even the Scottish Chamber of Commerce said it would be "spine chilling" to implement this.

There's no difference, they'll be judged soon enough just like Bawheid and co if they don't get the finger oot.

Forgive me, They were the ONLY council to cut it's CT. Oh, how did they manage that? They capped wages and made 264 staff redundant!

Cost savings.

 

And while we're on that subject, West Dunbartonshire, SNP controlled have a £1.8m shortfall, who's paying for that?

Yip, the staff.

 

Many liked the idea of LIT, to say it was the vote winner of why everyone voted for the SNP is just ridiculous.

 

 

The SNP did try and form a coalition with the Lib-Dems, but they wouldn't be part of the SNP government because the SNP wanted to have a democratic referendum on independence ( great from a party that calls itself democrats)

So they had to form a minority government.

 

Stirling Council was a Labour controlled council at the time. They capped the wages and cut the staff

 

The SNP overall funding package available to local government amounts to almost £12 billion ! An incredible amount of money given our resources from Westminster.

Who incidently are going to cut the Scottish budget by £500m next year ! Aye that's a Labour government for ye !!!

 

[Colkitto]

Local income tax was one of the keystones of Bawheid's manifesto Spurtle and has been manifestly demonstrated to have been a massive con trick.

 

There is no end to his chicanery it seems-not until the next election.

 

 

You only see what you want to see MJ. Even after it's been shown to have proved you wrong. <_>

[mortonjag]

Many liked the idea of LIT, to say it was the vote winner of why everyone voted for the SNP is just ridiculous.

The SNP did try and form a coalition with the Lib-Dems, but they wouldn't be part of the SNP government because the SNP wanted to have a democratic referendum on independence ( great from a party that calls itself democrats)

So they had to form a minority government.

 

Stirling Council was a Labour controlled council at the time. They capped the wages and cut the staff

 

The SNP overall funding package available to local government amounts to almost £12 billion ! An incredible amount of money given our resources from Westminster.

Who incidently are going to cut the Scottish budget by £500m next year ! Aye that's a Labour government for ye !!!

:offtopic:

 

Many liked the idea of LIT Spurtle-that's why Bawheid lied!

 

PS-I gather Moira reads this to him in his beddy baws!

 

 

 

 

[mortonjag]

You only see what you want to see MJ. Even after it's been shown to have proved you wrong. <_>

A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest when he's blindly affiliated to a political party Spurtle.

 

The onlooker sees the whole of the game. Bawheid's bubble may be about to burst!

 

 

 

[Guest David Edwards]

A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest when he's blindly affiliated to a political party Spurtle.

 

 

No he doesn't. He hears what he wants to hear and...... so on. There's none so deaf as those that refuse to listen. Never mind, everyman, go with Mentaljag and he'll be your misguide.

[mortonjag]

No he doesn't. He hears what he wants to hear and...... so on. There's none so deaf as those that refuse to listen. Never mind, everyman, go with Mentaljag and he'll be your misguide.

[Scotsguy40]

Who incidently are going to cut the Scottish budget by £500m next year ! Aye that's a Labour government for ye !!!

Aye! but then again, SNP have double the budget that Donald Dewar had......

[Colkitto]

Aye! but then again, SNP have double the budget that Donald Dewar had......

 

 

Considering Dewar was First Minister in the 90's I'm not surprised

 

Who shall we compare next ? William Pitt the younger, Harold McMillan....

[mortonjag]

Considering Dewar was First Minister in the 90's I'm not surprised

 

Who shall we compare next ? William Pitt the younger, Harold McMillan....

I'd rather you didn't compare Bawheid with famous people.

[Scotsguy40]

Considering Dewar was First Minister in the 90's I'm not surprised

 

Who shall we compare next ? William Pitt the younger, Harold McMillan....

And has a pound doubled in value since the 90's?

[Alibi]

Scotsguy, your arguments fall apart at the slightest touch. If you spread the cost of something over 12 months instead of 10, it costs you the same, just that the monthly payments are less (assuming we're not talking about interest being charged as in a loan repayment for example).

 

The SNP put forward proposals in their manifesto which said "this is what we will do if we have an overall majority". The other parties did the same. The SNP doesn't have an overall majority and so they can only do things if the other parties agree - so tell me, how the feck can they get LIT through when they will be outvoted? For what it's worth, I think they should have tried and let the other parties vote it down, but I'm not FM.

 

The same situation would apply to ANY party that didn't have a majority - Labour got round that by sodomising the LibDems. If you want the SNP to be able to implement their manifesto in full, vote in more SNP MSPs and get the SNP an overall majority and then they won't have to pander to wee gobsh1tes like Patrick Look at Me Harvie.

 

Again to you, Scotsguy: you think that the Council Tax is fair and you think it should be increased 10% per year. That's really helpful at a time of financial restraint. Maybe rather than keep increasing it, you might consider sacking a lot of non-essential people, the LGBT outreach co-ordinators, diversity trainers and all that fecking New Labour style sh1te. I pay nearly £2500 a year in CT to fund inflation proof pensions for these local authority cnuts, and they mostly seem to be retired by the time they're 50.

 

Feck Labour in particular. Not just crooks to a man and woman, but evil cnuts as well. Lowlifes.

[TonInDublin]

What is interesting to watch is how the overall SNP internal politics are starting to work (and may I suggest unravel just a bit).

 

Despite being accused by one member on here of "talking bollocks" when I said there were those in the party starting to question Salmond's leadership, and despite that coming from a close personal friend who operates at a very high level within the party - it was pooh-pooh'd by many on here - who then cite their own personal sources as somehow being accurate/more accurate.

 

Well, let me give you a brief update - and see if NOW you might see a few dots joining up.

