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The reasoning is blatantly obvious. Imrie was unhappy with McGrattan's end product - which he called out several times before the transfer window opened. With an enhanced budget, he has moved to upgrade his squad players who are expected to deliver that quality instead. On paper, the difference in expected quality is clear. He's not going to chuck them all overboard after a few games because of you or Dunning's constant braying.

Given that poor finishing rather than a lack of pressing was quite clearly the issue last night, it's not a problem that McGrattan is currently equipped to solve. Hopefully he will add that to his game, but we're not neglecting the next Haaland right now. 

The same 'promise of game time' line was spouted about Kabia and yet he was demonstrably shunted completely out of the picture, before leaving in January. Your 'common sense' hit take is therefore groundless pish. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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48 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Schwake was signed in the middle of June. If rumours are to be believed, Jack Hamilton would've re-signed if we had waited a wee bit longer. There would have been other options as well. 

I don't blame Imrie for wanting to get a goalkeeper in early enough. It's a tough thing to do to go with one proper first team keeper and get that selection right and he made a judgement. His signings have been, on the whole, excellent. And he's doing a tremendous job. I'm not weighing in with heavy criticism here, but I don't think he got this one right. Schwake hasn't been a key part of what we've achieved - I think he's held us back a bit (not by a massive amount, but we have some good Championship level players and he isn't one of them at this moment in time).

It's not totally a poor example. His footwork isn't great at that goal and it has a knock on effect on getting his hands down to it. A top goalkeeper doesn't concede that, the shot didn't have enough power for that. 

But we're not taking about the top level here - most Championship level goalkeepers would struggle with shots like that. So it's a good example of a difference between goalkeepers at our level and higher level goalkeepers, but not something to beat Schwake up with really. Although, it would be helpful if he was better at things like that to make up for some of his more obvious weaknesses. 

Its a poor example. You could have used others.

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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Schwake has been absolutely nowhere near good enough to be able to get away with repeatedly giving goals away, and it’s a regular occurrence now. If you’re a goalkeeper and you’re shipping poor goals, it quickly becomes a matter of you not being good enough rather than “mistakes” - harsh that may be, but that’s the nature of the role. Not making “mistakes” is the most fundamental requirement of a goalkeeper.

If you’re going to just have one ‘keeper it absolutely has to be an established quantity or an exceptional prospect worth the risk; Schwake is neither. We’re really not talking the next Casillas or Gordon here, guys who were very clear special at a young age, we’re talking a guy who might or might not be on Livvi’s bench next season at best. I don’t really care about his “development” either, that’s his own club’s problem, not ours, and frankly I don’t think the goalkeeping position is one where you want to assume that risk on someone else’s behalf…unless, again, you know you’re getting something very special, and something special Schwake quite patently isn’t. It’s not ideal to have a manager being as critical of a player, but at the same time you simply can’t be doing what Schwake has been doing, especially that nonsense last night, and not expect some form of criticism. We need an upgrade for next season.

Elsewhere, it simply wasn’t good enough, and it doesn’t really matter what the result could or should have been. There’s no prizes for that, and it’s getting a bit tiring hearing such things - we’ve played 15 away games and won only 3 of them, it’s not good enough to be wanting plaudits when you’re unable to win games of football, and that’s a thing this team is increasingly incapable of doing. Over the last couple of months we’ve been getting told that numerous rotten performances were perfectly fine, actually, and that if x, y or z happened things would have been different rather than acknowledging any agency in the matter, we’ve had players timewasting in an insipid 0-0 draw with Partick at Cappielow, and we’re also a seeing players in the paper effectively saying they’ve been told the pressure is off as they’ve reached their target for the season…which wouldn’t be a problem if it wasn’t very fuckin obvious that there’s been a significant drop off in the manner games are being approached in. 

If Dougie is going to insist on taking that approach and on nonsense like playing Blues in every minute of every game, shoehorning his mate (who I actually do think could play a useful part if he was utilised better) into the team, picking Calvin fuckin Miller over Lewis McGrattan and refusing to use his subs, then I’m not really interested in any gripes or excuses from him. Either he stops fucking about and learns lessons that should have been learned long ago, or he doesn’t.
 

Since beating Cove away back in November, we’ve won a sum total of 3 league matches and that’s not a record that can be excused away or mitigated by could’ves and should’ves. It’s not good enough and it needs to be addressed.

