Ayr v The Famous: Scottish Cup

[Toby]

Gillespie’s response was weird. Responding to a fan trying to encourage them to get the finger out at 0-1 down with 5 minutes to go, he bites back saying there’s nothing in the game????

We were a goal down and going out the cup without getting out our half for pretty much the entirety of the second half, in the midst of a pretty miserable season. What did he expect, a pat on the back and for us to wish him better luck next week?

I missed the Imrie incident, while Gillespie’s was right in front of me- I’m maybe just scunnered because I absolutely love the Scottish Cup, but that really fucked me off.

Always been a fan of Gillespie, so he hardly falls into Marc Fitzpatrick territory, but he really needs to have a word with himself after that.

[Deego]

1 hour ago, standman said:

The manager needs to stop swearing at fans too , especially when what was shouted wasn’t totally unreasonable at that particular moment.

After Ballantyne played a terrible ball to Wilson who lost it ( through no fault of his own ) and they nearly scored, someone shouted “just f*****g launch it”

It didn’t warrant Dougie swearing up at him

I heard “f*ing clear your lines” which might’ve been the same shout you heard or an additional one, but I found it amusing that just before telling the fan to fuck up that he’d just finished giving the same instruction himself.

[standman]

Yeah, same incident! It was a bizarre to have a go at the fan for it. 

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, standman said:

Nobody is clutching at pearls.

It’s not appropriate for the manager to be swearing at fans.

Based on what exactly?

If the fans swear at the players or the coaching staff - which they should on today's showing - then what Marquess of Queensberry rules is the manager obliged to follow?

What's not appropriate is for a gubbins team to be circling the wagons around itself, when the fans are not just metaphorically but actually their employers. That's the issue. 

[HamCam]

As expected Imrie was happy with aspects of the performance especially the first half when he believes we could have been 2/3 up. He understands the frustration on the terraces but fails to acknowledge with a bigger spend this season on the squad being out of all the cups before December is unacceptable to the fans. Effectively we have nothing to look forward to this season but are hoping the sand dancers squad Imrie has assembled somehow manage to survive. As for what this means for the finances...

[RossMcC1874]

Imrie with the same pish as per every interview, we are woeful and the fact he thinks we have played well for a large part of this season speaks volumes. 

Gillespie is a bang average player who has had little impact on most of the games he has played for us not sure why he was ever appointed captain tbh. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, HamCam said:

As expected Imrie was happy with aspects of the performance especially the first half when he believes we could have been 2/3 up. He understands the frustration on the terraces but fails to acknowledge with a bigger spend this season on the squad being out of all the cups before December is unacceptable to the fans. Effectively we have nothing to look forward to this season but are hoping the sand dancers squad Imrie has assembled somehow manage to survive. As for what this means for the finances...

We could have been 2 or 3 up but Ayr would have deserved a couple of goals by the same system - clearly one from the stramash. Quite why GMFC think that luck only applies against them is risible.

A bigger spend is irrelevant because we're further down in the pecking order of clubs, with Falkirk replacing Arbroath. We should have spent the budget better but the reality is that it's still the 8th or 9th largest budget in the league we're managing. 

That doesn't excuse today's performance or result. It also doesn't exclude our dreadful exit from the easiest League Cup groip possible, that would have earned extra revenue. 

It is however a reality check to those who think that moar budget = better team. At best an increased budget would have had us treading water - there or thereabouts - in a weak league. 

[SpoonTon]

I feel for Davies a bit. He's been given his opportunity today and put in the effort, but he fluffed his lines when it mattered. Wilson had two opportunities as well, one when his first touch was far too heavy and another when he failed to connect with a header. Three big opportunities there and not an effort on goal between them. Blues' effort was the only one which brought a save out of the keeper. By that point Ayr hadn't got going at all and we messed up our chances. 

From that point on it wasn't even a contest. If it was Falkirk again it would've been another 6-0. 

[LargsTON]

Who the fuck does Imrie think he is biting back at the fans?  His credit in the bank is long gone, he can get to fuck for all I care now.   As can fan ownership.  I can't recall a worse time to be a Morton fan, including the Scott years.  It just feels like we're withering away.  

[TRVMP]

1 hour ago, LargsTON said:

Who the fuck does Imrie think he is biting back at the fans?  His credit in the bank is long gone, he can get to fuck for all I care now.   As can fan ownership.  I can't recall a worse time to be a Morton fan, including the Scott years.  It just feels like we're withering away.  

