John Muir

[Cet Homme Charmant]

CHC,

 

FYI

 

Some of the limp wristed liberal faggots in this country should be exterminated.

 

Oh my, i'm sure that kind of opinion may upset you but do I give a f***.

Doesn't upset me in the slightest, but I think it's absolutely the wrong approach for achieving what we both want.

[Rhubarb Mess]

Barbarossa, if you take the trouble to read back you'll see I actually agree with you with respect to tougher and mandatory sentensing.

 

But insulting those who disagree and wishing they get stabbed is counter-productive.

 

 

But what is stopping the tougher sentencing being legislated? The minority liberals who know hee haw at first hand what is going on. Meanwhile every day and night in this country someone, somewhere is stabbed, maybe even murdered, while these cants sit on their hands.

 

The blood is on their conscience, if they even have one.

 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

But what is stopping the tougher sentencing being legislated? The minority liberals who know hee haw at first hand what is going on. Meanwhile every day and night in this country someone, somewhere is stabbed, maybe even murdered, while these cants sit on their hands.

 

The blood is on their conscience, if they even have one.

What's stopping tougher legislation is that the lawmakers, police and the prison system aren't yet convinced it's the best approach.

 

So do you think the best way to persuade them is to use reasoned and considered argument or to insult them and wish they get stabbed?

 

 

[leyTON]

That is exactly the kind of thing that is doing John's campaign a great disservice and harm, IMO.

 

Do you honestly think that wishing someone to get stabbed simply for disagreeing with you is the best way to win this debate? Seriously mate, wishing that on anyone is a shocking thing to say, and I hope you'll have the baws to accept that and retract it.

i concur

 

The thing is, none the limp wrist do gooders or their immediate families have ever suffered 1st hand from these scum bags thats why they want to pick holes in minimum sentences, maybe what Barbarossa is saying is if these people became victims then they would be quick enough to demand justice for themselves.

 

People should be sent to prison for a long time for unlawfully carrying a knife its as simple as that.

why do you have to suffer it to have an opinion on it? same as i said with the prince charles and sooty thing, why is it only those who have suffered racism are allowed to be offended by it

 

Thanks for saving me the time of writing this up.

Aresholes who know not what they are talking about would maybe change their mind about sentencing IF they sufferred at the hands of a knife wielding nutcase.

 

Who do you think I am CHC, Alladin, do you think I rub my lampo and make a wish. Watch yourself next time your peeling the totties.

if i was chibbed i would want a judge to rule on it, not me, given that he is the professional

you just highlight the problem, i happen to disagree with you, and you seem to think it would do me a measure of good to be stabbed?

 

tell me this, do you honestly think I am an arsehole?

a really bad person?

 

 

if you are the people who support this campaign then it has no future. surely it would be better to build a consensus rather than pretending every opposed is as bad as a knife weilding maniac

[Rhubarb Mess]

What's stopping tougher legislation is that the lawmakers, police and the prison system aren't yet convinced it's the best approach.

 

So do you think the best way to persuade them is to use reasoned and considered argument or to insult them and wish they get stabbed?

 

Wrong, the judges have said its required, the police have said its required and the prison system has just advised they will need more capacity to cope with it.

 

The MAJORITY of the public want it and a growing number of politicians are comig on side (probably more for their own gain).

 

The ONLY ones who do not want it are the MINORITY of Liberal minded people.

[leyTON]

But what is stopping the tougher sentencing being legislated? The minority liberals who know hee haw at first hand what is going on. Meanwhile every day and night in this country someone, somewhere is stabbed, maybe even murdered, while these cants sit on their hands.

 

The blood is on their conscience, if they even have one.

that is far too personal an attack if you want to get something done

tell me this, if me or CHC get stabbed tomorrow, will you be glad?

will our blood be on your conscience

do us a favour, and move back to the middle ages

think your vigilante approach would work then eh?

[Rhubarb Mess]

i concur

why do you have to suffer it to have an opinion on it? same as i said with the prince charles and sooty thing, why is it only those who have suffered racism are allowed to be offended by it

if i was chibbed i would want a judge to rule on it, not me, given that he is the professional

you just highlight the problem, i happen to disagree with you, and you seem to think it would do me a measure of good to be stabbed?