AWMSC

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15 minutes ago, port-ton said:

Hamilton was waiting to see if St Johnstone were relegated as they would be offering him a deal if so and he wouldn't be resigning with us. They stayed up and he agreed to resign with us the same week Dougie's budget was slashed and our offer to Hamilton was reduced so he rejected it. Schwake was always the back up and cheaper option to Hamilton and he was brought in later that same week. 

What I heard was that after that Hamilton came back to us and was ready to accept what we were offering, but we were already signed Schwake by that point. No idea if that's true, but in any case Schwake was never going to be the one and only option available to us. 

 

10 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

You do not get as solid a defensive record as we have this season, without a goalkeeper who is fundamentally competent at their job. It is an integral part of the defensive unit.

Who are these objectively good players - ones that other teams in the division would have signed and put in their starting eleven? Strapp and Grimshaw are the only two standouts. Some of our key players were cast-offs from Queen's Park over the summer, and while Oakley has been excellent, it was almost certainly a scramble between ourselves and Hamilton - bottom of the table - to sign him at the time of his departure. Nobody was swooping for Muirhead last summer given his record in front of goal. Baird is with us and Ayr fans prefer to have Sean fucking McGinty instead - while they're wrong on that score, it underlines that he's a solid Championship option and nothing more than that.

There is a huge amount of revisionism on display here. People have forgotten the absolute nick the club was in last summer, and have also forgotten the historic level of a group of players who are performing near their peak under Imrie. 

 

Yeah, that's a lot of circling around to show absolutely nothing. And then, to finish, another incorrect appeal to revisionism - I don't even disagree with most of it. 

Let's be clear, I think Imrie is doing an excellent job. I tipped us for a relegation battle at the start of the season because I thought with the budget on offer it would be a tough job to stay up. Even with the improvements in budget, as far as I'm concerned, Imrie has already achieved his main aim (40+ points) this season. I'm also not arguing that Imrie hasn't been getting a lot out of this squad - for the most part he's had them playing as a very tight unit. 

Our defensive record this season is good. Not outstanding, but good. Slightly better than the last couple of seasons, slightly worse than under Duffy (for example). I'd argue that having a well drilled, disciplined team is the main factor in this. I'd also say that Schwake is far from being wildly out of his depth. We've had worse - his level of competence has been above what the likes of Ramsbottom and Scully showed with us. But he's not one of our better players, and I think this has become more and more clear as the season has gone on. 

I posted this on here at the beginning of October:

'I'm not quite as optimistic about Schwake so far. There's loads that's good about his game, but I think he also shows his age at times. That's not really a criticism, because it's what he's here to learn (be more commanding, etc.).'

My view hasn't changed very much in the 5 or 6 months since - I wasn't terribly optimistic based on what I had seen that he'd be the goalkeeper we needed throughout the season. And, without being completely awful, I don't think he has been. 

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You still haven't given an example of these great players that we're apparently packed with in the squad - being cruelly betrayed by our keeper every week. Nor have you explained why signing Schwake last summer could be considered the club getting it wrong. We have already easily surpassed the goal set when he joined the club and he has been an important part of that. 

I'm sceptical that he's even close to ready to step up to a higher level and there are undoubtedly issues in his game, but that's not what you claimed. There is indeed revisionism - moving the goalposts, call it what you want - about the squad and the actual expectations set for this season. If Imrie was having a go at some fans last night then no wonder. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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2 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

You still haven't given an example of these great players that we're apparently packed with in the squad - being cruelly betrayed by our keeper every week. Nor have you explained why signing Schwake last summer could be considered the club getting it wrong. We have already easily surpassed the goal set when he joined the club and he has been an important part of that. 

I'm sceptical that he's even close to ready to step up to a higher level and there are undoubtedly issues in his game, but that's not what you claimed. There is indeed revisionism - moving the goalposts, call it what you want - about the squad and the actual expectations set for this season. If Imrie was having a go at some fans last night then no wonder. 

Imrie was pretty harsh on Schwake last night. So I don't get your point there. I'm also not saying it's a huge error. I think on reflection it's a case of Schwake just not being quite ready for what we might have been capable of as a squad this season. I also think he would've been even more exposed if Imrie didn't get so many other things right. 

