Mr.Blue Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 4 hours ago, vikingTON said: I don't see the point in getting hung up about making the play-offs. It wasn't our aim for the season and it wasn't what we had a budget to expect to achieve. The bigger picture is that the most recent bout of gurning about terrible form based on cherry-picked sample of games has turned out to be nonsense again. We're just as capable of holding our own against any team in the division. Our aim should simply be to finish our season on a high with good performances that establish a promising base for next season's campaign. Fully agree with this. Overall this has been a really successful season for us and everyone should keep this in mind. We were favourite for relegated at the start of the season and have comfortably stayed in this league. I've said before that we need to think long term and it'll be an exciting pre season and season 23/24 with Dougie at the helm, the majority of the squad signed up and resources there to add to and enhance the squad. This is the best shape we've been in for quite some time going into a pre season. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SassenachTon Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said: For their Thurs who gave away the foul? I'm guessing that was a typo and you meant 'third' mate. I believe it was Alexander King - hence Dougie mentioning him by name in the interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EanieMeany Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Given the position we were in towards the end of last year, I think the club board would be very entitled to feel aggrieved about releasing funds to bring in 5 new, experienced players in the second half of the season only to be told "ach, the playoffs don't matter". We'd almost have certainly have finished around 6th or 7th without bothering with that expenditure given how far detached the bottom 3 are. This is not a strong league and not making the playoffs will be a poor outcome, a top 4 spot was there for the taking and the run of form up to November demonstrated what we could be capable of with limited resources (much like the opening 6/7 games in particular of Dougie's tenure), which in itself blows away any talk of "but our budget". To add significant reinforcements from January on only to be rarely winning games to the point of amassing the joint second lowest points total (along with Hamilton) in that period simply isn't good form and can't just be put down to missed chances. Only Cove have been worse over a 4 month spell. To keep putting it down to missing chances is, frankly, a bit cop-out and has echoes of the McInally "can't fault my lads for effort" patter. If nothing else, it totally ignores the fact that we're gifting so many goals (again, since the turn of the year, we've conceded the joint second most along with Hamilton in that period. 3 and a half months (4, including a winless December) is not a short spell, it's half a season, and the first few weeks weren't great either. Dougie has shown what he's capable of across a few spells since his arrival, but the onus is on him to get us back to the levels we've seen before, as a starting point. It's not much use insisting on high standards and wanting to win every game etc when things are going well, that has to apply when they aren't too and they also have to apply to the manager himself rather than just some players. A few games here and there aside, the last few months haven't been good enough and it's up to Dougie to show he can learn from it and take us forward. All the evidence points to him being more than capable of that, for sure, but it's up to him to prove he is. AWMSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, SassenachTon said: I'm guessing that was a typo and you meant 'third' mate. I believe it was Alexander King - hence Dougie mentioning him by name in the interview. Yeah sorry. Bloody phone. Thanks There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, DreamOakTree said: That’s a fair enough assessment of where we are, as the majority of us weren’t expecting to be in the mix for the play-offs, or even the title at one point. I think a lot of us got caught up in it though when we realised we had a chance, and the likes of QP, Dundee, Ayr, Partick and ICT aren’t really that far superior to us as we might’ve thought. Did you not get a bit caught up in the prospect of a chance at the play-offs? No because so long as we're not a clown car outfit, we'll always have 'a chance at the play-offs'. The only difference this season is that the title race was wide open as well, but our lack of participation in that was decided by our horrendous defeat to Ayr and then not getting all three points at Ochilview, weeks ago. