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We need to talk about the Renfrewshire Cup


TRVMP

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I'm not for starting a new topic for it but we need to talk about Rangers* totally bottling a European cup final. It was really good. 

 

Peter Weatherson is the greatest player since Ritchie, and should be assigned 'chairman for life' 


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On 5/17/2022 at 6:45 PM, TRVMP said:

I've been looking a bit more into this. The last version of the Scottish Football Almanac that I have is 2016-17. In that year the following were played:

East of Scotland Shield
Fife Cup
Glasgow Cup (as a U-17 competition)

One fixture of the previous season's Forfarshire Cup was played in summer 2016, a 5-0 win for Dundee United at Brechin; no other fixtures for either that previous or contemporary season were played.

The Renfrewshire Cup and Stirlingshire Cup were in abeyance, and the Ayrshire Cup and Lanarkshire Cups were completely discontinued.

It's time to bring it back.

The Renny's structure, as I'm sure we all remember, pitted the two finalists from the Renfrewshire Victoria Cup - an amateur competition - against Morton and St. Mirren, for a spot in the final. As far as I can see from the excellent Scottish Football Historical Archive (http://sfha.org.uk/renfrewshirecup.htm), it has been this way since 1928-29, the last time three rounds were played.

Back in the early 1920s there were four rounds and of course back in ye even older days there were several clubs involved - 18 in the 1883-84 season and even more before that, peaking at around thirty.

Some of the reports I’ve unearthed covering Renfrewshire Cup games before 1900 are incredible.

Games being replayed after protests about goals being allowed to stand (or not) poor light, crap pitch conditions (not to mention the odd riot and pitch invasion) and ties needing 4 or 5 replays to settle them. 

Abercorn and Port Glasgow were particularly huffy in those days, with one Morton v Port tie constantly interrupted by Port fans, forcing a number of abandoned games (with Morton leading) - until the tie finally produced a game which ended with a Port win.

 

Also a good time to remember that St. Mirren withdrew in the 1990s after losing a home semi final 1-0 to Greenock amateurs Bellaire.

McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up.
Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control...

That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie.

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53 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said:

Some of the reports I’ve unearthed covering Renfrewshire Cup games before 1900 are incredible.

Games being replayed after protests about goals being allowed to stand (or not) poor light, crap pitch conditions (not to mention the odd riot and pitch invasion) and ties needing 4 or 5 replays to settle them. 

Abercorn and Port Glasgow were particularly huffy in those days, with one Morton v Port tie constantly interrupted by Port fans, forcing a number of abandoned games (with Morton leading) - until the tie finally produced a game which ended with a Port win.

Also a good time to remember that St. Mirren withdrew in the 1990s after losing a home semi final 1-0 to Greenock amateurs Bellaire.

I've not read any full reports but this page has some very tantalizing sentences:

In 1883: "13 Oct Sir John Maxwell v Johnstone Athletic 6-3 Johnstone left the ground before the finish and the tie ordered to be replayed" (Johnstone won the replay)

1886: "23 Jan Port-Glasgow Athletic v St Mirren 4-2 protest as there was no referee and a friendly played instead" (The dirty wee Port won the replay 4-1, presumably with a referee on the premises)

On one dramatic day in 1890: 
"22 Nov Clippens Thistle v Neilston 4-3 abandoned due to a dispute, but the tie was awarded to Clippens"
"22 Nov Arthurlie v Barrhead Corinthinans 7-0 protest that the match finished in partial darkness upheld" (The 'Rinths took advantage of the replay to keep the score down to 6-0)

A large number of ties were cancelled because the visiting team turned up late, but were instead played as friendlies, the prospect of dodging a few hundred grim-faced welders who'd paid to watch football on the way out of the ground not being an appealing one.

Several teams discovered a wheeze where you could join the Renfrewshire FA after the tournament started and thus get a bye to the Second Round. 

In 1880-81, one such team - Shawlands Athletic - made it all the way to the semi-finals after winnng a single game. They skipped the first round, they beat fellow bye outfit Wellington Park 4-1 in the second round, they drew 2-2 in the semis with Pollok but both teams qualified because Barrhead were disqualified due to... well, that's its own story*... and then finally St. Mirren ousted Shawlands in the semis before losing to Arthurlie two weeks later.

Morton, for their part, went out to Johnstone Athletic in the first round.

*Drink it in:

image.png

It is a matter of civilizational urgency that this tournament be resurrected, and played in exactly this format.

 

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There’s some folk who try to act all high and mighty about it but the Renfrewshire Cup is great. A pre-season match with a large dose of vitriol, what’s not to love?

Also, I may be totally misremembering some other fact, but isn’t the Cup itself supposed to be one of the tallest in football? I do remember it being fuckin massive but maybe that’s just because I was wee at the time.