It's not revisionism or moving the goalposts to suggest that some elements of what we've done to get where we are have been better than others. I don't think Schwake is at the level of players like Grimshaw, Strapp, Crawford, or Oakley. Nor do I think he's been as good as several others in the squad. I'm not ever been the bigger fan of Baird, for example, but he has shown himself to be a more capable player at this level. Talk of 'these great players' is straw man stuff. Your twisting what I'm saying either because you don't understand it or don't want to understand it. 

 

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43 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Imrie was pretty harsh on Schwake last night. So I don't get your point there. I'm also not saying it's a huge error. I think on reflection it's a case of Schwake just not being quite ready for what we might have been capable of as a squad this season. I also think he would've been even more exposed if Imrie didn't get so many other things right. It's not revisionism or moving the goalposts to suggest that some elements of what we've done to get where we are have been better than others.

You didn't say that Schwake isn't good enough to sustain a promotion challenge this season - you said the club got it wrong by signing him last summer. We had the lowest budget in the division at that time and were favourites on most markets for relegation.

The task for Imrie and Schwake was to defy that benchmark - and they have both effortlessly done that. So you are indeed shifting the goalposts by claiming that we should have signed promotion-ready players instead - when that was not even remotely the purpose of the squad being assembled or indeed the budget available at the club. 

Oakley was available to leave Inverness in January and yet none of the other top half clubs were linked with him. He's been doing superb since joining us, but that's a testament to the manager rather than some obvious star talent we've added to the squad. Other than Grimshaw and (in theory) Ali Crawford, it's the same story with the rest of the squad and Schwake is in that category too. When the club sets its goals for next season, then we'll have to decide who is equipped for that hopefully much higher benchmark for success. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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2 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

You didn't say that Schwake isn't good enough to sustain a promotion challenge this season - you said the club got it wrong by signing him last summer. We had the lowest budget in the division at that time and we're favourites on most markets for relegation.

The task for Imrie and Schwake was to defy that benchmark - and they have effortlessly done that. So you are indeed shifting the goalposts by claiming that we should have signed promotion-ready players instead - when that was not even remotely the purpose of the squad being assembled or the budget available to do so. 

Oakley was available to leave Inverness in January and yet none of the other top half clubs were linked with him. He's been doing superb since joining us, but that's as much a testament to the manager as some obvious talent we've added to the squad. Other than Grimshaw and (in theory) Ali Crawford, that's the same with the rest of the squad and Schwake is in the exact same category. When the club sets it's goals for next season, then we'll have to decide who is equipped for that hopefully much higher benchmark for success. 

I also think, as I indicated, that Schwake would struggle to help keep us in this division if the back four were also at his level. I don't think Schwake has managed the step up at this point in his career as well as many would have hoped he would. I think Imrie will be included in that and that's what I meant by getting it wrong. I think the assumption from Imrie, people at Livi, and many others was that he would've been better than he has been. I think the hope for Schwake and this loan was that he'd be a goalkeeper much closer to challenging for the number one position at Livi next season - I don't think it's panned out that way. 

I'm not shifting any goalposts here. Bottom line - I don't think Schwake has been as good for us as everyone hoped and that the judgement on his ability to step up was wrong. 

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Imrie said just last week in the Tele that he'd be delighted to have Schwake back at the club next season, so your thoughts are not really supported by evidence. 

I agree that if you compare Schwake's performances to Robbie McCrorie for example - who also made a fair few howlers - I'm not convinced that there's the same potential to play at a higher level than this. It's not zero with Schwake but it's a higher risk bet if you're a top flight club compared to McCrorie.  

But whether he goes on to compete for the Livingston jersey or not, Imrie and the club have got exactly what they needed from Schwake in this campaign. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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Let's be clear here. Over the piece Schwake has been good this season. He's made a few mistakes but the outcry over last night is over the top. For the clangers he's also made some fantastic saves including Raith and Ayr away. I'd be interested to look at the goals conceded and mistakes he's made and analyse the lead up to each one. I guarantee there's been opportunities further up the pitch to stop these goals - making a pass, stopping a cross etc. Being a Keeper and being the last line of defence is a tough one as anywhere else on the pitch you have someone behind you to support and obviously a keeper doesn't. I'm not arguing that the mistake last night wasn't a fucking howler and cost us 3 points however let's be realistic, remember the level we are playing at and the quality of players we have had to target in the different stages of this season which has been dependent on finances. 

