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50 members have voted

  1. 1. If Crawford Rae insists on retaining ownership of Cappielow, would you like to see Morton move to Ravenscraig?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
      34
    • I would like a new purpose built stadium elsewhere in Greenock
      7
    • Only as an interim solution
      6


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30 minutes ago, piehutt said:

Completely agree. 

 

The Rae's have plunged millions into the club over the last 2 decades - I'm sure far more than the £2.6 million debt on the balance sheet. Ok, it often could have been better spent, especially in Dougie's tenure, but in the more recent decade it has simply been keeping us afloat. 

And why is that? It ie entirely down to their own incompetence and failure to generate any sellable assets, any successful football teams or anything close to a commercial department outside of hospitality, for 20 years. Excuse me for not bowing to their amazing generosity when the money (which has completely stopped because they have supporters donations now) is used to plug gaps the Raes have created with their own sledgehammer. 

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52 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

And why is that? It ie entirely down to their own incompetence and failure to generate any sellable assets, any successful football teams or anything close to a commercial department outside of hospitality, for 20 years. Excuse me for not bowing to their amazing generosity when the money (which has completely stopped because they have supporters donations now) is used to plug gaps the Raes have created with their own sledgehammer. 

We are where we are. 

Plenty of people lining up to criticise Rae and I don't disagree that the money spent on the team (especially in the early days) was badly apportioned. 

But the alternative to the MCT deal not happening is Rae remaining as major shareholder.

Potentially there is an alternative buyer out there, but that is very unlikely. And that opens us up to another Hugh Scott type who is more interested in the property asset than running the football club. 

 

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1 hour ago, piehutt said:

We are where we are. .

Potentially there is an alternative buyer out there, but that is very unlikely. And that opens us up to another Hugh Scott type who is more interested in the property asset than running the football club. 

 

That is exactly where we are. 

AWMSC

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4 hours ago, piehutt said:

We are where we are. 

Plenty of people lining up to criticise Rae and I don't disagree that the money spent on the team (especially in the early days) was badly apportioned. 

But the alternative to the MCT deal not happening is Rae remaining as major shareholder.

Potentially there is an alternative buyer out there, but that is very unlikely. And that opens us up to another Hugh Scott type who is more interested in the property asset than running the football club. 

 

Zzzzzz

 

3 hours ago, EanieMeany said:

That is exactly where we are. 

absolutely. Doesn’t take an AH-HA moment to realise this. Some people...

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11 hours ago, piehutt said:

Completely agree. 

 

The Rae's have plunged millions into the club over the last 2 decades - I'm sure far more than the £2.6 million debt on the balance sheet. Ok, it often could have been better spent, especially in Dougie's tenure, but in the more recent decade it has simply been keeping us afloat. 

 

If Crawford really didn't care about the club, Golden Casket could put the club into administration tomorrow. They will be the largest creditor and if no buyer was found who could cover a chunk of the debt, assets would be sold off and they'd get the vast majority of their money back with Morton FC going into liquidation or being saved in name only, with no assets or cash. 

 

If he didn't care, he could also lease the ground back at market value, rather than a peppercorn rent. So he is putting the future financial success of Morton above his own pocket. I'm guessing if someone was to come in & try and take control of the club, Rae could insist on a market value lease and leave MCT with a significant financial advantage. 

 

It would be nice for Rae to signal a future intention if he would be happy / keen for MCT to purchase the ground at some point and MCT to work towards that. I'm sure he would or else all he has is an asset that is of little benefit to him financially, other than to shore up the GC balance sheet. 

 

I also think there is a danger if MCT owned the club with a £3 million asset and only 600 or so people voting on appointments and major decisions that the organisation could be infiltrated by people who wanted to control that asset and sell it. 

 

On the Morton balance sheet, fixed assets are valued at £3.1 million. Assuming that includes the ground and car park - I actually think on the open market it could / would fetch that, maybe more. There are plenty of housing companies and land bankers who would take on the property, knowing at some point they will get planning permission for residential / retail. At that point the land would be worth anything from £5 million to £10 million, probably suitable for over 300 dwellings in terms of flats, terraces & semis like nearby developments along the A78 corridor. 

I've seen this at golf courses where companies will buy up land without planning permission and golf clubs or nearby farmers will get millions for relatively small parcels of land even with no immediate intention of building. 

