Leaderboard

The other option should be telling Crawford and GC to go fuck themselves.

Makes me think his promise of reducing the debt by 500K for every 100K raised by MCT was merely a ruse to get the club thru the season without any financial input from GC. Or to be more blunt; a lie.

Agreed. MCT really aren't looking too clever just now and I've little faith in them tbh.

The bottom line here is Crawford Rae can't be trusted and that's what MCT should remember when hopefully getting back around the negotiating table. If either option 1 or 2 is accepted it's going against its members wishes and also those of the wider fanbase. It will be the end of Morton.

Let's just assume for a minute that Crawford is genuine in trying to protect the long-term interest of GMFC by keeping ownership of Cappielow with GC, to prevent it from being a creditor asset if we go into administration at some point in the future. There are two big red flags in that argument that should concern us all. Firstly, Crawford himself won't be around forever and will not always have a controlling interest in GC (does he even have now?). This 'promise' is only valid while this is still the case. Secondly, it assumes GC themselves will never get into financial difficulties in the future. If they do, a 2m pound sleeping asset bringing them in 1 pound a week will surely be top of the list for selling-off. In fact, if they they needed that cash to stay afloat and keep the jobs in Fort Maltilda, it would be remiss of then not to do so. This is a route to perma-diddydome and Lowland League obscurity, with Ravenscraig as our home. The only question would be how long it would take us to get there. I'd say 10 years, 20 if we're very lucky.

Don't think you've quite grasped the concept of a consultative survey then champ. The group who have opened up the basis for discussion are MCT. Largely because - unlike your master - they have no need to view fans exercising the right to their opinion as some pesky glasnost reform that will tear down its rule. I'm quite happy to back MCT once the current 24 month pledge window ends - if the money is being kept for ownership or for a fighting fund to pick up the pieces if the Raes even dare trying to pull down the shutters. I will not be backing either of the current options on the table, though I'm willing for MCT to exercise their insider role and judgment to work through the options and make a future recommendation. A thumping declaration of no confidence in the Raes' ridiculous options can only strengthen their hand.

Well, yes. If we're to seriously consider the options, we'd need a lot more information; if we don't or can't get it for whatever reason, then they should be dismissed out of hand. The fact that we've reached this stage with such little clarity - as you say, the picture is now murkier than it was months ago - doesn't reflect well on either party and adds valid grounds for scepticism over what MCT are capable of into mix. If we're going to be told these two options are what's on the table, it's really not a sign of devotion to the Raes to say we should be looking to find out what they really mean rather than the vague outlines that have been given. *Which is also a perfectly valid option in itself, and would be my preferred one. I'm not for a minute here trying to defend the Raes and have zero desire to do so, but it's entirely reasonable to want to know what the options we've been given really entail of if MCT are seemingly happy enough to present them to us.

Maybe we're going for Silver licensing or something? Our First Team licensing went up from Bronze to Silver in the last assessment. No idea otherwise. Maybe the MCT guys on the board wanted it? Also:

The RV does not necessarily correlate with capital value especially in regard to football stadium. The underlying valuation process is merely a convenient 'get out of jail' basis to justify a figure when there is a lack of comparative evidence. I do, however, agree at RV £19,000 it should not be the focus of attention for anyone. The 'real' issue is GC in their benevolence is ensuring MCT never own the property assets or alternatively has to accept £2m of debt. The historic valuation of the ground on a 'cost' related basis is in the accounts. Updating the figure on this basis serves no useful purpose. As Trump has highlighted elsewhere the point to note is what did GC paid for GMFC when DDFR rode to the rescue on his white charger. It appears to me some fans are too eager to be bent over the Boardroom table, thanking their master/GC for a right good shafting before paying for the privilege.

I just thought of something. Why are we on the hook for 100% of the debt when the Raes only paid unsecured creditors 2.29p in the pound when the club emerged from its CVA?

Agreed. I'll be honest, I'd rather kiss goodbye to the club I love than watch it being raped by the Rae family and suffering either a pitiful existence or a slow agonising death.

No more anything let Crawford and GC drown in the shit they've created. Withdraw all funding with immediate effect I'm sure him n his fkn GC board might start playing ball. If not let the more lucrative third party if they even existed step in n take the shit deal he's offering.

I think that's a dangerous assumption to make, particularly given that surely financial viability is dependent in part - in fact, probably for the most part - on the financial terms of GC's separation. You can't demonstrate financial viability without first having a business model, and you can't have a business model without at least basic knowledge of your starting assets and obligations.