Let's give Dougie and the boys the benefit of the whole season before we start judging them.

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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I think Imrie outting the young keeper is a cause for concern. Very unlike the Dougie that we know, but also having a few digs at the fans in recent weeks will no doubt leave a sour taste for some.

It was an absolute clanger last night from Schwake, who for the majority has been solid. Dougie's post match reaction was one that lacked professionalism and Crawford's inability to put the ball away was way more concerning to me than young Brian's mistake. 

Crawford has potentially cost us 4 points since signing, last night and the absolute sitter against QP that any "SPL" player should be burying.

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The SPL has been gone for almost 10 years. I know it doesn't make any difference to the above point but it does rip my knitting a wee bit.

No one still calls this the first division.

 

Peter Weatherson is the greatest player since Ritchie, and should be assigned 'chairman for life' 


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2 hours ago, EanieMeany said:

He quite literally threw the ball into the goal in the last game at Raith.

He also made a great save at the end.

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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39 minutes ago, ChampTon said:

I think Imrie outting the young keeper is a cause for concern. Very unlike the Dougie that we know, but also having a few digs at the fans in recent weeks will no doubt leave a sour taste for some.

It was an absolute clanger last night from Schwake, who for the majority has been solid. Dougie's post match reaction was one that lacked professionalism and Crawford's inability to put the ball away was way more concerning to me than young Brian's mistake. 

Crawford has potentially cost us 4 points since signing, last night and the absolute sitter against QP that any "SPL" player should be burying.

I'm ok with Dougie calling players out. Find it refreshing and makes a difference from the likes of McPherson and Duffy defending his boys to the hilt regardless of how they've performed which we had to put up with for years.

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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Did Imrie really out Schwake tho? I mean anyone with eyes could see he's made a howler last night. It looked horrendous at the game but watching it back was grim.  

I'm pretty sure Brian has had as many clean sheets as any other keeper in the league and I can certainly remember him making some big saves. Like most who play at our level, he is capable of the odd howler. Let's not look back too fondly, Jack Hamilton was equally inconsistent.

I'm a bit more frustrated by the missed chances. Even without the penalty, 3 or 4 if those are very good opportunities. 

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4 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

I'm ok with Dougie calling players out. Find it refreshing and makes a difference from the likes of McPherson and Duffy defending his boys to the hilt regardless of how they've performed which we had to put up with for years.

Agreed. He also said that he's had a good season on the club interview. All players respond differently to praise and criticism and I thought that the comments were fair overall. A manager needs to find a way to improve players so this could be the making of Schwake - a young player needs to realise that you can't make mistakes and expect them to be forgotten about. 

 

 

4 hours ago, MarTon80 said:

Did Imrie really out Schwake tho? I mean anyone with eyes could see he's made a howler last night. It looked horrendous at the game but watching it back was grim.  

I'm pretty sure Brian has had as many clean sheets as any other keeper in the league and I can certainly remember him making some big saves. Like most who play at our level, he is capable of the odd howler. Let's not look back too fondly, Jack Hamilton was equally inconsistent.

I'm a bit more frustrated by the missed chances. Even without the penalty, 3 or 4 if those are very good opportunities. 

Aye, a keepers mistakes are more noticeable and get more attention but hitting the ball straight at the keeper when one on one is just as bad. 

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If our forwards had turned up and buried the 3-4 massive chances they were presented with (including the abject attempt at a penalty) - Schwake’s howler would be looked upon as nothing more than a minor blip in a solid overall team performance. It’s only become so significant because it cost us points - points which should already have been cast-iron secure long before that point in the game.

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30 minutes ago, SassenachTon said:

If our forwards had turned up and buried the 3-4 massive chances they were presented with (including the abject attempt at a penalty) - Schwake’s howler would be looked upon as nothing more than a minor blip in a solid overall team performance. It’s only become so significant because it cost us points - points which should already have been cast-iron secure long before that point in the game.

Brian's mistake was indeed just one of many factors that combined to ensure we didn't come away with all three points. Not taking some of our numerous golden opportunities, inspired goalkeeping, and sheer bad luck, e.g., Oakley's effort off the underside of the bar near the end, were at least as influential in the final result.

Had we come away with a 1-3 or 1-4 win, as we certainly could and probably should have done, Brian's howler would have been a cause for concern for sure, but mostly would have been a footnote in an otherwise comfortable win.

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