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 The prize money in the Championship is zctially quite good now - as much as the playoffs themselves, that's my main hangup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madton Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 1 hour ago, EanieMeany said: Given the position we were in towards the end of last year, I think the club board would be very entitled to feel aggrieved about releasing funds to bring in 5 new, experienced players in the second half of the season only to be told "ach, the playoffs don't matter". We'd almost have certainly have finished around 6th or 7th without bothering with that expenditure given how far detached the bottom 3 are. This is not a strong league and not making the playoffs will be a poor outcome, a top 4 spot was there for the taking and the run of form up to November demonstrated what we could be capable of with limited resources (much like the opening 6/7 games in particular of Dougie's tenure), which in itself blows away any talk of "but our budget". To add significant reinforcements from January on only to be rarely winning games to the point of amassing the joint second lowest points total (along with Hamilton) in that period simply isn't good form and can't just be put down to missed chances. Only Cove have been worse over a 4 month spell. To keep putting it down to missing chances is, frankly, a bit cop-out and has echoes of the McInally "can't fault my lads for effort" patter. If nothing else, it totally ignores the fact that we're gifting so many goals (again, since the turn of the year, we've conceded the joint second most along with Hamilton in that period. 3 and a half months (4, including a winless December) is not a short spell, it's half a season, and the first few weeks weren't great either. Dougie has shown what he's capable of across a few spells since his arrival, but the onus is on him to get us back to the levels we've seen before, as a starting point. It's not much use insisting on high standards and wanting to win every game etc when things are going well, that has to apply when they aren't too and they also have to apply to the manager himself rather than just some players. A few games here and there aside, the last few months haven't been good enough and it's up to Dougie to show he can learn from it and take us forward. All the evidence points to him being more than capable of that, for sure, but it's up to him to prove he is. Agree with this. Whilst it's clear the budget was horrendous mid July, playing Easdale up front in the cup games is a fine example of the challenges we faced, Dougie has been allowed to bring in 8 experienced players since mid August as well as shift some dead wood and hand out some contract extensions. I'd imagine our budget is better than Cove/Arbroath/Hamilton, similar to Ayr/Raith and not to far off Inverness whilst being comfortably behind Partick, QP and Dundee. Absolutely give Dougie some slack for the challenge he faced trying to build a squad but quite simply he should be doing a lot better with the resources he now has at his disposal. 4 wins in 17 is unacceptable and he will know that. We managed 8 wins from our first 16 league games. No doubt survival was the target in July. Come the end of Jan, I've no doubt that changed to top 4 internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EanieMeany Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 1 hour ago, SassenachTon said: I'm guessing that was a typo and you meant 'third' mate. I believe it was Alexander King - hence Dougie mentioning him by name in the interview. It’s pretty absurd to be singling out King like that tbh. Blaming a young boy for losing goals when the same thing is happening all the time is pretty shoddy, not least when other players are often far more directly culpable for things yet never seem to be criticised. If we keep just trying to find individual moments to blame, especially with things like this, we’re not going to get better. AWMSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, EanieMeany said: It’s pretty absurd to be singling out King like that tbh. Blaming a young boy for losing goals when the same thing is happening all the time is pretty shoddy, not least when other players are often far more directly culpable for things yet never seem to be criticised. If we keep just trying to find individual moments to blame, especially with things like this, we’re not going to get better. Don't really see the issue with it. Called him a good young player and highlights a mistake so it's something King will need to get used to if he wants a decent career. Actually felt a bit comforted with the interview. Imrie talks about what's being done to avoid these types of goals and that there's analysis and discussions of them. Showing a player down the line rather than giving away free kicks in dangerous positions is a fairly basic instruction that the players should be able to follow. While it's frustrating they aren't doing it the players need to take responsibility for not following instructions. That said, there will be a point where you can't just keep saying that but it's not this season. I'm pretty confident we'll improve again next season. Despite not picking up as many points as we'd like, it's only been 3 losses in 13 and performances have been mostly pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Madton said: Agree with this. Whilst it's clear the budget was horrendous mid July, playing Easdale up front in the cup games is a fine example of the challenges we faced, Dougie has been allowed to bring in 8 experienced players since mid August as well as shift some dead wood and hand out some contract extensions. A lot of convenient glossing over of facts there. 