 

tell me this, do you honestly think I am an arsehole?

a really bad person?

if you are the people who support this campaign then it has no future. surely it would be better to build a consensus rather than pretending every opposed is as bad as a knife weilding maniac

 

 

You may well be an areshole, I will withhold that jugement and decide if I ever meet you.

.

You are the ones against this campaign, the MINORITY

[Rhubarb Mess]

that is far too personal an attack if you want to get something done

tell me this, if me or CHC get stabbed tomorrow, will you be glad?

will our blood be on your conscience

do us a favour, and move back to the middle ages

think your vigilante approach would work then eh?

 

I really couldn't give a flying f***, I don't know you or him so it would just be another stat. another one the system has let down.

 

Yes I do, its worked in the past, and much more than the courts could ever do as long as their hands are tied.

 

BTW, Mr Muirs campaign has f*** all to do with me, I agree with what he is trying to acheive (And having known his son, yes very limited, but had spoken to him on occassions) I feel the utmost sympathy with what his family have went through, I am NOT part of it, I am NOT a voice on it, I merely dish out my own perceptions on a f***ING FOOTBALL INTERNET FORUM. FFS do you think what I type here is going to influence anyone to go on or offside with Mr Muir.

[Guest midTONs]

why do you have to suffer it to have an opinion on it? same as i said with the prince charles and sooty thing, why is it only those who have suffered racism are allowed to be offended by it

 

No one is saying you have to be a victim to have an opinion, what people are saying to you is maybe if you had to live directly with the effects of knife crime for the rest of your life you would think twice about sticking to the status quo which in effect is the softly softly approach.

 

 

 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

Wrong, the judges have said its required, the police have said its required and the prison system has just advised they will need more capacity to cope with it.

 

The MAJORITY of the public want it and a growing number of politicians are comig on side (probably more for their own gain).

 

The ONLY ones who do not want it are the MINORITY of Liberal minded people.

If you'll read the Herald article I posted a link to at the beginning of the thread you'll see there is a lot of opposition to mandatory sentencing, and from all walks of life including senior police chiefs. Now I happen to disagree with them, but to categorise them all as 'limp-wristed liberals' and wishing they get stabbed does not help the cause.

 

Public opinion will ultimate prevail, and if your elected representatives don't agree with you on the issue then vote for someone who does, because ultimately it will only be changed by parliamentary legislation.

[Rhubarb Mess]

If you'll read the Herald article I posted a link to at the beginning of the thread you'll see there is a lot of opposition to mandatory sentencing, and from all walks of life including senior police chiefs. Now I happen to disagree with them, but to categorise them all as 'limp-wristed liberals' and wishing they get stabbed does not help the cause.

 

Public opinion will ultimate prevail, and if your elected representatives don't agree with you on the issue then vote for someone who does, because ultimately it will only be changed by parliamentary legislation.

 

 

The Herald, says it all really

 

My opinion is bourne out of real life, not a newspaper.

[bigdoc1874]

Here we go again with mythical stereotypes. It seems that for some people, 'limp wristed' is another way of describing someone who is slightly to the left of Genghis Khan. Perhaps the 'limp wristed' can now join the ranks of the wishy-washy do-gooders in the PC Brigade. And here we go again with meaningless, nonsensical terms like, 'liberal minority', and 'homosexual community'. According to some, all so-called liberals must be p o o f s who are soft on criminals.

People's views differ over the political and social definition of 'liberal' Some claim that liberals are in a minority and that by implication 'illiberals' form the majority. (The 'silent majority', I think I've heard that one before). Where is the evidence for that ? I'd suggest that such contentions are not substantiated by voting patterns, past or present, indeed the reverse is true. I think that liberal democratic politics (in the generic sense) speak for the majority whereas right wing, quasi fascist politics are confined to a small minority, in Scotland at least.

 

Again, what does the term 'homosexual community' mean? Quite obviously, all homosexuals do not live beside one another in the same area. Neither do they all share the same social and political viewpoints, nor do they all share the same class, religion, social status, race, culture, or even football team. Isn't the term 'homosexual community' as meaningless as 'heterosexual community' or even, 'Morton Supporters Messageboard Community'?

What is meant by the term 'sexual deviant'? Are all all homosexuals to be classified so? Is a 'sexual deviant' a pervert? Isn't it accepted fact the overwhelming majority of sex crimes are committed by heterosexuals? If homosexual sex is confined to consenting adults in private then what the feck has it got to do with anyone else in a free and democratic society, or is that just me being 'liberal' again?

