ICT on the brink

[Guest capitanus]

5 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

For some reason or other geographical isolation doesn't seem to be an issue in Norway, Bodo/Glimt and Tromso being the obvious examples. They're FAR more isolated than Dumfries, Stranraer and Inverness. 

 

1 hour ago, TRVMP said:

My guess is it's something to do with air travel. I wonder if isolated second-division clubs do half as well.

Maybe its down to being a wealthier country too, and the clubs aren't all run by tinpot bawbee merchants like they are in Scotland, where they charge punters through the nose at every turn whilst pleading poverty.

[Toby]

5 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

For some reason or other geographical isolation doesn't seem to be an issue in Norway, Bodo/Glimt and Tromso being the obvious examples. They're FAR more isolated than Dumfries, Stranraer and Inverness. 

Do we really know whether or not geographical isolation is or isn’t an issue in Norway, though? I personally don’t know enough about the Norwegian league beyond the names of a few of the top flight clubs, and how they generally get on in European competition.

Just because Bodo/Glimt and Tromsø aren’t at death’s door, doesn’t mean they don’t face challenges that Vålerenga (from Oslo) don’t. It’s just not in our consciousness.

Newcastle United are one of the richest clubs on the planet, but I’d still argue they struggle due to logistics in a way that say Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham don’t.

Nobody’s using it as an excuse for Inverness’s dreadful mismanagement, but it would be remiss of us not to mention external factors in their favour and against them.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

Bodo/Glimt currently have a 7 point lead at the top of the Eliteserien with 6 games remaining, and have been champions in 3 of the previous 4 seasons. So far from being at death's door they're actually thriving. On the other hand, Vålerenga, who are by far the biggest team in the Oslo region, got relegated last season (although they have already secured promotion back up to the Eliteserien next season). 

Edited October 10, 2024 by Cet Homme Charmant

[Toby]

32 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Bodo/Glimt currently have a 7 point lead at the top of the Eliteserien with 6 games remaining, and have been champions in 3 of the previous 4 seasons. So far from being at death's door they're actually thriving. On the other hand, Vålerenga, who are by far the biggest team in the Oslo region, got relegated last season (although they have already secured promotion back up to the Eliteserien next season). 

That’s not the point I’m making, though (and I did have a look at the top two Norwegian tables when replying to you).

Just because Inverness are a shit-show, doesn’t mean they don’t face challenges that other clubs, like ourselves, don’t. They’ve dealt with these challenges poorly, while Bodo/Glimt and Tromsø have presumably dealt well with them.

Similarly, Plymouth Argyle are sitting in mid-table in the English Championship despite their relative isolation, while comparable clubs from large population bases such as Birmingham City and Charlton Athletic flounder in League One.

About 15 years ago, Morton beat Ross County to the signing of Derek Lyle, despite offering him less money. Lyle didn’t sign on the dotted line at Cappielow because of some long-held ambition to run out in front of the Cowshed.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

I agree that isolation brings challenges, but it can also have benefits as they have less completion from local rivals for support.

Scotland is a bit of an anomaly in that respect, being a wee country with two absolutely massive clubs who 'pinch' supporters all over the country. I've never been to Bodo, but I would suspect that most 'Bodonians' (ed, check) support Bodo/Glimt rather than the Valerenga or Rosenberg, for example. So in Norway, perhaps extreme isolation may actually work in their favour.

Edited October 10, 2024 by Cet Homme Charmant

[Guest capitanus]

2 hours ago, Toby said:

Do we really know whether or not geographical isolation is or isn’t an issue in Norway, though? I personally don’t know enough about the Norwegian league beyond the names of a few of the top flight clubs, and how they generally get on in European competition.

Just because Bodo/Glimt and Tromsø aren’t at death’s door, doesn’t mean they don’t face challenges that Vålerenga (from Oslo) don’t. It’s just not in our consciousness.