I don't think it's as bad as all that but the next few months are huge for both MCT and Imrie.

[dunning1874]

10 hours ago, LargsTON said:

Who the fuck does Imrie think he is biting back at the fans?  His credit in the bank is long gone, he can get to fuck for all I care now.   As can fan ownership.  I can't recall a worse time to be a Morton fan, including the Scott years.  It just feels like we're withering away.  

Imrie made an arse of his recruitment in the summer and therefore the whole season, exacerbated by stubbornly clinging to the idea that some of his signings aren't mince, making some of them undroppable when everyone can see the likes of Lyall and Moffat aren't good enough. For me that's not enough to write off all his previous good work, when you have a manager who's gotten you out of a hole before I'm willing to trust he can do it again, keep us up and hopefully learn from his mistakes this season so we're not in the same place in 12 months time, but I can understand being sick of it, particularly when he doubles down on the stubbornness and insists we're playing well and it's all just down to bad luck rather than a glaring lack of quality.

What I don't understand at all is the (already tedious in the space of three years) insistence accompanying every bad run of form that fan ownership is the root of the problem and we need to tear the whole ownership model of the club apart. This didn't happen with every bad run under the Raes, despite them actually doing 20 years of harm, piling literal millions of debt onto the club's books through their own gross incompetence and megalomania.

If you want to abandon fan ownership because the break even model can't possibly work and we can only put a competitive team on the park if we get bankrolled by a private owner, then you're saying we have no alternative but to pile the debt right back on again exactly the way the Raes did. Maybe we'd have a private owner doing it competently next time, actually investing in infrastructure that improves the club's income long term and not giving huge first team budgets to the likes of Jim McInally to waste, but the likelihood is we'll end up right back where we were three years ago. Even if we managed to escape going down the road of Inverness from that position (which is where we'd have ended up then without MCT), we're not going to get away with a debt free club owning the stadium again.

[TONofmemories]

Not the first time Gillespie's had a go at the fans and certainly not the first time for Imrie either. Queens Park away earlier in the season springs to mind. 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

1 hour ago, dunning1874 said:

Imrie made an arse of his recruitment in the summer and therefore the whole season, exacerbated by stubbornly clinging to the idea that some of his signings aren't mince, making some of them undroppable when everyone can see the likes of Lyall and Moffat aren't good enough. For me that's not enough to write off all his previous good work, when you have a manager who's gotten you out of a hole before I'm willing to trust he can do it again, keep us up and hopefully learn from his mistakes this season so we're not in the same place in 12 months time, but I can understand being sick of it, particularly when he doubles down on the stubbornness and insists we're playing well and it's all just down to bad luck rather than a glaring lack of quality.

What I don't understand at all is the (already tedious in the space of three years) insistence accompanying every bad run of form that fan ownership is the root of the problem and we need to tear the whole ownership model of the club apart. This didn't happen with every bad run under the Raes, despite them actually doing 20 years of harm, piling literal millions of debt onto the club's books through their own gross incompetence and megalomania.

If you want to abandon fan ownership because the break even model can't possibly work and we can only put a competitive team on the park if we get bankrolled by a private owner, then you're saying we have no alternative but to pile the debt right back on again exactly the way the Raes did. Maybe we'd have a private owner doing it competently next time, actually investing in infrastructure that improves the club's income long term and not giving huge first team budgets to the likes of Jim McInally to waste, but the likelihood is we'll end up right back where we were three years ago. Even if we managed to escape going down the road of Inverness from that position (which is where we'd have ended up then without MCT), we're not going to get away with a debt free club owning the stadium again.

Totally agree. There are really only two other realistic alternatives to the break-even model, i.e., spending beyond our means and racking up dept with the obvious existential risks that entails, or being bankrolled by a rich benefactor who's willing to personally write-off all debts. In the absence of the latter, the break-even model is by far the lesser of both evils, IMO.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

Dougie obviously wears his heart on his sleeve, which is not in itself a bad thing, but it's hard to believe he would swear at a fan for shouting something as innocuous as 'clear your lines!'. Maybe there were other exchanges between the two that led up to this reaction? If not, that was clearly out of order and the CEO should definitely be having a quiet word with him.