 

Salmond and his own particular faithful have made three basic errors in the last week or so regarding who if "for them and who is agin them".

 

1. The small group of people who are less than enamoured by his leadership style and some recent decisions continue to have discussions on options - and the fact that there are some in the party not fully aligned to the leader is not a major secret - but whats uncertain is who will stand where, if a challenge ever came. But ..... unfortunately for Eck he doesn't really know the MAJOR players who are least satisfied - "softly, softly, catchee monkey"

 

2. The decision to remove the three people from power last week has not gone down well for a couple of reasons. Firstly, depsite what the leadership may think, two of these three were full square behind Salmond !

 

3. Sooooo ..... the net result of those actions have been to a.) steel the resolve of the people who are trying to build up a quorum for change and b.) driven a lot of the don't knows and faithful towards the "change" camp based on the patent unfairness of what happened last week !

 

An own goal of massive proportions - and in the next few months I expect to see a few more chickens coming home to roost.

 

And that's BEFORE he starts to worry about broken manifesto pledges !

 

There may be trouble aheaaaad ......

 

TonInDublin

[mortonjag]

What is interesting to watch is how the overall SNP internal politics are starting to work (and may I suggest unravel just a bit).

 

Despite being accused by one member on here of "talking bollocks" when I said there were those in the party starting to question Salmond's leadership, and despite that coming from a close personal friend who operates at a very high level within the party - it was pooh-pooh'd by many on here - who then cite their own personal sources as somehow being accurate/more accurate.

 

Well, let me give you a brief update - and see if NOW you might see a few dots joining up.

 

Salmond and his own particular faithful have made three basic errors in the last week or so regarding who if "for them and who is agin them".

 

1. The small group of people who are less than enamoured by his leadership style and some recent decisions continue to have discussions on options - and the fact that there are some in the party not fully aligned to the leader is not a major secret - but whats uncertain is who will stand where, if a challenge ever came. But ..... unfortunately for Eck he doesn't really know the MAJOR players who are least satisfied - "softly, softly, catchee monkey"

 

2. The decision to remove the three people from power last week has not gone down well for a couple of reasons. Firstly, depsite what the leadership may think, two of these three were full square behind Salmond !

 

3. Sooooo ..... the net result of those actions have been to a) steel the resolve of the people who are trying to build up a quorum for change and driven a lot of the don't knows and faithful towards the "change" camp based on the patent unfairness of what happened last week !

 

An own goal of massive proportions - and in the next few months I expect to see a few more chickens coming home to roost.

 

And that's BEFORE he starts to worry about broken manifesto pledges !

 

There may be trouble aheaaaad ......

 

TonInDublin

 

 

[Scotsguy40]

Scotsguy, your arguments fall apart at the slightest touch. If you spread the cost of something over 12 months instead of 10, it costs you the same, just that the monthly payments are less (assuming we're not talking about interest being charged as in a loan repayment for example).

They are not falling apart. It's how a working man see's things, we're not bound by party spin or propoganda the way you are.

Ok, if those costs for a band D house were say £1000 right now then thats £100 over the ten months.

So under those proposals of taxation that the SNP suggest over 12 months will it be under £83 for a 12 month period? Not a chance. In a leaked memo for a meeting being held by West Dunbartonshire tomorrow this memo is suggesting that the figure under the proposed taxation would be £92 per Band D. That works out more than the current system.

Granted some members of the community will be slightly better off, but in the main most will be worst off.

 

The same situation would apply to ANY party that didn't have a majority - Labour got round that by sodomising the LibDems. If you want the SNP to be able to implement their manifesto in full, vote in more SNP MSPs and get the SNP an overall majority and then they won't have to pander to wee gobsh1tes like Patrick Look at Me Harvie.

Is that not what SNP are doing with Annabel and co? Is it not the job of our elected Government to get the best deal for the people of this country? As you pointed out a few weeks back with the budget, you have to give a bit to get a bit back.

 

Again to you, Scotsguy: you think that the Council Tax is fair and you think it should be increased 10% per year. That's really helpful at a time of financial restraint. Maybe rather than keep increasing it, you might consider sacking a lot of non-essential people, the LGBT outreach co-ordinators, diversity trainers and all that fecking New Labour style sh1te. I pay nearly £2500 a year in CT to fund inflation proof pensions for these local authority cnuts, and they mostly seem to be retired by the time they're 50.

I think the CT is the better of the two evil's at this moment in time. Until they can come up with something more workable. Go back to Thatchers day when we were the trial for Maggie's Poll Tax. Every member of the family outwith further education had to chip in. Poor apprentices on £18 per week had to put towards it and it was backed by your Party!

I agree there's to many quango's, Mr Swinney is fond of using them as well with his consulatation's. We've got £1m per week leaking from public funds for the new Forth Bridge Crossing thats not had a shovel dug in the ground yet!

For us that can afford it during the economic turmoil is 5-10% to much to ask to safeguard essential services for the elderly and sick which are being starved of money due to this freeze on council tax.

 

And I agree with your sentiments on Labour!

[simple_ton]

Living up to your name.

The plan was always pish, the essenpee have realised this.

 

What's wrong with the statement that they dropped it because they were outnumbered. I fail to see how that makes me an idiot, as you imply. It's simple logic - if they can't get agreement to get the bill throughg, why waste time on it.

 

It's also appears to be a big assumption on here that the only reason people voted SNP is due to their stance on LIT - if that's the case, wouldn't you have expected the LibDems to have had a much larger share of the vote given that they have a broadly similar policy wrt LIT? I suspect the main reason that many folk voted SNP may be hinted at in the name of the party - you seem to think of yourself as a bit cleverer than most of us, so see if you can work it out.

 

For what it's worth, I'm against the LIT anyway