Poor wee Rangers - Page 11 - General Morton Chatter - TheMortonForum.com Jump to content
TheMortonForum.com

Poor wee Rangers


pink_panther

Recommended Posts

I don't entirely disagree with the first paragraph. It is a weasely word and the "hatred", such as it is, is in a post-Christian society more accurately described as ethnic rather than religious. But a lot of these words are imprecise. A lot of anti-Muslim sentiment is referred to as "racism", for example, even though race is usually secondary or even absent; and anti-Semitism would by the dictionary also mean anti-Arab (their being a Semitic people as well) or perhaps even anti-Maltese, but we all know what it means. So I'm happy enough to go with the shorthand here, while acknowledging that it's wrong.

 

My contention, as earlier in the thread, is that this ethnic conflict ultimately doesn't matter, has next to no impact on the actual mechanics of life when compared with manifold other social phenomena that don't get one-tenth of the public attention, and that this whole kerfuffle is 100% manufactured by two sets of fans trying to get each other punished and censured (and censored) by any means they can. Celtic fans have had the most success here, but Rangers fans have had the odd victory from time to time as well.

 

You are absolutely correct that these punishments - being something that actually matter - will have far more success than anything else tried. And because "sectarianism" doesn't matter, there's unlikely to be any kind of backlash that would result if something actually important were cracked down upon.

I didn’t claim that there wasn’t any sectarian or anti-religious (i.e religion v religion) hatred within UEFA: of course there is. It’s just not the same beast as the (faux) ethnic ‘Irish’/‘British’ clash that defines an Old Firm rivalry, which can be filed in the same box as countless Balkan-level ethnic clashes.

 

Your contention about the lack of importance of ‘ethnic’ - or racial - conflict in modern Scotland could just as easily be applied to the Cagliari incident with Romelu Lukaku last weekend. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that Sardinia is a fundamentally racist society with an unusual (compared to the mainland) social problem regarding race. Yet we can and should deal with the minority dickhead views within their fanbase instead of letting them fester. I don’t see any difference between that and either the anti-Irish or anti-British ethnic hatred being vented in Scotland in a weekly basis, both of which can now quite clearly be put in their box through credible sanctions. There is no bad outcome here: bigotry loses and everyone else wins.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 218
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I didn’t claim that there wasn’t any sectarian or anti-religious (i.e religion v religion) hatred within UEFA: of course there is. It’s just not the same beast as the (faux) ethnic ‘Irish’/‘British’ clash that defines an Old Firm rivalry, which can be filed in the same box as countless Balkan-level ethnic clashes.

 

Your contention about the lack of importance of ‘ethnic’ - or racial - conflict in modern Scotland could just as easily be applied to the Cagliari incident with Romelu Lukaku last weekend. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that Sardinia is a fundamentally racist society with an unusual (compared to the mainland) social problem regarding race. Yet we can and should deal with the minority dickhead views within their fanbase instead of letting them fester. I don’t see any difference between that and either the anti-Irish or anti-British ethnic hatred being vented in Scotland in a weekly basis, both of which can now quite clearly be put in their box through credible sanctions. There is no bad outcome here: bigotry loses.

 

I think anyone engaging honestly would - while not necessarily defending either incident - draw a distinction between monkey noises at a player of African descent, and fans shouting "sectarianisms" at each other. Again, this doesn't even necessarily mean defending one, nor even saying one is more severe than the other (even though that is obviously the case.) You can't on the one hand make appeals to historians while then saying there isn't "any difference" between them.

 

Again, there is virtually zero actual impact on daily life from "sectarianism" in Scotland and hasn't been for decades. I don't think the same is true of the black population - legal or otherwise - in Italy.

EOho8Pw.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You already conceded that ‘sectarian’ is in fact just a weasel word cop-out for common or garden ethnic bigotry. Why should it matter at all if ape chants happen to be a more vivid, disgusting and offensive metaphor to your Texan emigrant mind than chants about the Irish famine seem to anyone else? One is a pathetic, racist trope; the other celebrates the death of two million people.

