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Crawford Rae, Cappielow and MCT


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4 hours ago, HamCam said:

Sadly, the Rae family do not share DDFR's passion for the club and in the circumstances they just want out without incurring any further losses. Much as I don't like it I understand their position, I am more disappointed that DDFR did not make the appropriate arrangements to protect the club, as promised. MCT find themselves in an almost impossible position but I believe they have to explore all options before putting a proposal to members on the way forward. Telling the family to do one may be instantly gratifying but ultimately self-defeating. 

Dougie wanted to clear all the debt the club had to Golden Casket, as promised, but Crawford wouldn't agree to that. Hence only £500k was written off instead of the full amount.

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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44 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

'Mistakes have been made': by Golden Casket as owners and operators of GMFC.

Who must pay for these mistakes: everyone else except Golden Casket!

It's just not going to happen on those gormless, simpering terms though. 

As I said, the two options are: the club continues to cut costs and relegation goes from possible to inevitable. 

Or the club raises money through conventional means and through MCT to try and keep things cobbled together until April. 

 

'Gormless, simpering terms'

What are these? We await the detail of the takeover agreement and lease. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, TONofmemories said:

"We are where we are"

Oh, fuck off and give me peace. We just accept it now?

We've not accepted anything, but folk holding a grievance to the Rae's for funding things and arranging the finances as they have is not constructive or going to change anything. 

As things stand Rae controls the debt and the asset so nothing will happen without him being on board and signing off on it. 

Of course MCT have to scrutinise and negotiate where possible, but people have to see the bigger picture and the potential we have under fan ownership, with a few quid in donations each month and hopefully a much more robust business making the best use of our employees, commercial potential and energising the fan base again. 

 

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1 hour ago, piehutt said:

With regards to the situation changing and the club being in a bigger hole financially. We are where we are. Budgets were made, mistakes were made with regards to how many would stream and the quality of the stream etc. and probably a hope that we'd have 15% capacity back at games by now (which would cover our home crowd). 

The club can either cut costs to get through the season (and obviously risk relegation) or MCT / the fans can fill the gaps to try and give us the best chance of taking over a Championship club. I've certainly purchased my 2 game package to help out. 

Agree that MCT have to, and I understand are, taking fans concerns about the stadium on board. I would hope that these concerns will be largely placated by the terms of the lease and (hopefully) some kind of realistic plan and timescales for the stadium to pass back into Morton ownership. 

I was initially sceptical that Rae / GC would want money from this deal at some point, but I now believe it's an accounting practice and that simply writing off £2.6 million of debt will leave GC with a huge tax bill. 

No doubt there will be some that will never be satisfied with whatever MCT agree. 687 MCT members suggests there's a fair number who attend regularly that haven't committed to MCT at present. Especially as a number of MCT members are out of towners who rarely go to games. 

So that's a meaningful market of fans to tap into and get on board. 

 

 

I am an out of towner who has not yet committed to MCT.  initially, I was put off by the GMST experience, a concern this path would only ensure the Raes reduced or as it appears, stopped paying their share of running costs and watching as the  budget was used to assemble a bloated and imbalanced squad . In the current circumstances, the only thing stopping me signing up is the Rae issue.

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22 minutes ago, 9 Strathblane Crescent said:

Dougie wanted to clear all the debt the club had to Golden Casket, as promised, but Crawford wouldn't agree to that. Hence only £500k was written off instead of the full amount.

As I understand the ownership (back then), If DDFR had wanted to clear the balance sheet he could and should have done it. 

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14 minutes ago, piehutt said:

We've not accepted anything, but folk holding a grievance to the Rae's for funding things and arranging the finances as they have is not constructive or going to change anything. 

As things stand Rae controls the debt and the asset so nothing will happen without him being on board and signing off on it. 

Of course MCT have to scrutinise and negotiate where possible, but people have to see the bigger picture and the potential we have under fan ownership, with a few quid in donations each month and hopefully a much more robust business making the best use of our employees, commercial potential and energising the fan base again. 

 

Unless I am missing something is it not the family rather than just Crawford that is the issue? I understood it was the other family members who had said enough is enough after Crawford offered up his three-year plan for the future. Where Crawford is clearly culpable is in not managing the process to hand over to another party - having the manager pay the bills, begging e-mails etc is not a strategy. 

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11 minutes ago, HamCam said:

As I understand the ownership (back then), If DDFR had wanted to clear the balance sheet he could and should have done it. 

He wouldn't go against Crawford and the rest of the family. But it was mainly Crawford who persuaded him not to.

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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8 minutes ago, 9 Strathblane Crescent said:

He wouldn't go against Crawford and the rest of the family. But it was mainly Crawford who persuaded him not to.

Fair enough but he should have managed the process better rather than leave it for others to deal with.

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1 hour ago, piehutt said:

Everyone thinks they have more time than they do. Dougie was still very active into his 80s. 

Who knows what the plan was or if they did enact some of it to prevent the debt getting even higher. 

 

 

Not sure that is true - most folk in their 80s would know the grim reaper was on the horizon and plan accordingly. It always surprises me how many folk do not have a will and/or a will that does not set out what they want to happen when they die. For most it is not a major issue but DDFR  had a significant estate and his estate planning should have addressed his intentions for GMFC.

