Mr.Blue Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 hours ago, vikingTON said: Critical to what exactly? We were out of the cup before the advent calendars were open, and should still have plenty to avoid facing a relegation play-off. 1 point per game (i.e. relegation form over a season) would very likely be enough. If our existing squad can't step up to the plate in the absence of key players - once this stupid fixture pile-up is over and we're playing once a week again - then that provides evidence to clear out at least some of them in the summer. Throwing bad money (from where?) after good should not be an option. Could be critical to making the promotion playoffs? 1 There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Mr.Blue said: Could be critical to making the promotion playoffs? That's not a target for the campaign. What happens if we sign the next Ally Roy and finish 8th regardless? The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 17 hours ago, vikingTON said: That's not a target for the campaign. What happens if we sign the next Ally Roy and finish 8th regardless? Maybe not been said out loud but surely it's what we are aiming for 1 There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, Mr.Blue said: Maybe not been said out loud but surely it's what we are aiming for Our aim for the season will be to get 40 points and see what happens from there. Why would promotion play-offs be set as a season aim, when we almost certainly started the season with the 9th largest budget in the division? The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greacen2000 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 34 minutes ago, vikingTON said: Our aim for the season will be to get 40 points and see what happens from there. Why would promotion play-offs be set as a season aim, when we almost certainly started the season with the 9th largest budget in the division? Regardless of where we rank in terms of budget and what our target was at the start of the season, I would expect the club to be pragmatic about what the best move is to make from the circumstances we find ourselves in now (squad and league position wise). The difference in prize money between 5th and 8th is about 90k and between 4th & 8th is the best part of 180k. Any choices the club make at this point ought to be informed on that basis. Sure, we could say “the current squad should have enough to get us over the 40 point mark and keep us up”, but if there’s a chance of us being able to bring in another striker on a short term deal til the end of the season, the cost of that must be weighed up against the potential it has to influence the position we finish in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Greacen2000 said: Regardless of where we rank in terms of budget and what our target was at the start of the season, I would expect the club to be pragmatic about what the best move is to make from the circumstances we find ourselves in now (squad and league position wise). The difference in prize money between 5th and 8th is about 90k and between 4th & 8th is the best part of 180k. Any choices the club make at this point ought to be informed on that basis. Sure, we could say “the current squad should have enough to get us over the 40 point mark and keep us up”, but if there’s a chance of us being able to bring in another striker on a short term deal til the end of the season, the cost of that must be weighed up against the potential it has to influence the position we finish in. There's absolutely no guarantee that signing an extra player would yield any higher league placing - see Ally Roy. This entirely bogus 'speculate to accumulate' line of thought is how a club ends up throwing bad money after good and records a larger loss than the one we can already anticipate. Will MCT be able to issue another cash release to bail us out? Furthermore, why have we signed and paid squad players if we cannot possibly cope with three (maximum four) first team players being out at the same time? We're not throwing 16 year olds on the park here - they are all professional and full-time players who have aspirations of starting in their own right. This is their opportunity to step up and if they can't (over the long term - not last night) then they shouldn't stay at the club. Edited February 26 by vikingTON 1 The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greacen2000 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, vikingTON said: There's absolutely no guarantee that signing an extra player would yield any higher league placing - see Ally Roy. This entirely bogus 'speculate to accumulate' line of thought is how a club ends up throwing bad money after good and records a larger loss than the one we can already anticipate. Will MCT be able to issue another cash release to bail us out? Of course there is no guarantee - I did not claim such a thing (please note my use of the words "if", "chance" and "potential". I am in no way advocating for us spending money we do not have, signing another Ally Roy, or "putting bad money after good" (whatever that means). All I am suggesting is that (if a suitable recruit is available until the end of the season) we should weigh up the cost against the potential benefit & make a decision on that basis. I think it is clear for all to see that (much as they have improved), neither Reynolds or Davies are capable of playing up front and holding the ball up, and this has been the main weakness in our play the last couple of games. If Adeloye isn't going to be back available soon I will have grave concerns about how we will fare between now and the end of the season. Lets do some back of a napkin calculations to flesh out what I mean... Cost of recruiting a striker until the end of the season Basing it on the assumption of a salary of 50K per year pro rata to a 3 month deal, we could potentially bring someone in until the end of the season for as little as £12.5K Potential benefit in terms of final league position Of the 25 games we have played this season, 20 have been with a recognised striker (JET/Stuparevic/Adeloye) and we have amassed 27 points (1.35 per game). On the 5 occasions we have started without a recognised striker, we have earned 4 points (0.8 per game). Of course this is not the only factor in how we have performed in those matches, but it does bear out my earlier observation about us being noticeably weaker when we have nobody in the team capable of holding up the ball and leading the line. On this basis, it is entirely reasonable to speculate that having a recognised striker available could be worth up to an extra 6 points to us between now and the end of the season. 