 

There’s no such thing as sectarianism in this discussion - it’s all ethnic or race-based hatred. And football clubs whose moronic minority (Cagliari at best ) or majority (Cagliari at worst; the Old Firm literally as a business model for decades) peddle in it should be punished accordingly. No exceptions required,

 

You’ve yet to cite a single, credible downside of such UEFA, SFA. SPFL punishments being imposed against them other than some nonsense abstract argument about the individual freedom to be a bigot.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You already conceded that ‘sectarian’ is in fact just a weasel word cop-out for common or garden ethnic bigotry. Why should it matter at all if ape chants happen to be a more vivid, disgusting and offensive metaphor to your Texan emigrant mind than chants about the Irish famine seem to anyone else? One is a pathetic, racist trope; the other celebrates the death of two million people.

 

Because as I said earlier, the two gold standards that prevent an erosion of free speech are concrete effects and community standards. Anything else opens the door for two things: to use the levers of power as a mode to punish one's opponents, and for scolds to control the discourse. And scolds never, ever stop, so the erosion is constant.

 

 

There’s no such thing as sectarianism in this discussion - it’s all ethnic or race-based hatred. And football clubs whose moronic minority (Cagliari at best ) or majority (Cagliari at worst; the Old Firm literally as a business model for decades) peddle in it should be punished accordingly. No exceptions required,

 

You’ve yet to cite a single, credible downside of such UEFA, SFA. SPFL punishments being imposed against them other than some nonsense abstract argument about the individual freedom to be a bigot.

 

I'm pretty small-c conservative when it comes to retaining the rights of free expression. The null hypothesis in all of these cases - Lukaku included, admittedly - is "doing nothing". We've been doing little to nothing in Scotland for years, yet the sun rises each day and the concrete effects of sectarianism are barely a footnote to a footnote in the list of society's ills. For this reason I think the two downsides I mention above are sufficient.

EOho8Pw.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear UEFA

 

Is it okay if we keep singing about being up to our knees in the blood of a given set of people if we use a slightly more euphemistic pejorative term for them?

 

Yours sincerely

 

Fans of Rangers FC, est. 1874; 147 years ago (it says so on Wikipedia)

WATP

 

 

 

Dear Fans of The Rangers FC, est. 2012; 7 years ago

 

No. GTF.

 

Regards,

 

Sane minds everywhere

Don’t think either of the Rangers were founded in 1874.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear UEFA

 

Is it okay if we keep singing about being up to our knees in the blood of a given set of people if we use a slightly more euphemistic pejorative term for them?

 

Yours sincerely

 

Fans of Rangers FC, est. 1872; 147 years ago (it says so on Wikipedia)

WATP

 

 

 

Dear Fans of The Rangers FC, est. 2012; 7 years ago

 

No. GTF.

 

Regards,

 

Sane minds everywhere

Stick to entering kids contests. :)

*insert signature here*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I grasp the arguments, just observing, from your posts, that your opinion comes across as leaning slightly to one side.

 

Then feel free to reverse every name I've put in every post, and the same arguments still apply, because the reason I'm talking about Rangers is that this specific situation is about Rangers. I even raised, at the very beginning, the fact that the word '****' was successfully banned by Rangers fans using the same playbook, and that I disagreed with it then, if you're doubting me on this.

EOho8Pw.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, so why's it suspicious that I'm pointing out that (some) Celtic fans are using this to target Rangers, rather than just accepting that I'm doing this because it's germane to the topic in which I'm posting?

EOho8Pw.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching tonight's championship shitefest involving the Possil bigots and the first time they sung their wee blatantly sectarian ditty was 6mins and 2 seconds into the game.

 

What would be the odds of the SFA censuring them for this? Not a hope in hell.

*insert signature here*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching tonight's championship shitefest involving the Possil bigots and the first time they sung their wee blatantly sectarian ditty was 6mins and 2 seconds into the game.

What would be the odds of the SFA censuring them for this? Not a hope in hell.

Was sung again 68mins 15seconds.

 

Bigoted scumbags. Kick these bastards out of football.

 

 

Then again 74 mins and 10seconds.

 

Its like they are asking to be punished. They must have a loan of the Green Brigade's victim card.

*insert signature here*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...