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2 hours ago, piehutt said:

 

As I said, the two options are: the club continues to cut costs and relegation goes from possible to inevitable. 

Or the club raises money through conventional means and through MCT to try and keep things cobbled together until April. 

Nope, try again. MCT is already investing substantial money in the club as part of its existing agreement. If the club wants fresh capital from the fans' group then it has to set out what MCT gets in return.

'We don't get relegated/the club doesn't die' is not a bargaining stance. Golden Casket has to put real, tangible gains on the table in exchange for money to clear their self-inflicted mess. It's that straightforward.

"'Gormless, simpering terms'

What are these? We await the detail of the takeover agreement and lease."

The gormless simpering terms refers to your "we are where we are" routine champ.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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44 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Nope, try again. MCT is already investing substantial money in the club as part of its existing agreement. If the club wants fresh capital from the fans' group then it has to set out what MCT gets in return.

'We don't get relegated/the club dies' is not sufficient. Golden Casket has to put real, tangible gains on the table in exchange for money to clear their self-inflicted mess. It's that straightforward.

 

"'Gormless, simpering terms'

What are these? We await the detail of the takeover agreement and lease."

The gormless simpering terms refers to your "we are where we are" routine champ.

Those are just the realities. Almost every club in Scotland will be under serious financial pressure and behind where they would have hoped to be at this stage.

Rae isn't blameless, but he's under no obligation to put anything else on the table or fund the club out of his own pocket.

I don't think Rae or MCT are going to play hardball with the deal that is being put on the table. Both parties want it to happen. 

Most likely situation is there will be further cuts to the playing squad. 

My guess is other clubs will be in similar positions and we may find that we aren't all that worse off in terms of 1st team squad than other teams in the division. 

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We don't have any boys to play instead but we could actually lose five or six players and not suffer much if they were in the right position. The versatility of Jacobs and McAlister is also a significant bonus if they are kept around. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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That's the thing - trimming the squad isn't that bad of an idea. We have too many players in certain positions, some of them might actually want first team football now and again.

But in typical Morton fashion we've handled it in the worst possible way: first by permitting the manager to build a woefully imbalanced squad, then seemingly leaving it to him to keep them happy, fed, and able to travel*, and then having no plan to deal with this.

Well, there was a plan. That plan was for Crawford, sans board, to sit down with the manager and say, "Er, remember all those guys we let you sign back in August and September? Can you punt some of them, because apparently in the last three months we've found we can't afford them. Punt about six."

Why was the CEO signing off on these deals? Did the board set a budget and then find it to be exceeded, or did they just pull the rug out from under Hopkin midway through the campaign? All these questions and more have one common answer - think of the most bone-headed, amateurish, and feckless way of dealing with it, then multiply it by ten, and it's probably what happened.

*I still can't quite believe that this happened, by the way. Let's assume McElhone has given an accurate picture of events. Was the CEO aware of this stuff? Is he alright with travel expenses being funded from outside club funds? Are these being recorded somewhere?

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5 hours ago, piehutt said:

Those are just the realities. Almost every club in Scotland will be under serious financial pressure and behind where they would have hoped to be at this stage.

Rae isn't blameless, but he's under no obligation to put anything else on the table or fund the club out of his own pocket.

I don't think Rae or MCT are going to play hardball with the deal that is being put on the table. Both parties want it to happen. 

Most likely situation is there will be further cuts to the playing squad. 

My guess is other clubs will be in similar positions and we may find that we aren't all that worse off in terms of 1st team squad than other teams in the division. 

This may very well be the case, and i realise im taking this point in isolation and ignoring rest of what's been said, but every other club in Scotland doesn't have a track record of doing fuck all to generate cash via alternative means. Every other club in Scotland hadn't been so inept at all aspects commercial/marketing etc for as long as i can remember. Only 1 family at fault for that. Ultimately, buck stops with them. 

 

This sitting back  and pleading poverty, whilst doing fuck all to help yourself, is NOT good enough and its been accepted for  far too long. 

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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3 hours ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

I can see the off loading of half a dozen (or more) players in January and the 1st team being made up with boys.

Not quite as easy as just letting players go.

They all have contracts and I doubt any player is just going to walk away without his contract being significantly paid up. You'd have to be nuts to walk away in this climate unless you have something similar lined up and let's be honest, if we are letting you go, you're not going to walk into another full time contract easily.

Unless of course we let our best players go and if we do that, we might as well chuck it.

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4 minutes ago, Madton said:

Not quite as easy as just letting players go. 

They all have contracts and I doubt any player is just going to walk away without his contract being significantly paid up. You'd have to be nuts to walk away in this climate unless you have something similar lined up and let's be honest, if we are letting you go, you're not going to walk into another full time contract easily.

Unless of course we let our best players go and if we do that, we might as well chuck it.

 

The stoat-the-baw wierdo's at Queens Park FC are signing anyone that has erm, stoated-a-baw at Cappielow nowadays.   Our supposed 'senior' players like 'Jim' will be dead certs to get a gig there.

*insert signature here*

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