 

Let it be known that this so-called liberal fully supports the campaign for 'Damian's Law' and empathises with John Muir's sentiments completely. I think his words were open to misinterpretation in this instance but should be overlooked given the circumstances. As a parent, I can at least begin to understand the pain and suffering that's caused by the loss of a child. Despair of society and the justice system must be added to the pain when the loss is due to a senseless, callously brutal murder. I firmly believe that the criminal justice and social security systems both require a radical overhaul if we aim to mend this broken society of ours. Such an overhaul will be achieved by a democratic mandate however, and not by knee jerk, vigilante man reactions. If the law isn't working it should be changed, democratically. I wish John Muir all the best in his efforts to do just that.

 

What a complete contradiction in one post. You seem to have concentrated on my descriptive terms for various groups and persons whom i believe have turned my country into the dustbin that it is now. Well done, and when you and your 'liberal' friends have given all freedoms available to the criminal, perverted, feral minorities while removing the freedoms of the hard working, law abiding, legal citizens of this land, what then ? will you then move on to the human rights of the paedophile ? probably. This country needs a balanced leadership not a liberal dictatorship.

[leyTON]

You may well be an areshole, I will withhold that jugement and decide if I ever meet you.

.

You are the ones against this campaign, the MINORITY

15,000 signatures is it?

 

No one is saying you have to be a victim to have an opinion, what people are saying to you is maybe if you had to live directly with the effects of knife crime for the rest of your life you would think twice about sticking to the status quo which in effect is the softly softly approach.

so barbosa has been affected, and he is allowed suggest castrating all petty criminals and hes fine

i havent been affected and i am an arsehole, and a fanny for making an informed decision

[Cet Homme Charmant]

The Herald, says it all really

 

My opinion is bourne out of real life, not a newspaper.

No-one is saying your opinion isn't valid. I agree with it FFS.

 

But not everybody does, including many of those who actually have to power to make the changes, and their opinions are equally as valid as yours and mine. And I say again name-calling and wishing them to be stabbed for simply having a different opinion is counter productive. I'm sorry you haven't retracted that, we all type daft things at the heat of the moment, but you seem to be standing by what you said.

 

The bottom line is that if you want the legislation they either have to be persuaded, or vote them out of office at the earliest opportunity if you believe this to be the biggest political issue at the time.

[Rhubarb Mess]

15,000 signatures is it?

so barbosa has been affected, and he is allowed suggest castrating all petty criminals and hes fine

i havent been affected and i am an arsehole, and a fanny for making an informed decision

 

Petty, what is f***ing petty about carrying something designed to cut up flesh and muscle?

If you think carrying a knife is petty you are all of the above.

 

No-one is saying your opinion isn't valid. I agree with it FFS.

 

But not everybody does, including many of those actually have to power to make the changes, and their opinions are equally as valid as yours and mine.

 

The bottom line is that if you want the legislation they either have to be persuaded, or voted out of office at the earliest opportunity.

 

put it to a public vote and we will see the majorities opinion.

[Guest midTONs]

so barbosa has been affected, and he is allowed suggest castrating all petty criminals and hes fine

i havent been affected and i am an arsehole, and a fanny for making an informed decision

 

 

petty criminals? I have not called you an arsehole or a fanny but where do you get informed decision unless you know what it's like to be a victim directly or indirectly.

[leyTON]

your right midtons

you literally cant learn about anything unless ytou have been stabbed

[Cet Homme Charmant]

put it to a public vote and we will see the majorities opinion.

I would be unpractical and unworkable to have public referendums on each and every piece of proposed legislation that came before parliament. You'd never be away from the ballot box. They're reserved for major constitutional changes.

 

If you feel really strongly about it then vote for someone who supports it at the next elections, and in the meantime try to influence your current elected representatives if they don't.

 

Though I think you'd be better to moderate your approach somewhat if you want to have any chance of success.

[Guest midTONs]

your right midtons

you literally cant learn about anything unless ytou have been stabbed

 

Have I said that? anyway how did you come to your ''informed decision'' from books? Maybe try listening to victims and see what they have to say, guys like you think you know it all and I hope you never have to experience anything like it.

[Guest midTONs]

Leyton are my views on homosexuality wrong as well or do I need to have been rode before I can have an opinion on that as well because you certainly come across as a batty boy if your way of thought is correct.