1) The league campaign started in August and that dung squad was what we started with. That we added players in September or January was not some luxury afforded to the manager by a patient board - it was necessary remedial work to stop the wheels falling off. Meanwhile those games played did count against us. Take the draw at Hamilton on the opening day - while other clubs (such as Ayr) wiped the floor with them in the first half of the campaign, our team could not do so. Or the home defeat to a dismal Arbroath team in September, with this lineup: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62859924 While we did overperformed overall in the first half of the season, there were significant opportunities missed because of the weaknesses in our squad. That's why a team like Ayr (as well as their rent-a-ringer centre forward) have consistently held a gap over us all season. [quote] I'd imagine our budget is better than Cove/Arbroath/Hamilton, similar to Ayr/Raith and not to far off Inverness whilst being comfortably behind Partick, QP and Dundee. [/quote] So the budget assembled even by by the end of the season is still beneath at least four other teams in the division - was probably 9th or 10th when the first ball was kicked and the core of our squad built - and yet you're gurning about not finishing in the top 4 being a disappointment. This is a complete failure of perspective IMHO. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted April 16, 2023 Author Share Posted April 16, 2023 Dean and Chris discuss the midweek win over Hamilton and yesterday's draw with Dundee. Dean is also joined by Chris from the Morton in the Community Men's Walking Football squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madton Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 26 minutes ago, vikingTON said: A lot of convenient glossing over of facts there. 1) The league campaign started in August and that dung squad was what we started with. That we added players in September or January was not some luxury afforded to the manager by a patient board - it was necessary remedial work to stop the wheels falling off. Meanwhile those games played did count against us. Take the draw at Hamilton on the opening day - while other clubs (such as Ayr) wiped the floor with them in the first half of the campaign, our team could not do so. Or the home defeat to a dismal Arbroath team in September, with this lineup: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62859924 While we did overperformed overall in the first half of the season, there were significant opportunities missed because of the weaknesses in our squad. That's why a team like Ayr (as well as their rent-a-ringer centre forward) have consistently held a gap over us all season. [quote] I'd imagine our budget is better than Cove/Arbroath/Hamilton, similar to Ayr/Raith and not to far off Inverness whilst being comfortably behind Partick, QP and Dundee. [/quote] So the budget assembled even by by the end of the season is still beneath at least four other teams in the division - was probably 9th or 10th when the first ball was kicked and the core of our squad built - and yet you're gurning about not finishing in the top 4 being a disappointment. This is a complete failure of perspective IMHO. Are you seriously suggesting the board, players and manager have had zero aspirations of a top 4 finish after being in and around them for much of the season and no one within Cappielow will be disappointed if we fail to get there as the target was survival? I never said I'd be disappointed, didnt even use that word, I said I believe the club collectively will have changed the target from July and that target will have been top 4 IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, Madton said: Are you seriously suggesting the board, players and manager have had zero aspirations of a top 4 finish after being in and around them for much of the season and no one within Cappielow will be disappointed if we fail to get there as the target was survival? I never said I'd be disappointed, didnt even use that word, I said I believe the club collectively will have changed the target from July and that target will have been top 4 IMO. Aspirations and a target are two completely different categories. There's no evidence at all for your claim that the target set for a successful season has been changed. Which it shouldn't have done, because we're not in an old Argentinian league setup where you get prizes halfway through and then start over again. The straightforward reality that people simply cannot accept here is that two clubs who have had far more resources than us all season long (Partick and Inverness) have reverted to their expected level of performance in the past two months. That's unfortunate for us but is just how a 36 game league campaign works. It is not the responsibility of the Morton manager to direct Cove Rangers' and Raith's results every week as well. The only rational way of judging success in a league format is by a relative comparison of resources to the final ranking. Trying to disregard those facts with 'aye but Dalrada', cherry-picked bluster is not convincing. Most other fanbases would consider it demented that we're even having this debate at all. The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Some pretty scathing comments from Imrie in the Telegraph today, suggesting certain individuals aren't good enough to play at this level & indicating they will be dropped going forward. Blues got beat at the back post for their 2nd goal (no idea why he was marking a boy a good bit taller than him) and King obviously gave away the free kick for that goal, as well as making an arse of the clearance in the run up to their 