AWMSC

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29 minutes ago, TRVMP said:

I've not read any full reports but this page has some very tantalizing sentences:

 

image.png

It is a matter of civilizational urgency that this tournament be resurrected, and played in exactly this format.

 

I love stuff like this.

1882-83 we needed 5 games played over 3 months before eventually getting put out of the 2nd round by Thornliebank -

2-2 at Scapa.
3-1 away win but they protested about us having an ineligible player.
2-1 win at Scapa - but they protested about the poor light.
2-2 at Scapa - we protested about one of their goals AND the game ending too early (so the next game was moved to a neutral ground.
1-3 defeat at Cartbank, Johnstone.

We also stuffed Howwood 21-0 at Scapa in the 2nd round in 1886. Unsurprisingly, there is no record of the scorers. I've yet to find a bigger Morton win.

 

The Greenock Charity Cup was just as chaotic with (now defunct) local sides taking the huff and refusing replays.

McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up.
Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control...

That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie.

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14 minutes ago, EanieMeany said:

There’s some folk who try to act all high and mighty about it but the Renfrewshire Cup is great. A pre-season match with a large dose of vitriol, what’s not to love?

Also, I may be totally misremembering some other fact, but isn’t the Cup itself supposed to be one of the tallest in football? I do remember it being fuckin massive but maybe that’s just because I was wee at the time.

Dougie-Imrie-holds-the-Renfrewshire-cup-after-defeating-St-Mirren.jpg

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20 minutes ago, EanieMeany said:

There’s some folk who try to act all high and mighty about it but the Renfrewshire Cup is great. A pre-season match with a large dose of vitriol, what’s not to love?

Also, I may be totally misremembering some other fact, but isn’t the Cup itself supposed to be one of the tallest in football? I do remember it being fuckin massive but maybe that’s just because I was wee at the time.

I can't say where it ranks globally but it's an amazing piece of work:

Dougie Imrie targets first division glory after helping Morton to Renfrewshire  Cup bragging rights over St Mirren - Daily Record

The trophy's not bad either.

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Actually, I might be thinking of another trophy that is/was on display in Cappielow, although it was so long ago I seen it I can't really remember and I'm half-doubting myself on it, but I am pretty sure there is a really, really fuckin huge trophy in one of the cabinets? Might even be one that sits on a plinth type thing, but who knows, maybe I'm just entirely misremembering something from years ago.

AWMSC

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13 minutes ago, EanieMeany said:

Actually, I might be thinking of another trophy that is/was on display in Cappielow, although it was so long ago I seen it I can't really remember and I'm half-doubting myself on it, but I am pretty sure there is a really, really fuckin huge trophy in one of the cabinets? Might even be one that sits on a plinth type thing, but who knows, maybe I'm just entirely misremembering something from years ago.

Could be a testimonial trophy - it used to be a thing to have a trophy for the winners of these games (and maybe still is).

Allan McGraw's trophy had to be awarded to us after we beat St. Mirren on penalites in 1989 (the skunks forgot to bring the Renfrewshire Cup down with them).

We should have Jimmy Simpson's trophy too (although Rangers won that game 5-2, Graeme Souness handed the cup back after the game).

Or maybe it's the Arran Tournament and we were never allowed back on the ferries to return it. 😁

McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up.
Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control...

That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie.

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3 hours ago, EanieMeany said:

Actually, I might be thinking of another trophy that is/was on display in Cappielow, although it was so long ago I seen it I can't really remember and I'm half-doubting myself on it, but I am pretty sure there is a really, really fuckin huge trophy in one of the cabinets? Might even be one that sits on a plinth type thing, but who knows, maybe I'm just entirely misremembering something from years ago.

I remember being shown this on a tour years ago. Think it was the Ambulance Cup or something similar from around 1919.

I'd love to have you both for dinner
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1 hour ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

The War trophy maybe?

Ahh, yes, this sounds familiar. It’s properly huge and also a really lovely bit of silverware, if memory serves. Now that you mention that’s what it is, I remember being struck by the grandeur of the trophy for a relatively minor competition, although I guess it was maybe a much bigger deal at the time than I’m aware of.

The RC trophy is a belter too, seems a real shame not to compete for it for that reason alone. Can’t think of many other trophies that are a match for its intricacy.

AWMSC

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On that subject, I've always thought the Bundesliga trophy is absolutely shan, and so was the Jules Rimet trophy for that matter. The Libertadores looks like a Soviet TV logo. (The Copa Sudamericana, a more modern trophy, follows the same theme but actually looks decent.) It's very difficult to get non-traditional trophies right. The big old trophies are generally the best ones.

The Premier League trophy looks like a Chinese knockoff of an actual trophy. I imagine Chinese knockoffs of the Premier League trophy look pretty realistic.

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