6 points last season would have been the difference between finishing 5th & 9th(£83K), and the season before it would have been the difference between finishing 4th & 7th (almost 150K). Between 9th and 5th, each incremental league place is worth 20-30K more prize money so I would think its pretty self evident that if (big if) there is a possibility of us bringing in a replacement for Stuparevic, it would at least be something worth looking at 1 hour ago, vikingTON said: Furthermore, why have we signed and paid squad players if we cannot possibly cope with three (maximum four) first team players being out at the same time? We're not throwing 16 year olds on the park here - they are all professional and full-time players who have aspirations of starting in their own right. This is their opportunity to step up and if they can't (over the long term - not last night) then they shouldn't stay at the club. you are conflating 2 different issues. Our failure in the summer to build a squad with the sufficient minerals to cope with an injury crisis is not in itself a reason to take no action at this time (if we have the ability to do so) Edited February 26 by Greacen2000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 13 hours ago, Greacen2000 said: Of course there is no guarantee - I did not claim such a thing (please note my use of the words "if", "chance" and "potential". I am in no way advocating for us spending money we do not have, signing another Ally Roy, or "putting bad money after good" (whatever that means). All I am suggesting is that (if a suitable recruit is available until the end of the season) we should weigh up the cost against the potential benefit & make a decision on that basis. you are conflating 2 different issues. Our failure in the summer to build a squad with the sufficient minerals to cope with an injury crisis is not in itself a reason to take no action at this time (if we have the ability to do so) 1) Yes you are because there is patently no money in the budget to sign anyone, Ally Roy or not, without dragging the season's costs yet further into the red. Your exercise in opportunity cost is therefore relevant because that's how you decide how best to spend money that you actually have in the budget. Throwing extra money from a mystery resource at the first team with the hope of getting better prize money is speculation, nothing more. 2) Our first team squad has more than enough options available now. In the attacking third we have Davies, Reynolds, Garrity, Moffat and McGinn, possibly Crawford too. I may even be forgetting some of our rotating cast. If those players cannot be used in an effective way between them then the vast majority shouldn't be at the club - though it wasn't three weeks ago that we were discussing new contracts pretty much all round. We have a squad here and the onus should be on them to step up. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greacen2000 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, vikingTON said: 1) Yes you are because there is patently no money in the budget to sign anyone, Ally Roy or not, without dragging the season's costs yet further into the red. Your exercise in opportunity cost is therefore relevant because that's how you decide how best to spend money that you actually have in the budget. Throwing extra money from a mystery resource at the first team with the hope of getting better prize money is speculation, nothing more. Once again you seem to have missed/ignored my use of words like "if". I have no details on how much money is or is not available to spend - do you? I don't know how much we were spending on Stuparevic, and whether or not we are commited to paying this for the rest of the season or if it's now available to spend elsewhere after his return to Motherwell - do you? If not then it is pretty pointless to go on about "dragging us further into the red" or "spending money that we don't have in the budget". I am speaking in hypotheticals here but you are trying to frame it as if I am saying we NEED to spend this money even if we don't have it. Let me make this as simple as possible - IF there is money available to put something like 10-15k into signing a striker until the end of the season AND a suitable striker is available, THEN we should explore the possibility(especially if Adeloye is going to be out long term). IF no such money is available then the above is a moot point - if we don't have it then we can't spend it. 3 minutes ago, vikingTON said: 2) Our first team squad has more than enough options available now. In the attacking third we have Davies, Reynolds, Garrity, Moffat and McGinn, possibly Crawford too. I may even be forgetting some of our rotating cast. If those players cannot be used in an effective way between them then the vast majority shouldn't be at the club - though it wasn't three weeks ago that we were discussing new contracts pretty much all round. We have a squad here and the onus should be on them to step up. I am not sure what team you have been watching, but (good players as they may be) none of the names you mention are even remotely capable of holding up the ball and leading the line. Every single time I have seen Reynolds or Davies up front, they have led to us losing possession and being put on the back foot countless times due to them not being suitable for the role (no fault of their own). Garrity, Crawford, Moffat & Mcginn are no more suited to playing this position, so unless Imrie is going to radically alter how we play (like