3rd. Will that be the last time we see the pair of them this season? I'd be surprised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 King's a talented 18 year old who does silly things. Ideally he'd be out on loan playing every week and learning more about that side of the game. It's probably really frustrating for Imrie when he's telling him not to do things like that - more frustrating than errors from not being good enough because he's choosing to make a challenge like that when he'll have been told not to (but it very much feel like an inexperience thing which game time very much helps with). Blues and Grimshaw both lose back post challenges. The third goal is a bit of a mess. I'm honestly not sure if the ball should be dropping in our six yard box that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EanieMeany Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, Scott said: Some pretty scathing comments from Imrie in the Telegraph today, suggesting certain individuals aren't good enough to play at this level & indicating they will be dropped going forward. Blues got beat at the back post for their 2nd goal (no idea why he was marking a boy a good bit taller than him) and King obviously gave away the free kick for that goal, as well as making an arse of the clearance in the run up to their 3rd. Will that be the last time we see the pair of them this season? I'd be surprised! Oh, I’m sure he’ll have no problem making an example of a young boy, that’s a lot easier than accepting and addressing the fact that your team can’t defend. There was a whole stream of crossed allowed to come into the box far too easily that were very unconvincingly dealt with, trying to make out it’s just a matter of not giving away free kicks and about a young boy who’s keen to impress in his limited time causing damage is just nonsense and just isn’t a good look. Given how many times similar has happened with Blues and that it took a medical incident to stop him being on the pitch, I’m sure that will just be ignored. I also doubt we’ll see young Green in goal, come to think of it. AWMSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 My recollection from the recent AGM was at the start of the season staying in the Championship was the goal however given where we were in the league in January together with the money for new signings the ambition if not expectation was play-offs. As for Imrie calling out of individuals we have to back him as manager. While I am a little uncomfortable with the younger members of the squad being singled out Imrie is in a better place than us fans to identify how best to get the right reaction from players. King has gone from hero to zero in a week and Imrie has highlighted he does not trust the lad to follow instructions possibly explaining the lack of recent game-time. Personally, I feel there are other more established squad members who are equally culpable of losing concentration, not tracking their man, giving away unnecessary fouls... all evident against Dundee. The one positive I take from this ongoing episode is Imrie knows where the fault lies and is determined/willing to act to address it going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOakTree Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 I’m not sure those of you are quite happy with our improvement and not too bothered if we miss the play-offs, have factored in the fact that it may be more difficult to challenge next season, with Dunfermline, Likely Falkirk, Kilmarnock/or Ross County replacing the likes of Hamilton, Cove and Dundee. Looking at the descriptions of some of our defensive mistakes though, it’s a throwback to my concerns when Ramsbottom was in goal, in that defenders tend to panick when they can’t trust their goalkeeper, even the likes of Grimshaw from what I’m reading on here. As an ex defender myself I totally relate to that. If you have a solid and reliable keeper behind you then you’re more likely to be solid and reliable yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, DreamOakTree said: I’m not sure those of you are quite happy with our improvement and not too bothered if we miss the play-offs, have factored in the fact that it may be more difficult to challenge next season, with Dunfermline, Likely Falkirk, Kilmarnock/or Ross County replacing the likes of Hamilton, Cove and Dundee. Looking at the descriptions of some of our defensive mistakes though, it’s a throwback to my concerns when Ramsbottom was in goal, in that defenders tend to panick when they can’t trust their goalkeeper, even the likes of Grimshaw from what I’m reading on here. As an ex defender myself I totally relate to that. If you have a solid and reliable keeper behind you then you’re more likely to be solid and reliable yourself! I'm fairly confident that anyone who has the common sense to look onto next season has factored in who may or may not be in the league. As for comparing Ramsbottom to Schwake? Shut the fuck up. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOakTree Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said: As for comparing Ramsbottom to Schwake? Shut the fuck up. I’m certainly not comparing them. I quite like Schwake but my point was if you don’t fully trust your keeper to command his area then it adversely affects your game. I take it if you played football at any level then it wasn’t in defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.