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BishopLenBrennan

Election Thread

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I can't see anything other than a Tory majority, with the outside chance of a Labour/SNP coalition being nothing more than that.


You address me by my proper title, you little bollocks! 


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I can't see anything other than a Tory majority, with the outside chance of a Labour/SNP coalition being nothing more than that.

Jock gets a vote in parochia

Ten long years and we've still get her

Paying tax and doing stir

Worry about it later

 

When the wind blows hard and the wind blows cold

It blows us good

Or so we've been told

Music is food till the Art biz folds.

Let them all eat culture.

 

The past is steeped in shame,

But tomorrow's fair game,

For a life that's fit for living

Good morning Britain.

 

Twenty years and a loaded gun

Funerals, fear and the war ain't won

Paddy's just a figure of fun

It lightens up the danger.

And a corporal sneers at a catholic boy

And he eyes his gun like a rich man's toy

He's killing more than celtic joy

Death is not a stranger.

 

Taffy's time's gonna come one day

It's a loud sweet voice and it won't give way

A house is not a holiday

Your sons are leaving home Neil.

In the hills and the valleys and far away

You can hear the sound of democracy

The echo of eternity

With a Rak-a-Rak-a feel.

 

From the Tyne to where to the Thames does flow

My English brothers and sisters know

It's not a case of where you go

It's race and creed and colour.

From the police cell to the deep dark grave

On the underground's just a stop away

Don't be too black, don't be too gay

Just get a little duller.

 

But in this green and pleasant land,

Where I make my home, I make my stand

Make it cool just to be a man,

A uniform's a traitor.

Love is international

And if you stand or if you fall,

Just let them know you gave your all,

Worry about it later.

 

© 1990 Roddy Frame, East Kilbride.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Jock gets a vote in parochia

Ten long years and we've still get her

Paying tax and doing stir

Worry about it later

 

When the wind blows hard and the wind blows cold

It blows us good

Or so we've been told

Music is food till the Art biz folds.

Let them all eat culture.

 

The past is steeped in shame,

But tomorrow's fair game,

For a life that's fit for living

Good morning Britain.

 

Twenty years and a loaded gun

Funerals, fear and the war ain't won

Paddy's just a figure of fun

It lightens up the danger.

And a corporal sneers at a catholic boy

And he eyes his gun like a rich man's toy

He's killing more than celtic joy

Death is not a stranger.

 

Taffy's time's gonna come one day

It's a loud sweet voice and it won't give way

A house is not a holiday

Your sons are leaving home Neil.

In the hills and the valleys and far away

You can hear the sound of democracy

The echo of eternity

With a Rak-a-Rak-a feel.

 

From the Tyne to where to the Thames does flow

My English brothers and sisters know

It's not a case of where you go

It's race and creed and colour.

From the police cell to the deep dark grave

On the underground's just a stop away

Don't be too black, don't be too gay

Just get a little duller.

 

But in this green and pleasant land,

Where I make my home, I make my stand

Make it cool just to be a man,

A uniform's a traitor.

Love is international

And if you stand or if you fall,

Just let them know you gave your all,

Worry about it later.

 

© 1990 Roddy Frame, East Kilbride.

 

Tl;dr.


You address me by my proper title, you little bollocks! 


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Have no real worries about Inverclyde this time round, England could be a disaster though.

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Have no real worries about Inverclyde this time round, England could be a disaster though.

That is why the place will never improve, people like you have 'no real worries about Inverclyde'.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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The SNP are wiping the floor so far, but fuck me that Tory swing in England and Wales is sickening.


You address me by my proper title, you little bollocks! 


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The SNP are wiping the floor so far, but fuck me that Tory swing in England and Wales is sickening.

As I said above:

 

Jock gets a vote in parochia

Ten long years and we've still got her.

 

SNP may be 'wiping the floor' north of the border, but for all the good that it will do they may as well have their usual wee gang of half a dozen or so, like they had throughout the eighties, nineties and even the first part of the millennium.

 

The SNP are merely the New Scottish Labour Party, and seem to be a mirror image of them in the early nineties - controlling a big cumbersome regional council ineffectively (Labour with SRC, SNP with Holyrood) loads of supporters everywhere making noises but not making a difference; looking for constitutional change for their benefit and no-one else's; plenty of neopatism, scandal, sleaze and skullduggery from within their ranks; returning a busloads and more to Westminster to achieve nothing in particular.