I can assure you the vast majority if not all interested parties would not pay a significant sum upfront for development land that does not have planning permission for the proposed use especially when Cappielow would be a non-incoming producing asset. I accept there is potential for redevelopment but Cappielow is a compromised secondary site with significant costs before you would see any return. As for the timescale? Thankfully, MCT has a member on board with the experience and knowledge to advise on such matters.

If this was Twitter your post would be flagged as fake news,

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21 hours ago, piehutt said:

Completely agree. 

 

The Rae's have plunged millions into the club over the last 2 decades - I'm sure far more than the £2.6 million debt on the balance sheet. Ok, it often could have been better spent, especially in Dougie's tenure, but in the more recent decade it has simply been keeping us afloat. 

 

If Crawford really didn't care about the club, Golden Casket could put the club into administration tomorrow. They will be the largest creditor and if no buyer was found who could cover a chunk of the debt, assets would be sold off and they'd get the vast majority of their money back with Morton FC going into liquidation or being saved in name only, with no assets or cash. 

 

If he didn't care, he could also lease the ground back at market value, rather than a peppercorn rent. So he is putting the future financial success of Morton above his own pocket. I'm guessing if someone was to come in & try and take control of the club, Rae could insist on a market value lease and leave MCT with a significant financial advantage. 

 

It would be nice for Rae to signal a future intention if he would be happy / keen for MCT to purchase the ground at some point and MCT to work towards that. I'm sure he would or else all he has is an asset that is of little benefit to him financially, other than to shore up the GC balance sheet. 

 

I also think there is a danger if MCT owned the club with a £3 million asset and only 600 or so people voting on appointments and major decisions that the organisation could be infiltrated by people who wanted to control that asset and sell it. 

 

On the Morton balance sheet, fixed assets are valued at £3.1 million. Assuming that includes the ground and car park - I actually think on the open market it could / would fetch that, maybe more. There are plenty of housing companies and land bankers who would take on the property, knowing at some point they will get planning permission for residential / retail. At that point the land would be worth anything from £5 million to £10 million, probably suitable for over 300 dwellings in terms of flats, terraces & semis like nearby developments along the A78 corridor. 

I've seen this at golf courses where companies will buy up land without planning permission and golf clubs or nearby farmers will get millions for relatively small parcels of land even with no immediate intention of building. 

300 dwelling units on a 9 acre site is 33 per acre. That seems a bit on the high side.

"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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14 minutes ago, Alibi said:

300 dwelling units on a 9 acre site is 33 per acre. That seems a bit on the high side.

Fair enough, if it's a bit less. Just some rough numbers showing how developers and speculators think. 

I'm just making the point that the land isn't worth nothing and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it would / could be rezoned for development and that there are definitely people who would 'take a punt' on such a large site before it had been rezoned. 

However I'm sure this is not something Crawford wants to consider, but who knows what a more self-interested Golden Casket board would think. 

 

 

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On 12/13/2020 at 9:59 AM, 9 Strathblane Crescent said:

No, The car park and stadium are under Greenock Morton. There was a company set up called Greenock Morton FC (Property Ltd) which is still active but is dormant. Nothing to stop Crawford using that company to hive of the ground.  That  company was set up to take advantage of the Tall Ships as Dougie planned to use the car park for that purpose. There was a reason it was never used for that purpose which I can't remember but it might come back to me.

I just saw this - interesting as I thought I had read somewhere that the car park was deliberately hived off by the family as they believed it had development value. 

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5 hours ago, HamCam said:

I just saw this - interesting as I thought I had read somewhere that the car park was deliberately hived off by the family as they believed it had development value. 

Is this conversation happening too late perhaps?
The land information page has a note at the top saying they are processing an application that may change info on the title

Property summary for REN40182 - ScotLIS - Registers of Scotland (ros.gov.uk)

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33 minutes ago, ayrstorm said:

Is this conversation happening too late perhaps?
The land information page has a note at the top saying they are processing an application that may change info on the title

Property summary for REN40182 - ScotLIS - Registers of Scotland (ros.gov.uk)

The recent activity at Companies House suggests that Nick is getting the paperwork in order to do something with Cappielow.

GREENOCK MORTON FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House) (company-information.service.gov.uk)

All the heritable property of Cappielow is "released from charge", meaning there's no debt attached to it that would prevent it from being somehow sold or whatever.

Presumably - and it is a presumption, not a definite - this is with a view to spinning it out to Golden Casket or another third party and getting it off Morton's asset sheet, as was the plan announced by MCT.

It would be expected in such a scenario that the car park is also spirited away.

For safe-keeping, you understand. Not as part of an asset-stripping exercise. No way.

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