Newcastle United are one of the richest clubs on the planet, but I’d still argue they struggle due to logistics in a way that say Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham don’t.

Nobody’s using it as an excuse for Inverness’s dreadful mismanagement, but it would be remiss of us not to mention external factors in their favour and against them.

Your point about Newcastle, I recall when Kevin Keegan was trying to sign Rob Lee who was all set to join Middlesbrough, as he didn't want to be too remote from his family who were all London based.  Keegan made the seemingly absurd point that Newcastle was a lot closer to London than Middlesbrough was, despite Middlesbrough being 40 odd mile south and geographically closer.  The point he made was it having a mainline railway station with regular trains to London, and a major airport having several flights per day to the capital making it much easier for him and his relatives to keep in touch with each other.    

Edited October 10, 2024 by capitanus

[Guest capitanus]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

That’s not the point I’m making, though (and I did have a look at the top two Norwegian tables when replying to you).

Just because Inverness are a shit-show, doesn’t mean they don’t face challenges that other clubs, like ourselves, don’t. They’ve dealt with these challenges poorly, while Bodo/Glimt and Tromsø have presumably dealt well with them.

Similarly, Plymouth Argyle are sitting in mid-table in the English Championship despite their relative isolation, while comparable clubs from large population bases such as Birmingham City and Charlton Athletic flounder in League One.

About 15 years ago, Morton beat Ross County to the signing of Derek Lyle, despite offering him less money. Lyle didn’t sign on the dotted line at Cappielow because of some long-held ambition to run out in front of the Cowshed.

Derek Lyle had external 'business' interests which would have been a factor in his decision making.

[Toby]

32 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

I agree that isolation brings challenges, but it can also have benefits as they have less completion from local rivals for support.

Scotland is a bit of an anomaly in that respect, being a wee country with two absolutely massive clubs who 'pinch' supporters all over the country. I've never been to Bodo, but I would suspect that most 'Bodonians' (ed, check) support Bodo/Glimt rather than the Valerenga or Rosenberg, for example. So in Norway, perhaps extreme isolation may actually work in their favour.

I’d imagine you’re probably correct to an extent about the fans of Norwegian clubs, though similar to my point about the Highland League fans of 30+ years ago, many will support English Premier League clubs alongside their local team, safe in the knowledge that they’re unlikely to ever cross each others’ paths.

The point about the lack of local rivals is a fair one in many cases (take Carlisle, for example) but watching where Ross County are, whose ground is attached to the region’s football academy and can rely on the benevolence of a rich owner, must be extremely galling for the Inverness board. Especially when it dawned on them that not everyone who gives a club money is as generous as the bloke up the road.

25 minutes ago, capitanus said:

Your point about Newcastle, I recall when Kevin Keegan was trying to sign Rob Lee who was all set to join Middlesbrough, as he didn't want to be too remote from his family who were all London based.  Keegan made the point that seemingly absurd point that Newcastle was a lot closer to London than Middlesbrough was, despite Middlesbrough being 60 odd mile south and geographically closer.  The point he made was it having a mainline railway station with regular trains to London, and a major airport having several flights per day to the capital making it much easier for him and his relatives to keep in touch with each other.    

To be fair, I’d rather live in Gaza than Middlesborough.

[Guest capitanus]

4 minutes ago, Toby said:

To be fair, I’d rather live in Gaza than Middlesborough.

I'd rather live in neither place.

[vikingTON]

On 10/10/2024 at 7:43 PM, Cet Homme Charmant said:

I agree that isolation brings challenges, but it can also have benefits as they have less completion from local rivals for support.

Scotland is a bit of an anomaly in that respect, being a wee country with two absolutely massive clubs who 'pinch' supporters all over the country. I've never been to Bodo, but I would suspect that most 'Bodonians' (ed, check) support Bodo/Glimt rather than the Valerenga or Rosenberg, for example. So in Norway, perhaps extreme isolation may actually work in their favour.