I’m personally inclined to reject the entire premise of both options, but I also think the core point cmdc makes is an entirely reasonable one: for either of them to be credible even as propositions, we’d need a helluva lot more detail than we’ve been given. The thing that concerns me most is that MCT are just rolling over and taking whatever rubbish GC peddle without any kind of questioning or scepticism, which is a staggering level of naivety given the Rae’s conduct at every previous turn. If we’re for a minute to countenance the prospect of them walking away with the stadium or leaving a highly suspect debt on the books, we at the very least need some indication of what kind of securities MCT would be insisting upon to protect the club from the Rae family.

Sound. I’ll leave you be on fantasy island.

Think this is well wide of the mark. As an MCT member the objective is to get shot of GC and I'd reject both proposals they've put forward. I'm taking no one at face value and will only vote for an option that's good for Morton long term.

^^ Rae family fan club. The only point i acknowledge is the part about who would want to own a football club. Granted - probably no one; especially at our level, but lets not let that get in the way of the facts; we've been horribly miss-managed since the Rae's took over, all be it we had what appeared to be some good years and for a few years showed some real ambition (granted, it was flawed) of getting to top-flight. We've done absolutely hee-haw to raise additional income through marketing etc since the Rae family became involved. See: "bring a friend" as a marketing strategy. We've over-spent, we've offered players deals without managers even know, then it turns out they cant even play (Tidser) etc etc etc. All of this under the Rae tenure. Debt, although apparently never to be recalled, has been racked up and now, that Dougies gone, his family are calling the shots and want it called back in. Years and years of a millionaire throwing money around senselessly, left to a golfer with zero interest in his late fathers cuddly toy, we are where we are. Wake up, take yer head out the Rae's arse and smell the rat; we're getting royally shafted here. Not acceptable!

The most galling thing about DDFR’s profligacy, is that we don’t have a single cup or a season in the top-flight to show for such reckless expenditure.

Yep, agreed mate. We're obviously not privy to the discussion, and have nothing but good faith to go on, but it doesn't stack up that we supposedly wrote off a significant sum of debt with 100k contributions and now are still faced with the prospect of 2mil. As Dunning said, we've either been lied too, or we're in such horrendous financial footing that we've continued to rack up more debt, seemingly back to the original figure if this nonsense 2 mill is to be believed. I want clarity on where the 500k went; how was it spent and with justification. I'm not believing for a second that after receiving that money we're not able to bring in some out of contract ringer that has been training with us. Nick Robinson - a credible figure and regular poster who used to frequent here. Pipe up and give us some answers. MCT - have an account on here. Pipe up and give us some answers. Cheers.

I wish it was 2m. Last accounts show 2.4m. As submitted last March: GREENOCK MORTON FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House) (company-information.service.gov.uk) Anyone remember those halcyon days when the full accounts used to say things like "This is an interest free unsecured loan which is not repayable in the immediate future"? Wonder what happened there, wonder why it gradually changed from "forseeable future" to "immediate future" to "ha ha now you don't have a stadium?"

Another Rae arse licker who pretended to be a ‘concerned fan’ for a while. The mask has slipped. Fuck off.

The only way that option 1 would be acceptable was if there were watertight legal guarantees that... 1. Cappielow will never, under any circumstances, be sold. The only allowable transfer of ownership will be to GMFC, for no charge. 2. The 1 pound per week lease is fixed in perpetuity. The chances of GC signing up to these conditions are about the same as you being voted themortonforum.com's poster of the year.

Do you really think GC will enter into a 1 pound a week lease in perpetuity, without some kind of get-out clause? That's naïve in the extreme.

While the details are not fully fleshed out, Option 1 clearly states: The club, owned by MCT, will be responsible for the general maintenance and repair of the ground. So either way we're on the hook for maintenance and repair. What other overheads there are (tax?), it's not clear, but I'll hazard a guess that MCT will be responsible. And as for capital improvements, I doubt I'm the only one to have asked this but given that I raised it to MCT last July and nobody's said a peep about it since then, who knows what's happening with those? Not that it's that important in the grand scheme of things because a wee shan office and a floodlight (to give two examples of potential new structures) are pretty worthless without the ground they're constructed on. Not sure why you think "spending money on the ground" is only going to happen with ownership, then, given that MCT have made it plain for ages now that we're on the hook for Cappielow regardless. Spunking all MCT's money on an expensive squad is not an option, never has been an option, and never will be an option. If your main concern about MCT is the shape of the playing squad you are sorely misreading the situation.

Good point. Can you sign over to me ownership of your house and car, just so you're not similarly tempted? Totes promise I won't just sell them in a few years.

Crawford Rae is a wank. Case closed. This same sucking up his arse is the same as many did when Dougie was around. Folk are starting to wake up now and smell a rat. Get him out of our club pronto. He can keep the car park, but the stadium stays with us and the debt is wiped off as promised. I'd like to see MCT have some more backbone.

