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Match Preview/Thread - Arbroath vs Morton (17th March)


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21 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

He also made a great save at the end.

Not to downplay it as such, but the ability to make good saves now and again doesn’t in itself make you a good goalkeeper: you can find someone who can do that anywhere. Any time a wee team comes up against a bigger one in a cup, you’ll almost invariably see their keeper make a load of brilliant saves but it doesn’t mean they’re a superstar, does it? Look at Nico Caraux at Parkhead.

What really determines the competency/quality of a goalkeeper is first and foremost their ability to do the basic things right all the time and to not create goals that wouldn’t otherwise have been goals without their actions: not, basically, not throwing the ball into the net, for example, or whatever the hell it was that happened on Friday. Making some saves doesn’t at all compensate for that. To loosely paraphrase Alfredo di Stefano, a keeper doesn’t have to stop every shot that goes on target, they need to not let in the ones that aren’t. 

Brian Schwake has demonstrated that he can’t be relied on to perform the basics every time or to not create goals for opponents. Yes, every keeper makes mistakes, but the measure of a decent one is that they’re not doing it regularly and that the odd time they do make one, it’s genuinely a bit of a surprise and not out of character. You can’t reasonably say that’s true of Schwake, and his general standard isn’t especially great either. Decent, maybe, but not by any means great.

Schwake has mostly been alright, but as SpoonTon has said, the quality of the defence has been the most significant factor in our defensive record. If the backline wasn’t (generally) as strong as it has been and gave up more shots and opportunities than it does, Schwake would be a lot more exposed and would almost certainly be found wanting to a much bigger degree than he is. Once again, too: I couldn’t really care less about his potential or what he could be. He’s not our player and we won’t gain from it. 

Comparisons to outfielders missing chances don’t really stand up either, although that doesn’t necessarily give the culprits a free pass. Players miss chances all the time, but the likelihood of that happening are massively increased if you insist on putting incompetent footballers like Cameron Blues on the pitch (the “best finisher at the club” patter was a piece of nonsense to start with), or indeed letting a recent addition who hasn’t managed a competent kick of a ball towards the opposition goal in any of his appearances so far take a penalty instead of your two strikers or even Robbie Crawford. There’s something really quite off about that latter decision, in all honesty.

Both of those players should be dropped immediately (or long ago in the case of Blues), but the misses on Friday are really just the tips of the iceberg: you’re not going to drop a player who’s been performing very well just for missing a couple of chances alone. Well, unless they’re called Lewis McGrattan, it would appear.

It’s absolutely right to question the clear disparity in how certain players are treated compared to others, but that doesn’t mean Dougie was wrong to make specific mention of Schwake when it was utterly impossible not to do so. If the player is unable to deal with that, he’s in the wrong position.

AWMSC

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A lot of stuff has been written since Friday night about who is good enough, who's not, why the manager is not picking this player over this one and why is he sticking with the same ones who are not performing.

Fridays game was a masterclass from the manager IMO. Dougie got it completely right, apart from 1 moment when the keeper royally bust  the baw. At no time in the game did we ever look under pressure. Sure, we dropped back in the 2nd half and gave Arbroath more space, but they were doing nothing with it. We gifted them a goal and then had a few chances to kill them game at 1-1. So no doom and gloom from me, but I'm really disappointed we gave away 2 points. 

The crux of the matter here is, the keeper has completely lost all confidence and so has the manager and the players in front of him. Unfortunately we don't have an alternative, so we need to stick with what we have. It's unfortunate as IMO he had a decent first half of the season. Going over and over the same old thing time and again, questioning if he is good enough or not, is just a waste of energy. Dougies job is to get the best from all his player while they are contracted to the club. Whether he bacomes a great keeper in the future is no concern of mine at this time.

Chances will come and go every game. No player wants to miss, but when he does the fan wrath follows. IMO it's unfair to single a player out and label or name call the guys bacause of it. Gaston made several great saves, all of which were on target. If it was not for Gaston we would have won by 3 or 4. But there's your difference between both goalies, Gaston who has had years in the league and works with Rab Douglas day in and day out. 

