TRVMP

I asked for the evidence to be posted and it has been posted, and I thank Alasdair for posting it. To me, it shows that the extent of the Dalrada fiasco, and the Morton board's knowledge of it, was not shared with Estrella in its entirety until very late in the day - August. That's most of what was alleged, and that allegation is now seen as true. The rest of the allegation is that this was a deliberate, material withholding, a misleading. I don't think that has been proven. It could just as easily be naivete. A lot of people, myself included, were charmed by Brian Bonar such that we believed - mistakenly! - that he was a man of his word. This is NOT to exonerate anyone at all. This is NOT to say it was an excusable error. But it seems to be quite possible that, perhaps out of heads in the sane, they wanted to think the best case scenario would just work out in the world. Again, it is not to exonerate. I think the respective boards had two duties that they failed in: A) They had an affirmative duty to share the material financial circumstances of the club in line with the memorandum of understanding, and I don't think this was fully done. They had an affirmative duty to be even more transparent, down to the penny, about everything financial from the moment they went to Estrella looking for a loan. If you go cap in hand like that to a potential investor, that's the time you lose a lot of leverage. You just have to put your cards on the table at that point, otherwise you risk destroying trust. Between that and Estrella's own mystifying inability to speak clearly and fairly, that trust was destroyed. I am on record as disagreeing with the current incumbents' characterization of the Dalrada issue as one of cashflow rather than structure. If the club's cashflow depends on a sponsor that, effectively, does not exist, that is not a cashflow issue but a structural one. If I build my house on four pillars and one of them is made out of cotton wool, that isn't a brick issue. So even if the board(s) truly believed this, I don't think they could reasonably impute that belief onto Estrella, and therefore they should have shared it earlier than they did. To me, this evidence is fairly, but not entirely damning. It confirms much of what was alleged previously, but it falls short, to me at least. And I think in the cold light of day Estrella would agree that they weren't maliciously defrauded, because if you look at the "Revised offer Estrella" screenshot, the language that MCT want removed says the budget was too optimistic, not misleading, not dishonest, nothing like that. And, if I'm not mistaken, Estrella did agree to remove it from the IA, didn't they? This suggests to me that, while it absolutely would have precipitated a huge decrease in trust from Estrella towards MCT/GMFC/both, it actually wasn't the dispositive issue here. I think the evidence, then, doesn't indicate all of what Alasdair said it was. I think it's bad. I think it shows an irresponsible level of optimism from the people who put it together. But I don't regard this as the silver bullet that killed the deal. Alasdair himself admitted, after much obfuscation, the deal was active (albeit on life support) heading into the meeting. What killed the meeting was Alasdair's and Estrella's hubris. As understandable as their anger may be in the light of the failings illustrated by this evidence, they managed to take that failing of their counterparty and turn it into an overwhelming rejection of their own side by the MCT membership. That's on them, and they'll never take that responsibility, so for me that's a chapter closed that we'll just collectively have to live with. I don't regard it as a mass resignation issue for the Boards. I do regard it as a pretty severe failing and once that they should account for in a way they have yet to do so. We simply can't be having these optimistic projections when we already know the frailty of the situation, and we can't be - even if for benign reasons - withholding that information either.

It would only meet the criteria if I was now in possession of new info. I'm not. You guys have already made all these claims based on the materials you've seen. I've not seen the materials. You insist that I'm wilfully ignorant because I want to see them first. I have literally negative reason to take your word for it. Send me the evidence and I'll judge it on its merits. I'm not anonymous, I'm pseudonymous, plenty of people reading this known who I am. Dm me and I'll tell you, we can meet up in Greenock next time I'm over. Bring yer maw And all this stuff about phone calls and when "Estrella" saw the emails, it's just irrelevant. There are numerous people at Estrella. You're more than happy to individualize MCT directors when it suits your agenda but you can say now with confidence that you told "Estrella" on the phone so the email from "Estrella" was false (why would they mislead people into thinking they didn't know the contents of it by implying this?) You impute the worst possible motives onto everyone else while fannying about like Poundland Talleyrand yourself, spreading God knows what to whom and throwing around allegations without evidence. It's absolutely pathetic. Post the evidence.

Just post the material then.

I'm posting to you, you were speaking to a large audience in an important meeting. You know the difference. Your timeline of when the deal was and wasn't active isn't reliable for the reasons dunning point out: they don't match those published by Estrella. I think you bought into the Estrella thing despite their repeated failures at meeting their goals and you're blind to their 50%-ish role in this failing and I think that's because they made you feel important. If you were in possession of evidence that shows the MCT board willingly misled Estrella in contravention of their memorandum of understanding then the time to present that was at the meeting, then - if applicable - to the police. That you insist people agree with you and are bound to remove directors before you present it suggests to me that you're not as confident in your position as you pretend, same with Estrella shiteing out of legal action of their own. You can go back and look at the posts here from the night before the meeting, many people who were 'yes'es like me turned to not just 'nos' but 'hell nos' because of YOUR actions. You can say that's unfair because MCT lied, but you've still not presented any evidence of this. Every malicious intention you attribute to MCT, of deliberate lying, can be turned around to you. The Davie Moyes Jr. situation is a somewhat petty example. You said one thing, MCT said the other. By your own standards, one of you is guilty of lying. In the absence of evidence, I'm not just going to believe it's not you because you tell me it is. Why would I when you've displayed so far an almost fathomless level of arrogance and poor judgement?