trying convert us to playing some sort of Levein style 4-6-0 or something) then we are going to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The club just tapped us for an extra 15k on top of the monthly 11k contribution. Even if that was entirely down to cash flow, there's no indication it's ever going to be paid back (not that I'm saying it should.) It seems pretty obvious that we just don't have any cash lying around if MCT is being asked for extra contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Greacen2000 said: I am not sure what team you have been watching, but (good players as they may be) none of the names you mention are even remotely capable of holding up the ball and leading the line. Every single time I have seen Reynolds or Davies up front, they have led to us losing possession and being put on the back foot countless times due to them not being suitable for the role (no fault of their own). Garrity, Crawford, Moffat & Mcginn are no more suited to playing this position, so unless Imrie is going to radically alter how we play (like trying convert us to playing some sort of Levein style 4-6-0 or something) then we are going to struggle. Then the onus is on the manager to find a slightly different style of play that uses their 'talents'. That's why Imrie deliberately built a larger squad this season, they've all been kept at the club after the January transfer window - now it's time to use them. Honestly, Adeloye plays one fucking game for us and it's suddenly the sky falling down that he isn't available for the next few. That's just football. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greacen2000 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Nice to see Cameron Keay get a hat trick for Scotland schoolboys in a 5-2 victory against England at Cappielow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) I think it was 6-2 and he got 4? But he'll still not get a sniff for us. Not even time on the bench. Edited February 28 by dazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HamCam Posted February 28 Popular Post Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, dazza said: I think it was 6-2 and he got 4? But he'll still not get a sniff for us. Not even time on the bench. The gap between youth football and the professional game is massive. This was covered at the AGM last night. It is down to the manager to decide who gets to move up and if that includes being on the bench. The Board are very keen to see progression but it was highlighted that when the youth players trained with the first team squad they did not always cover themselves in glory. With the recent switch to the manager taking responsibility for the apprentices the hope is youth will get a chance but only if it is merited. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greacen2000 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, dazza said: I think it was 6-2 and he got 4? But he'll still not get a sniff for us. Not even time on the bench. Only place I could find to keep up with the score was X and the last update at the time I posted was 5-2 but yeah I can see that now. Great to see and hopefully he can kick on and make a few appearances for us soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Bewilderedbeast Posted March 21 Popular Post Share Posted March 21 Didn't know where else to post this. U18's beat St Johnstone 7-1 in the CAS semi final tonight. 1st half hat-trick for Keay, hope he was taken off early and available for some part tomorrow. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 With the season now done and a 5th or 6th place finish almost certain, bar losing every remaining game and falling into 7th or 8th, time to have an eye on next season with team selections for the last five games. Start Keay every week and see if he sinks or swims. If he's ready to be part of a Championship squad then great, if not then a League 1 or 2 loan next season. Corr's under contract, get him in the team so he has a few more games under his belt. May as well start Garrity to see if he can get over his good from the bench/bad in the starting XI issues as well. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 47 minutes ago, dunning1874 said: With the season now done and a 5th or 6th place finish almost certain, bar losing every remaining game and falling into 7th or 8th, time to have an eye on next season with team selections for the last five games. Start Keay every week and see if he sinks or swims. If he's ready to be part of a Championship squad then great, if not then a League 1 or 2 loan next season. Corr's under contract, get him in the team so he has a few more games under his belt. May as well start Garrity to see if he can get over his good from the bench/bad in the starting XI issues as well. I wonder if there's anyone else that could be given some experience in and around the first team for the run in. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands of Cowan Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 29 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said: I wonder if there's anyone else that could be given some experience in and around the first team for the run in. Niall McGinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Aitken's Love Child Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 53 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said: I wonder if there's anyone else that could be given some experience in and around the first team for the run in. Well 3 of the apprentices started in that Scotland schoolboys game at Cappielow, so start from there surely? Not sure what positions Niall Graham or Fraser Rodger play, but at least lets see them on the bench to get them accustomed to the first team environment. Been a bit of a bugbear of mine that. Even if you're not intending on playing them, get them used to what match-day prep looks like and have them on the bench, in particular when we've had 3 or 4 players on the bench at times this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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