After the whistle, Dougie had a few words with fans, which I don't understand. I cannot see why the fans would be giving Dougie hassle for a game we controlled 100% and should have won, but sh*t* happens and we need to deal with it. If the performance was poor I could understand the fans being upset, but surely we all have to agree the team played well.

As for Dougie's after match interview, there is nothing that could have saved the keeper from criticism. Everyone knows the keeper blew it, so what's wrong with him calling it as we all saw it.

A few weeks ago we were all thinking the league is a possibility. Now were hoping for 4th and a play off spot, which is still very much a real possibility. It's not over, but we all need to keep everything in perspective, considering, what has been achieved in such a short space of time. 

 

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12 hours ago, EanieMeany said:

Not to downplay it as such, but the ability to make good saves now and again doesn’t in itself make you a good goalkeeper: you can find someone who can do that anywhere. Any time a wee team comes up against a bigger one in a cup, you’ll almost invariably see their keeper make a load of brilliant saves but it doesn’t mean they’re a superstar, does it? Look at Nico Caraux at Parkhead.

What really determines the competency/quality of a goalkeeper is first and foremost their ability to do the basic things right all the time and to not create goals that wouldn’t otherwise have been goals without their actions: not, basically, not throwing the ball into the net, for example, or whatever the hell it was that happened on Friday. Making some saves doesn’t at all compensate for that. To loosely paraphrase Alfredo di Stefano, a keeper doesn’t have to stop every shot that goes on target, they need to not let in the ones that aren’t. 

Brian Schwake has demonstrated that he can’t be relied on to perform the basics every time or to not create goals for opponents. Yes, every keeper makes mistakes, but the measure of a decent one is that they’re not doing it regularly and that the odd time they do make one, it’s genuinely a bit of a surprise and not out of character. You can’t reasonably say that’s true of Schwake, and his general standard isn’t especially great either. Decent, maybe, but not by any means great.

Schwake has mostly been alright, but as SpoonTon has said, the quality of the defence has been the most significant factor in our defensive record. If the backline wasn’t (generally) as strong as it has been and gave up more shots and opportunities than it does, Schwake would be a lot more exposed and would almost certainly be found wanting to a much bigger degree than he is. Once again, too: I couldn’t really care less about his potential or what he could be. He’s not our player and we won’t gain from it. 

Comparisons to outfielders missing chances don’t really stand up either, although that doesn’t necessarily give the culprits a free pass. Players miss chances all the time, but the likelihood of that happening are massively increased if you insist on putting incompetent footballers like Cameron Blues on the pitch (the “best finisher at the club” patter was a piece of nonsense to start with), or indeed letting a recent addition who hasn’t managed a competent kick of a ball towards the opposition goal in any of his appearances so far take a penalty instead of your two strikers or even Robbie Crawford. There’s something really quite off about that latter decision, in all honesty.

Both of those players should be dropped immediately (or long ago in the case of Blues), but the misses on Friday are really just the tips of the iceberg: you’re not going to drop a player who’s been performing very well just for missing a couple of chances alone. Well, unless they’re called Lewis McGrattan, it would appear.

It’s absolutely right to question the clear disparity in how certain players are treated compared to others, but that doesn’t mean Dougie was wrong to make specific mention of Schwake when it was utterly impossible not to do so. If the player is unable to deal with that, he’s in the wrong position.

In contrast making the odd mistake now and again doesn’t in itself make you a bad goalkeeper which over the whole season that's what Schwake has done.  

The 'quality of the defence ' statement is also one that can be looked at both ways. Yes the defence has generated been great this season however some of the goals we have conceded have also been defended poorly not just by the back 4 but all over the pitch. Take the 3 goals against Ayr as an example. Each one was conceded because of a mistake made an outfield player leaving schwake with little chance with any of them. I don't remember there being an over reaction like we have seen for schwakes mistake.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The boy has made a mistake and as a keeper a mistake tends to result in a goal. Time to get over it and move on.

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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3 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The boy has made a mistake and as a keeper a mistake tends to result in a goal. Time to get over it and move on.

And the thing is, no one will know more than him he's made a mistake.