 

[vikingTON]

54 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Dougie obviously wears his heart on his sleeve, which is not in itself a bad thing, but it's hard to believe he would swear at a fan for shouting something as innocuous as 'clear your lines!'. Maybe there were other exchanges between the two that led up to this reaction? If not, that was clearly out of order and the CEO should definitely be having a quiet word with him.

Curious that you've omitted the swearing from an 'innocuous' shout from the sidelines, while raising it as a heinous offence when used by the manager in response. 

As for the CEO (General Manager), the idea that he should be lecturing anyone else on professionalism or how to do their job is laughable. 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

I mentioned it because according to the accounts from those within earshot, Dougie swore at the fan for only shouting 'clear your lines!'. If that was the case, swearing at a fan and paying customer for something as inoffensive as that is clearly unacceptable in any walk of life. But I also questioned if this was perhaps not an isolated exchange between Dougie and the fan in question, in which case it may not be as black and white as that.

I agree with your comments about the CEO/GM or whatever he masquerades as, but that still doesn't mean it's not his responsibility.

[Rossco1874]

4 hours ago, dunning1874 said:

Imrie made an arse of his recruitment in the summer and therefore the whole season, exacerbated by stubbornly clinging to the idea that some of his signings aren't mince, making some of them undroppable when everyone can see the likes of Lyall and Moffat aren't good enough. For me that's not enough to write off all his previous good work, when you have a manager who's gotten you out of a hole before I'm willing to trust he can do it again, keep us up and hopefully learn from his mistakes this season so we're not in the same place in 12 months time, but I can understand being sick of it, particularly when he doubles down on the stubbornness and insists we're playing well and it's all just down to bad luck rather than a glaring lack of quality.

What I don't understand at all is the (already tedious in the space of three years) insistence accompanying every bad run of form that fan ownership is the root of the problem and we need to tear the whole ownership model of the club apart. This didn't happen with every bad run under the Raes, despite them actually doing 20 years of harm, piling literal millions of debt onto the club's books through their own gross incompetence and megalomania.

If you want to abandon fan ownership because the break even model can't possibly work and we can only put a competitive team on the park if we get bankrolled by a private owner, then you're saying we have no alternative but to pile the debt right back on again exactly the way the Raes did. Maybe we'd have a private owner doing it competently next time, actually investing in infrastructure that improves the club's income long term and not giving huge first team budgets to the likes of Jim McInally to waste, but the likelihood is we'll end up right back where we were three years ago. Even if we managed to escape going down the road of Inverness from that position (which is where we'd have ended up then without MCT), we're not going to get away with a debt free club owning the stadium again.

It's very easy & lazy to criticise fan ownership especially by someone who has been skeptical from the start.

What we need to accomodate the fan ownership is more outside investment. Whatever investment that comes in should not reduce MCT contributions below a figure of 55/60% so we are still majority fan owned.

[BishopBrennan]

15 hours ago, LargsTON said:

Who the fuck does Imrie think he is biting back at the fans?  His credit in the bank is long gone, he can get to fuck for all I care now.   As can fan ownership.  I can't recall a worse time to be a Morton fan, including the Scott years.  It just feels like we're withering away.  

What alternative to fan ownership would you suggest? 

This season is going to be, at best, a damp squib. We will struggle to break even and relegation is a possibility. But the idea that this is the 'worst time to be a Morton fan' is risible at best. 

[Toby]

7 minutes ago, BishopBrennan said:

What alternative to fan ownership would you suggest? 

This season is going to be, at best, a damp squib. We will struggle to break even, and relegation is a possibility. But the idea that this is the 'worst time to be a Morton fan' is risible at best. 

It’s not even the worst time to be a Morton fan in this decade.

The period when “Hoppy” and Dossier Dave were running the club was absolutely grim, and the last few weeks of Gus MacPherson’s time in the dugout were toxic.

It’s not much fun, but let’s be honest, things have been much, much worse in very recent memory.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

21 minutes ago, BishopBrennan said:

What alternative to fan ownership would you suggest? 

This season is going to be, at best, a damp squib. We will struggle to break even, and relegation is a possibility. But the idea that this is the 'worst time to be a Morton fan' is risible at best. 

He lost all credibility in his argument when he said it was worse than the Scott years. Since then we've been in administration, dropped down to League 2 and played a few seasons in League 1. And of course there's that season (2002-03?) in League 1 when we spunked away a massive points lead at Christmas to end up with hee-haw. 

 It might be a big grim at the minute, but there were periods in the last 25 years when it was much, much worse.