 

I hope they get their coveted #Indyref2. I really do. They may finally shut up about it when they lose that one.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Jo Swinson, leader of the the LibDems, set to lose her seat in East Dunbartonshire.

 

Edit to add: Confirmed. SNP gained by 149 votes.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Jeremy Corbyn standing down from Labour leadership.

 

Edit to add:

 

NOT standing down but gave cryptic message about leading the party through a period of reflection etc.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Except inasmuch as my family is affected, I'm not that bothered about UK politics anymore, but it's interesting to note a bit of a realignment taking place, much as in the US. (The Anglosphere tends to be following this pattern; mainland Europe is, for the most part, not.) Sajid Javid said that the Tories are now the "party of the working class", and while he's doubtless trolling a bit, the fact is that the non-university, older, working-class English voter has now broken Conservative in a way that they wouldn't have until even earlier in this decade. Labour, meanwhile, is increasingly the party of the young and the non-white and the educated and the metropolis. This is similar to how non-college whites have flocked to the Republican party (well, to Trump) in the US, despite their being anathema to the young and the diverse.

 

The items of cleavage in the US were immigration (illegal and otherwise), trade, and exclusion from mainstream life; in England it appears to be mainly around Europe, but I'm open to correction on that because I haven't looked at the polling data closely. Regardless, the traditional "English" vote is now unmistakably Tory, and there are tens of millions of these voters who aren't all going anywhere anytime soon. Labour, should they wish to win elections, would do well to recognize this and adjust accordingly. That in itself is a mission, because while Corbyn will soon step down, whoever comes in will quite simply be demolished if they try to be a Diet Tory. It will take a turnaround of Blair proportions - note: not a rehash of Blairism - to fix this.

 

Either way, it's abundantly clear at this point that Scotland is materially different to England in its politics and its outlook. Whether or not Scotland chooses to be a minor partner in a union that is increasingly unrepresentative of it remains to be seen, but now - as opposed to 2014 - is really the time to ask the question. The SNP can't not push for a referendum now. To do anything but fight for one tooth and nail is to say that it doesn't matter what happens - Brexit, a Tory landslide, whatever - the SNP are happy being a wee opposition party sniping from the sidelines, and so too should be Scotland. Now, instead, is the time to go for it.

 

I am far from convinced that the SNP can offer a convincing case for independence, unfortunately, as they have been for too long defined by their status as opposition to the Tories, rather than a positive case. Yes, we all know they face unfair barriers of the BBC and an otherwise unfair domestic media, but we've known about this for years, and it's on them to fix it. Maybe they can pull it off, but I doubt it. (Open to correction on this, too, since I've not been paying a huge amount of attention.)


Now before Gavin goes, I'd like to ask him one more question.


Do you like Abba?

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SNP lose Fife North East to LibDems.

 

They must have bought of part of the electorate with a slab of K Cider.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Except inasmuch as my family is affected, I'm not that bothered about UK politics anymore, but it's interesting to note a bit of a realignment taking place, much as in the US. (The Anglosphere tends to be following this pattern; mainland Europe is, for the most part, not.) Sajid Javid said that the Tories are now the "party of the working class", and while he's doubtless trolling a bit, the fact is that the non-university, older, working-class English voter has now broken Conservative in a way that they wouldn't have until even earlier in this decade. Labour, meanwhile, is increasingly the party of the young and the non-white and the educated and the metropolis. This is similar to how non-college whites have flocked to the Republican party (well, to Trump) in the US, despite their being anathema to the young and the diverse.

 

The items of cleavage in the US were immigration (illegal and otherwise), trade, and exclusion from mainstream life; in England it appears to be mainly around Europe, but I'm open to correction on that because I haven't looked at the polling data closely. Regardless, the traditional "English" vote is now unmistakably Tory, and there are tens of millions of these voters who aren't all going anywhere anytime soon. Labour, should they wish to win elections, would do well to recognize this and adjust accordingly. That in itself is a mission, because while Corbyn will soon step down, whoever comes in will quite simply be demolished if they try to be a Diet Tory. It will take a turnaround of Blair proportions - note: not a rehash of Blairism - to fix this.

 

Either way, it's abundantly clear at this point that Scotland is materially different to England in its politics and its outlook. Whether or not Scotland chooses to be a minor partner in a union that is increasingly unrepresentative of it remains to be seen, but now - as opposed to 2014 - is really the time to ask the question. The SNP can't not push for a referendum now. To do anything but fight for one tooth and nail is to say that it doesn't matter what happens - Brexit, a Tory landslide, whatever - the SNP are happy being a wee opposition party sniping from the sidelines, and so too should be Scotland. Now, instead, is the time to go for it.