I wasn't intentional, yes it was a big part of losing two points, but so was the penalty miss, the missed rebound attempt, and sitters missed throughout the game.

It's past and nothing anyone can do about it now other than try to do better in the future as a team and on a personal level.

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3 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

In contrast making the odd mistake now and again doesn’t in itself make you a bad goalkeeper which over the whole season that's what Schwake has done.  

The 'quality of the defence ' statement is also one that can be looked at both ways. Yes the defence has generated been great this season however some of the goals we have conceded have also been defended poorly not just by the back 4 but all over the pitch. Take the 3 goals against Ayr as an example. Each one was conceded because of a mistake made an outfield player leaving schwake with little chance with any of them. I don't remember there being an over reaction like we have seen for schwakes mistake.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The boy has made a mistake and as a keeper a mistake tends to result in a goal. Time to get over it and move on.

I thought Schwake was poor at two of the Ayr goals. His anticipation and reaction speed is way off at the first goal - he steps the wrong way after the touch and puts himself out of position for the save. I mean, he's a young goalkeeper here to learn to learn from situations like that. The Ayr player is very likely to get a touch on the ball, and that touch is likely to take the ball to the near post. He'll learn from moments like that, and, if anything, it's his speed of thought that's holding him back a bit at the moment. I'll be honest, I don't know how goalkeepers do it but that split second judgement is crucial in adjusting to higher levels of football. The third goal is a debatable one. The defending is poor, and sometimes you've got to leave that wee gap at the front post to cover the rest, but I think he's got to cover that one slightly better (great finish though it was). These are not out of place pieces of goalkeeping at this level, though. 

I don't want to overstate my opinion of Schwake. I think he's a young goalkeeper who has some good qualities. He made two big mistakes on Friday night, without having a busy game, and I don't think he has been on his best form in recent weeks, but we have had much worse. To be clear, I said what I said on Friday night on the understanding that we could have re-signed Hamilton with a bit more patience. If that's not true then it's not such a big mistake, but I don't think he has been commanding enough and I think his reading of the game has let him down at times. Absolutely to be expected of a young goalkeeper, and the disappointment is probably that the errors have crept in rather than seeing the kind of improvement that was hoped, but I don't think the risk on a goalkeeper untested at this level has been great for us so far. Not awful, not undermining of our goals in the context of the squad we have, but I don't think we'd be in anything like this position if our whole squad was at his level. 

I very much hope things click for him in the final few games of the season and we see some real progress in his game. I'd be delighted for him to have a storming end to the season and make my misgivings look like an overreaction to certain aspects of his game and the season. 

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16 hours ago, WhowouldbeaMortonfan said:

After the whistle, Dougie had a few words with fans, which I don't understand. I cannot see why the fans would be giving Dougie hassle for a game we controlled 100% and should have won, but sh*t* happens and we need to deal with it. 

I think the hassle was due to appointing A.Crawford to take free kicks and the penalty. It certainly wasn’t for our performance which our best since the Dundee match. Obviously it wasn’t due to Schwake making that mistake. Some fans have been unhappy at underperforming players being preferred to players who’ve contributed a lot to our competitiveness this season. This maybe came to a head on Friday due to two of those players fluffing several chances, and Miller being brought on ahead of McGrattan all looking like clear evidence the fans’ concerns were well founded. I’m not sure they deserve a hard time for expressing those concerns having travelled to Arbroath on a Friday night.

Dougie has done a fantastic job in turning this club around, and he’s certainly not unique in splitting the fans over player preferences, or in using the offer of playing time to persuade players to sign for the club. Both are quite common managerial traits throughout football and have been for many years. When it works, with the likes of Grimshaw and Oakley then it looks like a stroke of genius. When it doesn’t work the fans don’t tend to sympathise with the manager who keeps persevering with those players in favour of those who’ve been serving us well every time they’re called upon. 

If we keep playing as we did on Friday though I still believe we’ll make the play-offs.