In what way is Scotland an anomaly? That's literally the operating model of the Old Firm of Spanish football, while Juventus are as (if not more) popular in the south of Italy than Turin itself. The idea that Holland, Portugal etc. aren't operating under the same (3 club) paradigm is laughable too. 

[Cet Homme Charmant]

9 hours ago, vikingTON said:

In what way is Scotland an anomaly? That's literally the operating model of the Old Firm of Spanish football, while Juventus are as (if not more) popular in the south of Italy than Turin itself. The idea that Holland, Portugal etc. aren't operating under the same (3 club) paradigm is laughable too. 

By anomaly I didn't mean the OF were unique in having supporters throughout the country. Indeed, it's not at all uncommon in some countries for bigger clubs to get supporters from outside their city or region (Home County Man Utd fans is a bit of a cliche but is probably based on some degree of fact). I also agree that absolute duopolies in European leagues are maybe not entirely exclusive to Scotland (though I can't think of any off the top of my head - even in Spain, Atletico won La Liga as recently as season 20-21 and were 2nd in seasons 17-18 and 18-19). I would love to see Aberdeen break that duopoly this season and finish 2nd, but I'd be happy to accept a charity bet with you now that they won't. 

The anomaly I was referring to was the fact the OF duopoly in Scotland is exacerbated because of the size of their size in relation to the overall population. I can't think of any other small country in Europe with a comparable population that have two huge clubs with ~40-50k season ticket holders. 

In that respect, Scotland is an anomaly IMO. 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Cet Homme Charmant

[TRVMP]

I was at the St. Mirren v Brann game back in August and the Norwegian guy I was talking to was from Tromso. Sample size of one, of course. 

In Portugal basically every town has a Casa de Benfica. There are about 200,000 official club members in the country. Benfica are a larger cultural force in Portugal than either Rangers or Celtic are in Scotland. 

[vikingTON]

On 10/12/2024 at 11:15 AM, Cet Homme Charmant said:

The anomaly I was referring to was the fact the OF duopoly in Scotland is exacerbated because of the size of their size in relation to the overall population. I can't think of any other small country in Europe with a comparable population that have two huge clubs with ~40-50k season ticket holders. 

In that respect, Scotland is an anomaly IMO. 

Because no other small country has a comparable level of match-going fans and high attendance records to begin with. Your 'anomaly' is therefore simply the unsurpassed level of football engagement in Scotland across all professional levels, not the existence of a couple of dominant big clubs. 

[Stevie Aitken's Love Child]

That's Inverness applied to the Courts to appoint Administrators. Looks to be the only way for them, their debts and liabilities were just too high.

[TRVMP]

6 hours ago, Stevie Aitken's Love Child said:

That's Inverness applied to the Courts to appoint Administrators. Looks to be the only way for them, their debts and liabilities were just too high.

I've not been keeping up too much but a lot will hinge on how much is directors loans, how much is footballing debt, and how much (if any) are HMRC. But what a state they've got themselves into. 

[AyrshireTon]

Officially in administration.

https://x.com/ICTFC/status/1848763604910375374

[Pedrodelawasp]

Following the release of Ferguson and his coaches, administrators have also let Adam Brooks, Cameron Ferguson, Flynn Duffy and Wallace Duffy go. Jack Newman’s loan from Dundee United also ended.

Wallace Duffy strangely loaned to us from St Johnstone in 2020, but the deal was cancelled for ‘non-footballing reasons’ before he ever kicked a ball.

 

 

[TRVMP]

Dundee United are raging about the Newman situation since he's now unable to play competitive football for another club until January. They're trying to get special dispensation to loan him elsewhere.

[Cet Homme Charmant]

I see Dumbarton went into administration this morning

[Guest capitanus]

On 11/19/2024 at 4:11 PM, Cet Homme Charmant said:

I see Dumbarton went into administration this morning