 

I am far from convinced that the SNP can offer a convincing case for independence, unfortunately, as they have been for too long defined by their status as opposition to the Tories, rather than a positive case. Yes, we all know they face unfair barriers of the BBC and an otherwise unfair domestic media, but we've known about this for years, and it's on them to fix it. Maybe they can pull it off, but I doubt it. (Open to correction on this, too, since I've not been paying a huge amount of attention.)

The person whom would have been the best possible replacement for Jeremy Corbyn had defected to the LibDems in protest against Corbyn, and ironically enough lost the seat he was contesting this evening.

 

Corbyn and the Corbynites are* a cancer to the Labour Party, they would be best ridding themselves of that element in order to make themselves look a decent electable party once again.

 

*edited typo


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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The person whom would have been the best possible replacement for Jeremy Corbyn had defected to the LibDems in protest against Corbyn, and ironically enough lost the seat he was contesting this evening.

 

Corbyn and the Corbynites are* a cancer to the Labour Party, they would be best ridding themselves of that element in order to make themselves look a decent electable party once again.

 

*edited typo

 

I saw that. My personal opinion is that if the entire party got behind Corbyn after he was elected leader, they could have won this election, but they didn't. Thus the divide between the traditional Labour voter and the Corbynite wing - some of whom were really old-school, but most of whom were either very young or Johnny-come-latelies to the party - couldn't present a united front against what was, from the outside looking in, a bit of a media onslaught. The house divided itself could not stand. 

 

In the non-hypothetical timeline, though, I'm not convinced that Umunna would have won. There are too many seats pro-Leave while pro-Remain is concentrated in the safe metropolises and in the non-English countries, even a plurality of which would have been nowhere near enough to overturn tonight's result. They definitely wouldn't have been demolished as much as tonight, but it wouldn't have been enough.

 

Either way, Labour's inability to present a united front ended them in this election, in my admittedly ignorant opinion. We know the Tories are split between on Europe - 'twas ever thus, with the Euroskeptic wing having immense power from the late 80s onwards - but despite this they've managed to stay on-message for most of the intervening period, even when that message was dugmeat. Labour, on the other hand, are quite visibly and existentially ripping themselves apart. The "reflection" period that Corbyn is mooting is going to make this worse, but at least they could come out stronger on the other side. Either way, too little, too late.


Now before Gavin goes, I'd like to ask him one more question.


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The person whom would have been the best possible replacement for Jeremy Corbyn had defected to the LibDems in protest against Corbyn, and ironically enough lost the seat he was contesting this evening.

 

Corbyn and the Corbynites are* a cancer to the Labour Party, they would be best ridding themselves of that element in order to make themselves look a decent electable party once again.

 

*edited typo

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:


AWMSC

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I saw that. My personal opinion is that if the entire party got behind Corbyn after he was elected leader, they could have won this election, but they didn't. Thus the divide between the traditional Labour voter and the Corbynite wing - some of whom were really old-school, but most of whom were either very young or Johnny-come-latelies to the party - couldn't present a united front against what was, from the outside looking in, a bit of a media onslaught. The house divided itself could not stand. 

 

In the non-hypothetical timeline, though, I'm not convinced that Umunna would have won. There are too many seats pro-Leave while pro-Remain is concentrated in the safe metropolises and in the non-English countries, even a plurality of which would have been nowhere near enough to overturn tonight's result. They definitely wouldn't have been demolished as much as tonight, but it wouldn't have been enough.

 

Either way, Labour's inability to present a united front ended them in this election, in my admittedly ignorant opinion. We know the Tories are split between on Europe - 'twas ever thus, with the Euroskeptic wing having immense power from the late 80s onwards - but despite this they've managed to stay on-message for most of the intervening period, even when that message was dugmeat. Labour, on the other hand, are quite visibly and existentially ripping themselves apart. The "reflection" period that Corbyn is mooting is going to make this worse, but at least they could come out stronger on the other side. Either way, too little, too late.

Corbyn was the big problem though. He was unelectable. He is a relic from the dark ages and the world has progressed from the likes of him and his ilk. The bandwagon that he seems to have attracted are the dugmeat and the dregs of humanity, that is why they have such a MASSIVE problem with anti-Semitism.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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I saw that. My personal opinion is that if the entire party got behind Corbyn after he was elected leader, they could have won this election, but they didn't. Thus the divide between the traditional Labour voter and the Corbynite wing - some of whom were really old-school, but most of whom were either very young or Johnny-come-latelies to the party - couldn't present a united front against what was, from the outside looking in, a bit of a media onslaught. The house divided itself could not stand. 