 

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4 hours ago, DreamOakTree said:

I think the hassle was due to appointing A.Crawford to take free kicks and the penalty. It certainly wasn’t for our performance which our best since the Dundee match. Obviously it wasn’t due to Schwake making that mistake. Some fans have been unhappy at underperforming players being preferred to players who’ve contributed a lot to our competitiveness this season. This maybe came to a head on Friday due to two of those players fluffing several chances, and Miller being brought on ahead of McGrattan all looking like clear evidence the fans’ concerns were well founded. I’m not sure they deserve a hard time for expressing those concerns having travelled to Arbroath on a Friday night.

Dougie has done a fantastic job in turning this club around, and he’s certainly not unique in splitting the fans over player preferences, or in using the offer of playing time to persuade players to sign for the club. Both are quite common managerial traits throughout football and have been for many years. When it works, with the likes of Grimshaw and Oakley then it looks like a stroke of genius. When it doesn’t work the fans don’t tend to sympathise with the manager who keeps persevering with those players in favour of those who’ve been serving us well every time they’re called upon. 

If we keep playing as we did on Friday though I still believe we’ll make the play-offs.

 

I seem to recall Grimshaw being given pelters for being not up to speed in the first few games that he played, so quite why we're jumping straight to the conclusion about more recent additions is questionable. If Morton fans cannot take a look at the overall trajectory of the first team over the past 15 months, trust the manager to get most decisions right and therefore not fling their toys around about an away draw at Championship level then we'll be short of one excellent manager very shortly. That's the reality of the situation. 

That doesn't mean no criticism, ever, but there's a time and a place to do it that isn't completely foolish and self-defeating. Friday night journey or not, people should be able to reflect in the cold light of day on their response - and no burning sense of injustice for McGrattan or any other player is worth undermining the foundations being built at the club right now. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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6 hours ago, vikingTON said:

I seem to recall Grimshaw being given pelters for being not up to speed in the first few games that he played, so quite why we're jumping straight to the conclusion about more recent additions is questionable. If Morton fans cannot take a look at the overall trajectory of the first team over the past 15 months, trust the manager to get most decisions right and therefore not fling their toys around about an away draw at Championship level then we'll be short of one excellent manager very shortly. That's the reality of the situation. 

That doesn't mean no criticism, ever, but there's a time and a place to do it that isn't completely foolish and self-defeating. Friday night journey or not, people should be able to reflect in the cold light of day on their response - and no burning sense of injustice for McGrattan or any other player is worth undermining the foundations being built at the club right now. 

Fair post. I'm fuming with Ali Crawford's performances so far. But I was at Cappielow for the first time in a few years for Grimshaw's second appearance. He looked like he'd stepped out of the South of Scotland league or something. Now he's certainly in the top five players in the entire division. There's no need for snap judgement when the overall trend is upward.

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On 3/14/2023 at 10:22 AM, BishopBrennan said:

Bookings for coaching staff don't accumulate, so he can get booked every week and it won't have any impact. 

 

Not sure that is accurate.

Lee Johnson at Hibs is now serving a 1 match touchline ban for accumulating 4 bookings this season.

Still would rather not stifle Dougie's passion.

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14 hours ago, vikingTON said:

I seem to recall Grimshaw being given pelters for being not up to speed in the first few games that he played, so quite why we're jumping straight to the conclusion about more recent additions is questionable. If Morton fans cannot take a look at the overall trajectory of the first team over the past 15 months, trust the manager to get most decisions right and therefore not fling their toys around about an away draw at Championship level then we'll be short of one excellent manager very shortly. That's the reality of the situation. 

That doesn't mean no criticism, ever, but there's a time and a place to do it that isn't completely foolish and self-defeating. Friday night journey or not, people should be able to reflect in the cold light of day on their response - and no burning sense of injustice for McGrattan or any other player is worth undermining the foundations being built at the club right now. 

That’s a fair assessment. Dougie persevered with Grimshaw and others until they came good, and has also eventually dropped others such as Efe and Kabia after giving them a good run, so he’s earned the right to the same approach with his latest recruits, especially with the difficult task he’s had of replacing Strapp and Quitongo.

As you say, Dougie’s done a fantastic job overall and we should trust him to continue / complete the job.

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