You won't find me defending anyone who used spoiler tactics to privilege the consortium, regardless of who they are and what connection they have to MCT or don't have. The consortiums offer is inferior in every way to that of Estrella. This is perfectly consistent with what I said, which is that it was shut down within minutes at the meeting - as was correct.

Graham has also said that it was potentially criminal. I truly hope, if that is the case, it's reported and investigated thoroughly.

Call me an old fuddy-duddy but back in my day we were allowed to look at the evidence and examine it before swearing that we'd accept it and attach conditions to it.

It's possible for people to read and absorb things without agreeing with them. I've read everything you've said, very little of which is new, and it doesn't change my mind. On the first point: I understand passions are running high, but consider that Estrella were up against a pretty unpopular GMFC board, and an MCT board that had also failed to cover itself in glory, and Estrella made a fairly good (but not perfect) offer, and still found themselves massively voted against once they opened their mouths. That's on them and you. On August 16th I was an unenthusiastic 'yes'. By the time you sat down at the meeting I wanted Estrella and you as far away from the club as possible. Look at the vote counts and tell me I'm the only one, tell me I'm the one being unreasonable. Estrella have form for spaffing their load early, which is why they failed at Rimini and failed at Atletico CP. That's as material to their failure at Morton as the (many) failings of the MCT board. Why is one off-limits for scrutiny and not the other? Why is one of them a material factor and the other quietly brushed under the carpet? I don't know if the board knowingly lied to the members about the fate of the Dalrada money, and I'm certainly not taking your word for it. It's plausible for sure. It's equally plausible that, just as you were starstruck by Estrella (proud owners of two five-a-side teams in an all-inclusive resort, and Pro Patria), they believed that they wanted to believe and didn't think their pal Brian would let them down. Either/or, not something that anyone's been able to prove to my satisfaction. But let's say the worst is true and it was a deliberate, calculated lie. You still couldn't finish your tea! That's what you're up against and you still fucked it up, collectively, the lot of you. So if MCT's failures are grounds for their exile and why they shouldn't be listened to, why aren't your failings completely disqualifying? More than any other individual, YOU killed the Estrella deal with your rant. YOU killed it by sitting there mugging and rolling your eyes for the next two and a half hours. YOU killed it by trusting your big mates unconditionally while attributing the worst to everyone else. Hope it was worth it.

One other point here: renowned oaf Chris McEleny did raise his fears of majority ownership at the meeting, but he was almost immediately corrected on that point, and while obviously it can't be proven, I doubt anyone really took him seriously for the all of two minutes this was on the discussion floor.

What you're saying is perfectly clear. I accept you didn't write Graham's document. In fact I said earlier today it was clearly Graham's writing style. My point is it's immaterial when the people who actually dictate what you say are Estrella, based on your performance at the meeting. I haven't said anything about your primary loyalty. I said in my previous message (I assume you didn't see it yet) and am saying here that you're acting on their behalf. You could well be doing it out of a real belief that it's what's best for Morton. Nothing to do with loyalty. I already replied to your third post. It's nothing I didn't already know. You don't need to tell me that MCT screwed up badly. But you and Estella screwed up worse, far worse. You took what should have been a sure thing and burnt it on a pyre of your own hubris. And rather than just accept that, you lot - you, Graham, Estrella - can't let it go, you keep throwing around innuendo, Graham even going to the lengths of calling it potentially criminal what MCT did. I get that you need to be careful, but I for one would rather that criminal conduct be reported to the police rather than drip-fed on WhatsApp or here. Estrella isn't happening. It's gone. Whatever role you had in this organization is now immaterial to Morton unless they go ahead with their threatened legal action. You failed. It happens. Let it go and move on.

I think everyone at this point acknowledges that MCT have at least partial responsibility for fumbling Estrella. But this "your can't fire me, I quit" stuff from Estrella (and I firmly place you in their camp, not as a neutral observer) is so juvenile. If the deal fell apart before the statement, what was there to salvage? It's Schrodinger's Deal here. Either it was still active when you went on your incredibly ill-advised tirade at the meeting, or it wasn't. Which is it? While I have you, do you know who from Estrella wrote their public notice of withdrawal issued on August 17th?

Why would it, when you didn't disclose it until now? Inasmuch as you're pulling strings it's while David and Xander have their arm up the back of you. Take the hint. Estrella fucked it completely independently of the mistakes (and there were many) made by anyone at GMFC or MCT - and your rant at the meeting was the main factor in that.

They don't say, they just say it's the minimum and it is required no matter what league we're in, so if we freefall down to the LL West we're still on the hook for that bill, and if we fail to make that payment the Consortium is freed from its obligation to pay its pathetic amount of 12.5k a month. But then they own the stadium so I imagine they'd be OK with that.

The writing is Graham's, it matches the tenor and the grammar (or lack thereof) of the "leaked"* WhatsApp message almost exactly. But perhaps Alastair did the first draft or something. *I'm bewildered why people keep accepting that it's "leaked" by the way. WhatsApp messages are easily shared and forwarded. If you write a message to a group of people, and that message is a rallying cry for them to act on the contents of that message, it's perfectly reasonable for them to forward it on. In fact I'd say it would be odder for them not to do it. Graham's framing that this is somehow a breach of confidence is either disingenuous or - worse, in my view - a fundamental misunderstanding of how communications work. Doubt it, if you follow their LinkedIn they're busily jetting around Europe checking out the latest of their 20+ club stable, someone in the Albanian Subbuteo 6th division.

This Renfrew character's shaping up to be quite the eminence grise. Graham, I know you're reading this, you need to address this. Who's the organ grinder and who's the monkey?