 

 

I think this is quite a key point that's continuously over-looked. Labour hadn't won an election in years and showed no real signs of doing so with their centrist/neo-liberal policies and leaders.

 

Step in a figure who, by and large, rejected all of that and the "more of the same but with velvet gloves" rubbish - which a certain Scottish leader could be accused of too - and the right of the party immediately went in to attack mode and set about under-mining the leadership (and by extension, hugely increased and mobilised membership) at every opportunity and helped create the quite absurd media storm around Corbyn that, frankly any sensible person should have found distasteful.

 

The right of the Labour party brought us the Iraq War and the 2010 coalition, the centre failed to prevent a Cameron majority in 2015 and they still had the hubris and arrogance to actively sabotage the Corbyn leadership from the off. There's absolutely no doubt that that played a massive role, before pointing fingers elsewhere we should be looking at the characters that were willing to bring the whole thing down to prevent even the most modest shift to the left.

 

The Corbyn project was not one of extremism, and nor was Corbyn himself despite all the shite that's written about him. Every single election since 1979 has been won by a right-wing leader, I don't really think sensible people should be wasting too much time on this fantasy notion that there's some other figure that's going to be bring a policy agenda that can reverse the damage of those 40 years and not be absolutely pilloried by the billionaire press - Ed bloody Milliband got pelters for eating a roll, and we've already seen the foundations of the campaign against the likes of Angela Rayner.

 

The big question now is whether Scotland really wants to pursue a more progressive agenda, or if we're just going to keep kidding on we do whilst fawning over a pro-privatisation, pro-centralisation, maximum oil extraction/minimum taxation government that's in the pockets of every corporate lobbyist with a few bob to spare.


AWMSC

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Corbyn was the big problem though. He was unelectable. He is a relic from the dark ages and the world has progressed from the likes of him and his ilk. The bandwagon that he seems to have attracted are the dugmeat and the dregs of humanity, that is why they have such a MASSIVE problem with anti-Semitism.

 

Even if that was true it doesn't really explain 40 years of Tory Governments (I can't really be bothered removing Blair or Brown from that). Even if Corbyn was some raving anti-semite (he isn't), he'd still have a huge way to go to catch up with his opponents or their media pals to match them.


AWMSC

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Even if that was true it doesn't really explain 40 years of Tory Governments (I can't really be bothered removing Blair or Brown from that). Even if Corbyn was some raving anti-semite (he isn't), he'd still have a huge way to go to catch up with his opponents or their media pals to match them.

^^^whitabootery.

 

Your chumps lost. Dry your eyes.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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^^^whitabootery.

 

Your chumps lost. Dry your eyes.

 

If you're going to suggest Chukku Ummuna is the national saviour, I don't really think there's any point in anything more nuanced, tbh.

 

That said, it's not really whataboutery to suggest that putting the victory of an overtly racist party and leader down to an overtly anti-racist leader being...*checks notes*  racist driving voters into the arms of the overtly racist party is complete and utter bollocks.

 

Again, even if Corbyn was some mad racist (which surely no sensible person actually thinks he is), it's still not a patch on the other mob and the idea that it's a reason for people supporting the party that brought us Grenfell and the Windrush deportations is utterly fanciful.


AWMSC

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If you're going to suggest Chukku Ummuna is the national saviour, I don't really think there's any point in anything more nuanced, tbh.

He could have been the salvation of the the Labour Party.

He's young, intelligent, articulate, likeable... A lot of the things that old Steptoe Corbyn isn't.

 

I think Labour needs a female leader. A bit of a looker. That might do the trick.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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Where did I say racist? I mentioned anti-semitism, which Labour does have a problem with. Funnily enough, those in that party with that very problem are also very quick to accuse others of 'racism' - and very often they're Muslims who have a Pro-palestine agenda.


You know I hate every pop star that I ever met.

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How big a deal was the anti-semitism thing? I'm thousands of miles away and don't have a good read on the UK media anymore, but I saw it coming up a lot whenever I did dig into it. Was it something that actually made a difference, or was it something that only mattered on Twitter?


Now before Gavin goes, I'd like to ask him one more question.


Do you like Abba?

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