Okay great, we can officially file this pearl of wisdom, 'aye but, naw but' contribution alongside your 'the Raes spend £900k a year maintaining Cappielow' greatest hit.

I think most people on here couldn't care less about Rae We need to be made aware of which option is actually more financially viable? It's all well and good splurting out options but surely to god the feasibility of these options has to be made more clear by MCT. I may stand to be correct here.... the implications and extra overheads of owning the ground could be financial suicide. It certainly will add to costs which in turn would take away from the budget of the playing squad. I always had the belief that 1 of MCTs main focuses was to make the product on the pitch better not contrive to make it worse.

The first red flag isn't such a significant issue. A robust long term lease would bite against GC's/Cappielow's successor owners. That might also answer the second concern. If, for example, GC went into administration then the lease terms should hold. There would be a more significant problem if GC then went into liquidation.

I don't know - hence why I think we need more details before we can decide between (or against) these options. What MCT have said is that the lease will run for so long as MCT are the owners of Morton, so we need a bit more on how that commitment is to be secured (the point being that it is possible to secure that position pretty robustly) and maybe what that might mean for MCT's potential successors.

My concern is that MCT dont make a complete arse of this and waste fans money... thanks very much.... bloody idiot!!!!!

Your quite the keyboard warrior. I don't confess to be a matriarchal stat welding, quote throwing poster like yourself. I have a life. I asked a question that you yourself couldn't answer. Questions ultimately can be speculated till the bloody cows come home. The only people with the answers are MCT and clearly they will not post on here to explain their hand at this stage!!! All the same questions will be asked and speculation will not stop!!!

As I stated previously through a quick Google...which I'm sure you can do. There are ways of writing off maintenance through tax breaks. There is no way I could see of getting out of paying 5% of the total value of the property when you take ownership. The government want there candy. I may fumble about but that must be a more pressing issue if MCT are to get ownership...yes? No? Would it not be that significant an outlay? I've no clue tbh I read you have some idea of the current rates so do you or anyone have some idea of the valuation of the ground that the rates are based on?

This is such a bizarre fantasy.

And your big reveal is coming when.....let me know and I'll set ma alarm.

If none of the options presented are satisfactory, given all of the time that has passed, you must have another option. Why else would anyone suggest that there is something better coming up Sinclair Street and is going save the day....It's just not going to happen. Again, IMO we have reached an impasse and your either getting on the boat or your not. As I said before, NOW is the time to act and put your support behind MCT, whatever way ownership is decided. If anyone decides not to move forward with the options presented, that's their choice. IMO, time for talk, discussion and alternative ownership is over.

And then what, more bluster and allegations. For fear of repeating masel again......we're past all that and none of the above is going to make an ounce of difference. I

I'm simply saying IMO, I think its far too late to bring other options to the table, which don't involve GC walking away from a significant asset. Again, IMO the scenario of GC walking away is never going to happen and the sooner we get to that realization the sooner we can make the decision to prepare for next season or call it a day. The new season is a few months away and if a deal cannot be reached...well lets face it, it could be disaster. Not just in footballing terms, but I think we may not get to next season based on the current economic outlook and general malaise associated with the whole business. I really hope its not the case, but the fact is we need to make a decision now and stop greetin about woulda, coulda, shoulda. We need action NOW if Greenock Morton is to make it through this disasterous period in its history.

So the fans have spoken and according to the Administrator, 80 odd percent prefer the 3rd option which is...what. Consider this option It would not be unreasonable to assume, maybe CR will simply say F*CKIT, I'm losing money hand over fist and no end in sight. Best thing for me is to shut the doors and let whoever wants to deal with it deal with it. As far as everything else goes after that, well its on them not me. If he does decide to do that, well we would be well and truly F'd. Lets be honest, end of this season, no-one on the payroll and no-one to lookout for or consider, just how hard would it be to close the place down? A lot easier than CR is getting it now. I really don't think anyone who is shouting for the 3rd option, really knows what to expect after the "deal" is done. How would you propose funding the season? How about all of the up front payments just to get the club prepared for next season...........Where is the money coming from? The club is on life-support and we really need to rely on MCT to get us the best deal possible. Now before I start getting sh*te from the usual folks, I'm simply stating an option that is available to CR. If the club was in any other business, the shutters would have been pulled down a long time ago. Ponder this though, no fans, no commercial activity, no TV, sponsorship threatened, no income....who in their right mind would want to own a football club. We're all scunnered with the situation. IMO the bottom line is we either agree to either of the options presented or walk permanently away.